WILL THERE BE A RAPTURE?
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This description actually spans a good bit of time. The rapture is included within that span of time.
See the chart attached in this post/thread:
Study: Order of Events
See the chart attached in this post/thread:
Study: Order of Events
P
2ND heaven - "in the sky" - "above the earth" - YES - whether 10 miles or 100 miles or ...
3RD heaven - NO
The two witnesses - that may be different - happens BEFORE the rapture.
3RD heaven - NO
The two witnesses - that may be different - happens BEFORE the rapture.
Where does it say that?
The tribulation is for 3 ½ years or 1260 days
Jesus comes immediately after the tribulation
The two end time prophets testify or prophecy for 1260 days, then the last trumpet sounds
So how does the happen before the coming in the clouds meeting the lord in the air?/ what some Christians call the rapture. How many resurrections are there immediately after the tribulation?
And where did you get that?
Called to the marriage supper of the lamb.
Standing on the sea of glass.
How do you know what kind of heaven that is?
If the dead rise first, and we are court up with them at the last trumpet, then according to my Bible we ascended up to HEAVEN in a cloud.
Show me in the scriptures were you got that from?
As I was driving one day I encountered a bumper sticker admonishing me: “WARNING! In the event of Rapture, this car will be driverless.” The strange belief in the Rapture teaches that some day (sooner rather than later), without warning, born-again Christians will begin to float up from the freeway, abandoned vehicles careening wildly. There will be airliners in the sky suddenly with no one at the controls! Presumably, God is removing these favored ones from earth to spare them the tribulation of the Anti-Christ which the rest of us will have to endure. Unfortunately the Rapture has been promoted widely by the Left Behind series of books that have sold over 70 million copies. The Rapture represents a radical misinterpretation of Scripture. I remember watching “Sixty Minutes”a year ago and was appalled to hear the announcer say that “the Rapture is an unmistakenly Christian doctrine”. It is not! It is a serious distortion of Scripture. It is astonishing that a belief so contrary to Scripture and the tradition of the Church could be propagated by so-called “Christians”. According to the Bible and according to the belief not only of Orthodox Christians but also of the Roman Catholic and most Protestant mainline churches, the true Rapture will not be secret; it will be the great and very visible Second Coming of Jesus at the end of the world. That is the one and only “Rapture”. It will not be a separate, secret event but one that every eye shall see (1 Thess. 4:16-17). The word rapture is not found in Scripture but hearkens to 1 Thess. 4:17 where St. Paul says that when the Lord comes again “we who are alive…shall be caught up…in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.” This “being caught up…in the clouds”—arpagisometha in Greek, is translated by some as “raptured”. The word itself is not found in Orthodox theology. The notion of a rapture in which Christ comes unseen to take believers away secretly, and only later comes back again for everyone else publicly—this whole teaching is quite novel. It was almost unheard of until John Nelson Darby formulated it in the 1800s as part of a new approach to the Bible, sometimes called “dispensationalism”. The purpose of the “Rapture” is to protect the elect from the tribulations of the end times. Yet Jesus said nothing about sparing anyone from tribulation. In fact, He said, “In the world you have tribulation, but be of good cheer. I have overcome the world.” Nowhere did Jesus ever say that He would return secretly to rapture the elect. Rather, He promised to be with His elect in all tribulations. “Lo, I am with you always. I will never leave you or forsake you.” He even had something good to say about being persecuted: “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven” (Matt. 5:10). Those who espouse the Rapture claim that Matthew 24:40-41 refers clearly to the rapture of the just, “Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.” The entire passage, however, refers to Christ’s second coming where He will judge the living and the dead and separate the just from the unjust. Darby taught as dogma that when the Scriptures reveal that the Lord will reign on earth for a thousand years (Rev. 20:4), this figure is to be taken literally, rather than as a symbol for eternity as we believe. The