WILL THERE BE A RAPTURE?

[nathan3]

The subject is set before Matthew 24: 40-44 ; in verses 23 & 24. And verse 15 etc. So the one taken in the field, is taken by the Antichrist. he is the subject. You don't want to be taken.


Matthew 24:
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

A lot of people say, '' I want to be the first one taken" ; by who? By Antichrist ??????
That is where the rapture teaching will, lead the Christian. It's better to follow what Christ said to the letter. All of it, that way , you can't be deceived... I can't even read that well, but I can at least follow a simple subject of what I'm reading.



God even speaks out fly away doctrine in Ezekiel 13: ( read it in the King James version. Because the newer versions changed it.. )

 

[Blain]

Aren't all believers empowered by the HS?

When is this going to happen? exact date would be nice, but if not, give a generality of when it will happen, like 3 years? 10 years, or 20 years? You can always say something will happen in the future and never be wrong as long as you say its future. We all know it's future, the bible tells this.

No not in this way, these ppl were filled with more of the holy spirit than even thought possible. They were not angels but they seemed to not even be like humans either. I only knew them as holy ppl, and the man who was contridicting and blaspheming the bible in front of us i believe was the man of sin. And as for the rapture dream I only know Jesus made it clear to us time was up. For long ppl say Oh the rapture is going to happen.... it could happen any day.... But lets be honest here, none of us expect it to happen today or tomorrow, but in this dream Jesus made it clear to us that it was going to happen that very day, we just did not know the monent it would happen. The minute, the second the hour, we were just so happy the wait was finally over. Now i expect it very very soon, hopefully within two weeks. But i believe this dream was Jesus telling me time is really up. And in a way this dream has already come true for me, because i expect it within two weeks but i do not know the day or moment or second. So to me that day in the ream is the two weeks. Of course its very possible i am wrong, but its also very possible i am right.

 

[Blain]

Also if you have not noticed scripture is rapidly being fulfilled. Obama already contridicted the bible. Look it up on youtube. Plus the chip, which is to be on your right hand or apparently your forehead. I mean study revealtions then study and search on obama and the LEGIT youtube videos of him speaking, then compare it to revelations. God sometimes makes things right in front of our faces but we refuse to accept it

 

[nathan3]

Don’t know where they got it from,

It started with a sick women in the year 1830 . Her name was Margaret MacDonald. a couple of preachers were near by when she was having her sick trance, ( which she said felt very evil at first ). These two preachers decided to make it into what it is today. And now you have most the world ignoring what the Bible teaches about what will happen; and are confused because of this false teaching.. I'm sure Satan loves it though: because when you know the truth of the matter, that teaching leads, to worshiping Satan. Many are ignorant of that fact, because, biblical illiteracy abounds.

There was only two serious works done about the history of the Rapture teaching.

The Rapture Plot: by Dave MacPherson. &

The incredible coverup: by Dave MacPherson

 

[Bookends]

No not in this way, these ppl were filled with more of the holy spirit than even thought possible. They were not angels but they seemed to not even be like humans either. I only knew them as holy ppl, and the man who was contridicting and blaspheming the bible in front of us i believe was the man of sin. And as for the rapture dream I only know Jesus made it clear to us time was up. For long ppl say Oh the rapture is going to happen.... it could happen any day.... But lets be honest here, none of us expect it to happen today or tomorrow, but in this dream Jesus made it clear to us that it was going to happen that very day, we just did not know the monent it would happen. The minute, the second the hour, we were just so happy the wait was finally over. Now i expect it very very soon, hopefully within two weeks. But i believe this dream was Jesus telling me time is really up. And in a way this dream has already come true for me, because i expect it within two weeks but i do not know the day or moment or second. So to me that day in the ream is the two weeks. Of course its very possible i am wrong, but its also very possible i am right.

so you see, i could never prove you wrong, because you can't put a date on it...but would you say you were wrong if the rapture doesn't happen in the next 2 years?

 

[Bookends]

Also if you have not noticed scripture is rapidly being fulfilled. Obama already contridicted the bible. Look it up on youtube. Plus the chip, which is to be on your right hand or apparently your forehead. I mean study revealtions then study and search on obama and the LEGIT youtube videos of him speaking, then compare it to revelations. God sometimes makes things right in front of our faces but we refuse to accept it

He not the only leader through-out history to contradict the bible.

 

[superdave5221]

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness.

Romans 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Romans 13:4b. . .But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil

Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Colossians 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh unpon the children of disobedience:

Now if someone wants to say that the "wrath of God" is not the same thing as the Tribulation period. . I would say what is poured out during the Tribulation period? . . .I would say God's anger, i.e. wrath!!! and go study Revelation.

Hello Peaceful, you must consider context in verse. Obviously, the wrath of God in all of the verses you presented is the wrath associated with the separation of man and God because of sin. Until we receive the saving blood of Jesus Christ, the wrath of God abides on us. In the John 3:36 verse, God's wrath is in the present tense. Was John and Jesus living in the Tribulation? In the Romans 2:5 verse, anybody reading this verse and has a impenitent heart is already storing up God's wrath, and doesn't even have to wait for the Tribulation! The day of wrath is the day of the White Throne Judgement, not the Tribulation, which clearly lasts more than one day.

Obviously God has revealed His wrath in history, against the nation of Israel, and her enemies. And, truly, the Tribulation period will be a period of historic wrath poured out on the earth. BUT, it is not the wrath that abides on sinners who have not received Christ as their Savior, which is the context of the passages you quote.

 

[Chr]

[SUP]13 [/SUP]But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.[SUP][b][/SUP]
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Therefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

[SUP] [/SUP]

Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— [SUP]52 [/SUP]in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. [SUP]53 [/SUP]For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. [SUP]54 [/SUP]So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”[SUP][g][/SUP]
[SUP]55 [/SUP]“O Death, where is your sting?[SUP][h][/SUP]
O Hades, where is your victory?”[SUP][i][/SUP]

1 Corinthians 15:52-55

yes there will be a rapture in the greek harpazo (being caught up, snatched away)

 

[Chr]

I copied and pasted that.To answer any questions about the [g] etc

 

[Blain]

so you see, i could never prove you wrong, because you can't put a date on it...but would you say you were wrong if the rapture doesn't happen in the next 2 years?

No i would not be wrong, because his time is different than ours. We only will know the season not the day or time or hour.

 

[Blain]

He not the only leader through-out history to contradict the bible.

True, but also he is the only one i have ever heard of of being openly called the messiah. He neither conforms or rejects it, but eventually someone will raise the question to him if he is the awaited messiah. His response to that will decide his fate

 

[peterT]

lets squash the gnat! and swallowing camel is against the dietary laws.

Peter

since you know what the truth is then you are obligated to teach it.

As you are aware of the Lord speaks of a resurrection and not a rapture.

I look forward for your understanding on the topic as I do all who agree or don't.

I don’t to use the word rapture but resurrection when I preach the gospel , but when talking to most Christians I try to become all things to all men, and say I know what you mean when you say “rapture”.

Most Christians just see the word rapture as Jesus coming to get them in the clouds to meet him in the air at the last day.

strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel I don’t know what you mean when you say

“lets squash the gnat! and swallowing camel is against the dietary laws”

strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel I see it as choking at something tiny like a “word” but swallowing something big like a pre-trib rapture doctrine

 

[peterT]

lets squash the gnat! and swallowing camel is against the dietary laws.

Peter

since you know what the truth is then you are obligated to teach it.

As you are aware of the Lord speaks of a resurrection and not a rapture.

I look forward for your understanding on the topic as I do all who agree or don't.

I don’t to use the word rapture but resurrection when I preachthe gospel , but when talking to most Christians I try to become all things to all men, and say I know what you mean when you say “rapture”.

Most Christians justsee the word rapture as Jesus coming to get them in the clouds to meet him in the air at the last day.

strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel I don’t know what you mean when you say

“lets squash thegnat! and swallowing camel is against the dietary laws”

strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel I see it as choking atsomething tiny like a “word” but swallowing something big like a pre-trib rapture doctrine

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Hello Peaceful, you must consider context in verse. Obviously, the wrath of God in all of the verses you presented is the wrath associated with the separation of man and God because of sin. Until we receive the saving blood of Jesus Christ, the wrath of God abides on us. In the John 3:36 verse, God's wrath is in the present tense. Was John and Jesus living in the Tribulation? In the Romans 2:5 verse, anybody reading this verse and has a impenitent heart is already storing up God's wrath, and doesn't even have to wait for the Tribulation! The day of wrath is the day of the White Throne Judgement, not the Tribulation, which clearly lasts more than one day.

Obviously God has revealed His wrath in history, against the nation of Israel, and her enemies. And, truly, the Tribulation period will be a period of historic wrath poured out on the earth. BUT, it is not the wrath that abides on sinners who have not received Christ as their Savior, which is the context of the passages you quote.