Council of Ephesus in A.D. 431 condemned as heresy this teaching which is calledchialiasmos (millenianism or 1000 years). In fact, the Seven Ecumenical Councils (325-787 A.D.) in which the essential truths of the Christian faith were defined never mention a rapture. Yet evangelical Christians and Pentecostals keep using obscure passages of the book of Revelation which purport to give a detailed timetable of what will happen at the end of the world, despite the fact that Jesus Himself warned that no man knows either the day or the hour when the Son of Man shall return. A major problem with the Rapture is that it ends up teaching not two but three comings of Jesus—first His birth in Bethlehem; second, His secret coming to snatch away (rapture) the “born-again”; and third, His coming at the end of the world to judge the living and the dead and to reign in glory. Yet only two not three comings of Christ are mentioned in the Bible. We have the clearest definition of this in the Nicene Creed when we confess that “the Lord Jesus Christ…will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead. His Kingdom will have no end…. I expect the resurrection of the dead. And the life of the ages to come.” There is no mention of a “Rapture”. As already stated, most Christians, Orthodox, Roman Catholics and Protestants do not believe in the Rapture. In fact, one Protestant pastor, John L. Gray, summarized magnificently what we Orthodox and most other Christians believe about the Rapture when he wrote these remarkable words, Though many believe and teach this “Pre-Tribulation Rapture” theory, they erroneously do so, because neither Jesus, Paul, Peter, John, nor any of the other writers of the Bible taught this. Nor did the early church fathers, nor any others for many hundreds of years…. Did you know that NONE of this was ever taught prior to 1812, and that all forms of Pre-Tribulation Rapture teaching were developed since that date? …. If I were to preach something, or believe something, supposedly from the Bible, but cannot find that ANYONE ELSE before 1812 ever believed it or taught it, I would seriously question that it is based on the Bible. Thus the Rapture is foreign to the Bible and to the living tradition of the Church. It is what we call a heresy, a false teaching. False teachings, such as this, happen when people—like John Darby— believe that they have the right to interpret the Scriptures individually apart from the Living Body of Christ —the Church—where the Spirit of Truth abides and leads us to all truth. I can think of no better words to conclude than those of Jesus when He speaks of the one and only “Rapture”, the Second Coming: “Be on guard. Be alert! You do not know when that time will come…keep watch…if he comes suddenly, do not let Him find you sleeping. What I say to you, I say to everyone: Watch!” (Mark 13:32-37).
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The tribulation is for 3 ½ years or 1260 days - not necessarily
Jesus comes immediately after the tribulation - or, very soon after that
The two end time prophets testify or prophecy for 1260 days, then the last trumpet sounds - Yes - trumpet shortly after
... How many resurrections are there immediately after the tribulation? - one
Called to the marriage supper of the lamb. - Revelation 19:17-18, 21
Standing on the sea of glass. - 2ND heaven, not 3RD - the description of the event may be partially symbolic ("it is a vision scene")
How do you know what kind of heaven that is? - "common sense"
If the dead rise first, and we are court up with them at the last trumpet, then according to my Bible we ascended up to HEAVEN in a cloud. - 2ND heaven, not 3RD
Show me in the scriptures were you got that from?
Jesus comes immediately after the tribulation - or, very soon after that
The two end time prophets testify or prophecy for 1260 days, then the last trumpet sounds - Yes - trumpet shortly after
... How many resurrections are there immediately after the tribulation? - one
Called to the marriage supper of the lamb. - Revelation 19:17-18, 21
Standing on the sea of glass. - 2ND heaven, not 3RD - the description of the event may be partially symbolic ("it is a vision scene")
How do you know what kind of heaven that is? - "common sense"
If the dead rise first, and we are court up with them at the last trumpet, then according to my Bible we ascended up to HEAVEN in a cloud. - 2ND heaven, not 3RD
Show me in the scriptures were you got that from?
EDIT: Until then --- take a look at my three 'study' threads linked-to in my signature. They may answer some of your questions...