Hey, dave. . . .Who is the wrath of God poured out on in Revelation?

 

[peterT]

That passage can be applied to different trials and tribulations believers experience in their daily Christian living, not the 7-year Tribulation.
Jesus did not say we will not be persecuted for our faith...
Matt 5:10-12
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

The Tribulation will be God's judgment upon the wicked and also the last chance for repentance. There will be no church-age believer who has been washed by the blood of Christ on earth during Jacob's trouble; faithful is He who has promised. Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

What 7 year tribulation? and where did you get that from?

Jesus said

Matt15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand.

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

just look at the verse in Daniel that Jesus spoke about, and you will see the abomination of desolation is in the middle of that week, in the middle of the seven years.

Thus making the great tribulation 3 ½ years not seven years.

 

[peterT]

Hey, dave. . . .Who is the wrath of God poured out on in Revelation?

I hope you don’t mind if I answer that peacefulbelieve

The wrath of God comes on the wicked people that have the mark of the beast NOT on God’s children

We are in the heavens when the 7 plagues come "AFTER" getting the victory over the beast and his mark.

There we are stand on the sea of glass AFTER getting the victory over the beast. Then the seven angels having the seven last plagues pour out the wrath of God upon the people that have the mark of the beast.

Rv15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

As you can see WE are in the heavens AFTER getting the victory over the beast, and his make and before the wrath is poured out on the people that have the mark of the beast.


Rv16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

 

[nathan3]

[SUP]13 [/SUP]But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.[SUP][b][/SUP]
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Therefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

[SUP] [/SUP]

Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— [SUP]52 [/SUP]in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. [SUP]53 [/SUP]For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. [SUP]54 [/SUP]So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”[SUP][g][/SUP]
[SUP]55 [/SUP]“O Death, where is your sting?[SUP][h][/SUP]
O Hades, where is your victory?”[SUP][i][/SUP]

1 Corinthians 15:52-55

yes there will be a rapture in the greek harpazo (being caught up, snatched away)

you are given the subject, there, and your still missed it : / ........ the subject is the change in bodies, at Christ return, Not a taking of people off some where. But the change at the last or final trump. that is the 7th, which is the last. What happens at the final trump is Christ returns to this earth, after, the 6th trump, which Paul taught in 2nd thess 2, you cant understand 1 thess with out 2nd thess.,

 

[nathan3]

We are in the heavens when the 7 plagues come "AFTER" getting the victory over the beast and his mark.

we are not in the heavens when that takes place, everyone will be here and taken care of. God's wrath is for the evil, not the good, you got that much right. But taking people some where is not nessesary and not written in the order of events given. Christ returns here to establish his Kingdom to reign 1000 yrs. etc.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Hello Peaceful, you must consider context in verse. Obviously, the wrath of God in all of the verses you presented is the wrath associated with the separation of man and God because of sin. Until we receive the saving blood of Jesus Christ, the wrath of God abides on us. In the John 3:36 verse, God's wrath is in the present tense. Was John and Jesus living in the Tribulation? In the Romans 2:5 verse, anybody reading this verse and has a impenitent heart is already storing up God's wrath, and doesn't even have to wait for the Tribulation! The day of wrath is the day of the White Throne Judgement, not the Tribulation, which clearly lasts more than one day.

Obviously God has revealed His wrath in history, against the nation of Israel, and her enemies. And, truly, the Tribulation period will be a period of historic wrath poured out on the earth. BUT, it is not the wrath that abides on sinners who have not received Christ as their Savior, which is the context of the passages you quote.

Hey, dave. . . .The same Greek word used for "wrath" is used throughout. . . saved (kept safe) from wrath can't mean anything else but kept safe from wrath.

Who is the wrath of God poured out on in Revelation?

 

[peterT]

we are not in the heavens when that takes place, everyone will be here and taken care of. God's wrath is for the evil, not the good, you got that much right. But taking people some where is not nessesary and not written in the order of events given. Christ returns here to establish his Kingdom to reign 1000 yrs. etc.

Sorry bro but my Bible says we meet him in the air in the clouds.

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

And my bible says we are

stand on the sea of glass AFTER getting the victory over the beast. Then the seven angels having the seven last plagues pour out the wrath of God upon the people that have the mark of the beast.

Rv15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

As you can see WE are in the heavens somewhere in the air somewhere AFTER getting the victory over the beast, and his make and before the wrath is poured out on the people that have the mark of the beast.


Rv16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,


What does your Bible say?