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Why We Don’t Believe in the Rapture We DON’T believe in the Rapture in the Orthodox Church! This is a statement which should lead many to quickly jump to the conclusion that we are some sort of non- Christian cult, so let me explain what I mean by this statement. A goodly number of Christians think the term “rapture” refers to the resurrection, and if “resurrection” were the simple meaning of the term “rapture,” then we would believe in it. Our Creeds [Nicene and Apostles] and our theology give resounding proof to our belief in the resurrection of the body at the end of time. However, the term “rapture” has a somewhat different meaning than the simple concept of the resurrection and it is that difference which we don’t accept. Based upon a misreading of Revelation 20 and 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17, the “Rapture” in its strictest sense refers to a belief that Jesus will return near the end of time to resurrect the dead and remove the living from this earth, will take them to heaven while leaving the lost souls of this world to endure the Tribulation and the reign of the Anti-Christ. For many, it is a very comforting thought that Christians won’t have to endure the Great Tribulation. However, this is NOT the teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ or the belief of the ancient Church and we reject it for that and other reasons. The doctrine of the “rapture” [and the term itself] was not heard in Christianity until sometime after 1807 when a Scottish pastor began advocating this concept, much to the joy [and relief!] of his followers. However, the belief wasn’t to gain much adherence until the mid-20th century. Since then, it has become popular to the point of becoming a mandatory doctrine in many churches in North America. As I said, however, this belief was not present in Christianity in the 18 preceding centuries, you won’t find it among the writings of the ancient Christian fathers [or the early Protestant reformers, for that matter] and that is one reason why Orthodox Christians don’t accept it. A second reason is this. The doctrine of the rapture does not fit into the outline of end time events as offered by our Lord Jesus Christ. The earliest doctrine of the end times which the first Christians held was given by our Lord Himself and is recorded in St. Matthew’s Gospel [chapter 24]. These words were understood, believed, and transmitted for five decades before the book of Revelation was written. If one looks at the 24th chapter of Matthew [beginning at verse 3] he will find an outline of the end- time; spiritual deception, famines, natural disasters, wars, persecution of Christians, false prophets, the appearance of the Anti-Christ, the Great Tribulation [against the Church], supernatural changes in the cosmos, the Advent [return] of Christ, the gathering of the elect [the resurrection] and the final Judgment. All New Testament accounts of the end of time [1 Thessalonians 4:14-17, 2 Thess. 2:3-10, 1 Cor. 15:51-57, 2 Pet. 3:10-13 and Revelation 20] were, in the first century, measured against the Matthew outline. In this outline, it is very clear that 1) the resurrection doesn’t occur until AFTER the appearance of the Anti-Christ and the Great Tribulation of the Church and 2) the Church WILL BE experiencing the Great Tribulation. This, of course, is NOT comforting news, but it makes it clear to us that we must be prepared and that we must live each day preparing for the possibility of that sequence of events. Our duty is to believe what we know to be true, not what makes us feel at ease. If we are instructed that Christians will, indeed, endure the Great Tribulation, then each of us should live his life in such a way as to enable him to be faithful to Christ in the midst of great persecution. This doesn’t mean worry; it does mean “be prepared.” As I said at the beginning, “We don’t believe in the rapture in the Orthodox Church.” I think it is clear as to why.
Was the time of "grace" or the "grace period" kept a secret from ages and generations but revealed to the apostle Paul? Couldn't the end of that period also not have been revealed except to the body of Christ, the church, through revelation given to Paul?
Two parts to the parousia: in the air for his church - 1 Thessalonians describes the end of the church, the collective body of Christ. There are no signs in the heavens and on earth to herald Christ's coming for his Church as 1 Corinthians 15 says it will happen in the "twinkling of an eye", suddenly.
Acts 1:6,7 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom of Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.. . .NO SIGNS
1 Thessalonians 5:1 But of the times and the seasons brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord as cometh as a thief in the night. . . NO SIGNS
coming to The Lord earth - And his feet shall stand in that day upon the Mount of Olives. . .[Zechariah 14:4]
And, apparently the second coming when Jesus appears on earth, there will be signs. . .Tell us when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Two parts to the parousia: in the air for his church - 1 Thessalonians describes the end of the church, the collective body of Christ. There are no signs in the heavens and on earth to herald Christ's coming for his Church as 1 Corinthians 15 says it will happen in the "twinkling of an eye", suddenly.
Acts 1:6,7 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom of Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.. . .NO SIGNS
1 Thessalonians 5:1 But of the times and the seasons brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord as cometh as a thief in the night. . . NO SIGNS
coming to The Lord earth - And his feet shall stand in that day upon the Mount of Olives. . .[Zechariah 14:4]
And, apparently the second coming when Jesus appears on earth, there will be signs. . .Tell us when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
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2ND heaven - "in the sky" - "above the earth" - YES - whether 10 miles or 100 miles or ...
3RD heaven - NO
The two witnesses - that may be different - happens BEFORE the rapture.
3RD heaven - NO
The two witnesses - that may be different - happens BEFORE the rapture.
1ST & 2ND heaven - "in the sky" - "above the earth" - YES - whether 10 miles or 100 miles or ...
3RD heaven - NO
The two witnesses - that may be different - happens BEFORE the rapture.
G
The tribulation is for 3 ½ years or 1260 days { The Bible does not say / indicate / teach that. }
Jesus comes immediately after the tribulation { The Bible does not say / indicate / teach that either. }
The two end time prophets testify or prophecy for 1260 days, then the last trumpet sounds { Yes. ( "Close enough..." ) }
How many resurrections are there immediately after the tribulation? { None. }
Jesus comes immediately after the tribulation { The Bible does not say / indicate / teach that either.
}The two end time prophets testify or prophecy for 1260 days, then the last trumpet sounds { Yes. ( "Close enough..."
) }How many resurrections are there immediately after the tribulation? { None. }
The two witnesses are the Church:
West: Catholic - Roman - Latin
East: Orthodox - Greek
COMPARE:
The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches.
TO THIS:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.” [SUP]4 [/SUP]These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth.
Thus a lampstand is a church, not a person.
In Revelation 1, John writes letters to the 7 churches of Asia Minor which are in Turkey in close proximity to him in Patmos which is just off the Turkish coast. Later in Rev 11 where the two witnesses are discussed, these 7 churches historically are gone and replaced with 2 churches the Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox Churches. The East-West Schism which occurred in 1054 AD actually began much sooner. Pretty much all Christian denominations in the world today trace their roots back to these two Churches, either Latin or Greek.
The two churches will be "spiritually defeated" as we are told here:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. [SUP]8 [/SUP]And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt.
This is a spiritual defeat which agrees with Dan 7. Spiritually speaking we all know what Sodom represents. Egypt represents Muslims/Islam. These two evil spiritual powers are already attacking both Churches. "Egypt" is waging war against the Greek Church and Sodom against the Roman or West Church. Spiritual defeat by the "Beast who ascends from the Bottomless Pit (Satan) over the 2 Churches is nearing completion.
West: Catholic - Roman - Latin
East: Orthodox - Greek
COMPARE:
The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches.
TO THIS:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.” [SUP]4 [/SUP]These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth.
Thus a lampstand is a church, not a person.
In Revelation 1, John writes letters to the 7 churches of Asia Minor which are in Turkey in close proximity to him in Patmos which is just off the Turkish coast. Later in Rev 11 where the two witnesses are discussed, these 7 churches historically are gone and replaced with 2 churches the Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox Churches. The East-West Schism which occurred in 1054 AD actually began much sooner. Pretty much all Christian denominations in the world today trace their roots back to these two Churches, either Latin or Greek.
The two churches will be "spiritually defeated" as we are told here:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. [SUP]8 [/SUP]And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt.
This is a spiritual defeat which agrees with Dan 7. Spiritually speaking we all know what Sodom represents. Egypt represents Muslims/Islam. These two evil spiritual powers are already attacking both Churches. "Egypt" is waging war against the Greek Church and Sodom against the Roman or West Church. Spiritual defeat by the "Beast who ascends from the Bottomless Pit (Satan) over the 2 Churches is nearing completion.
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G
I see that you have changed your mind a bit on who the two witnesses are...
So --- are you saying:
The East Church and the West Church are going to kill their enemies with fire...?
The East Church and the West Church are going to "smite the earth with all plagues"...?
The beast is going to kill the East Church and the West Church...?
The whole world will see the dead bodies of the East Church and the West Church lie in the street, and not allow them to be buried...?
"Just sayin'..."
Please explain the parts highlighted in red:
Revelation 11:
[SUP]3[/SUP] And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. [SUP]4[/SUP] These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. [SUP]5[/SUP] And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. [SUP]6[/SUP] These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. [SUP]7[/SUP] And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. [SUP]8[/SUP] And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. [SUP]9[/SUP] And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. [SUP]10[/SUP] And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. [SUP]11[/SUP] And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. [SUP]12[/SUP] And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
So --- are you saying:
Israel and the Church are going to kill their enemies with fire...?
Israel and the Church are going to "smite the earth with all plagues"...?
The beast is going to kill Israel and the Church...?
The whole world will see the dead bodies of Israel and the Church lie in the street, and not allow them to be buried...?
Revelation 11:
[SUP]3[/SUP] And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. [SUP]4[/SUP] These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. [SUP]5[/SUP] And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. [SUP]6[/SUP] These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. [SUP]7[/SUP] And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. [SUP]8[/SUP] And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. [SUP]9[/SUP] And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. [SUP]10[/SUP] And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. [SUP]11[/SUP] And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. [SUP]12[/SUP] And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
So --- are you saying:
Israel and the Church are going to kill their enemies with fire...?
Israel and the Church are going to "smite the earth with all plagues"...?
The beast is going to kill Israel and the Church...?
The whole world will see the dead bodies of Israel and the Church lie in the street, and not allow them to be buried...?
The East Church and the West Church are going to kill their enemies with fire...?
The East Church and the West Church are going to "smite the earth with all plagues"...?
The beast is going to kill the East Church and the West Church...?
The whole world will see the dead bodies of the East Church and the West Church lie in the street, and not allow them to be buried...?
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An example of a very common error that is made by not following this simple ordered-thought process is the meaning of the word 'candlesticks':
The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. ~ Revelation 1:20
These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. ~ Revelation 11:4
In terms of the visual imagery, what is a candlestick? It is a 'light' - something that serves to "illuminate" or to be a "beacon" (depending on the point of reference).
In Revelation 1:20, the candlesticks represent churches. It tells us that plainly. However, in terms of the visual imagery - what a candlestick is and what it represents are two different things.
In Revelation 1:20 - a candlestick is "a source of illumination" - and represents a church.
In Revelation 11:4 - a candlestick is "a source of illumination" - and represents a witness.
Both are "a source of illumination" (of the gospel, to the world). But, to assume from Revelation 1:20 that a 'candlestick' is (always, by definition) a church - is not any different than to assume from Revelation 11:4 that a 'candlestick' is (always, by definition) a witness.
(Please understand the proper definition of the words 'church' and 'witness' as they are used in the context of these verses.)
What a candlestick is - is the same in both verses. What a candlestick represents is different in the two verses.
By "skipping over" this all-important "first step" - effectively ignoring the importance of the visual imagery - and, "pre-interpreting" the word 'candlesticks' instead of interpreting the visual image - people can improperly assign the meaning of candlesticks to 'churches'. Then, when they get to Revelation 11:4, they erroneously determine that the two candlesticks mentioned in this verse MUST be churches.
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An example of a very common error that is made by not following this simple ordered-thought process is the meaning of the word 'candlesticks':
The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. ~ Revelation 1:20
These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. ~ Revelation 11:4
In terms of the visual imagery, what is a candlestick? It is a 'light' - something that serves to "illuminate" or to be a "beacon" (depending on the point of reference).
In Revelation 1:20, the candlesticks represent churches. It tells us that plainly. However, in terms of the visual imagery - what a candlestick is and what it represents are two different things.
In Revelation 1:20 - a candlestick is "a source of illumination" - and represents a church.
In Revelation 11:4 - a candlestick is "a source of illumination" - and represents a witness.
Both are "a source of illumination" (of the gospel, to the world). But, to assume from Revelation 1:20 that a 'candlestick' is (always, by definition) a church - is not any different than to assume from Revelation 11:4 that a 'candlestick' is (always, by definition) a witness.
(Please understand the proper definition of the words 'church' and 'witness' as they are used in the context of these verses.)
What a candlestick is - is the same in both verses. What a candlestick represents is different in the two verses.
By "skipping over" this all-important "first step" - effectively ignoring the importance of the visual imagery - and, "pre-interpreting" the word 'candlesticks' instead of interpreting the visual image - people can improperly assign the meaning of candlesticks to 'churches'. Then, when they get to Revelation 11:4, they erroneously determine that the two candlesticks mentioned in this verse MUST be churches.
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Gary,
The whole passage describes spiritual warfare. Please try not to literalize the passage. The passage describes Satan's spiritual defeat of Christian values prior to the Return of Christ. The dead bodies are not literal. The street is not literal. The lack of burial is not literal. The fire is not literal. The smiting of the earth is not literal. All of it is spiritual and all of these symbols are defined in the OT.
John wrote Revelation using OT symbols from the OT prophets. Until recently, the church was able to "convict" sinners of their sin.
Compare:
Jeremiah 5:14
Therefore thus says the Lord God of hosts: “Because you speak this word, Behold, I will make My words in your mouth fire, And this people wood, And it shall devour them.
With:
Revelation 11:5
And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner.
See how "FIRE" and "MOUTH" are used in each passage.
God's WORDS are like "Fire in the mouth of the church."
So --- are you saying:
The East Church and the West Church are going to kill their enemies with fire...?
The East Church and the West Church are going to "smite the earth with all plagues"...?
The beast is going to kill the East Church and the West Church...?
The whole world will see the dead bodies of the East Church and the West Church lie in the street, and not allow them to be buried...?
The East Church and the West Church are going to kill their enemies with fire...?
The East Church and the West Church are going to "smite the earth with all plagues"...?
The beast is going to kill the East Church and the West Church...?
The whole world will see the dead bodies of the East Church and the West Church lie in the street, and not allow them to be buried...?
John wrote Revelation using OT symbols from the OT prophets. Until recently, the church was able to "convict" sinners of their sin.
Compare:
Jeremiah 5:14
Therefore thus says the Lord God of hosts: “Because you speak this word, Behold, I will make My words in your mouth fire, And this people wood, And it shall devour them.
With:
Revelation 11:5
And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner.
See how "FIRE" and "MOUTH" are used in each passage.
God's WORDS are like "Fire in the mouth of the church."