The Trinity

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Jan 24, 2013
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They must not be. the one talking said "the father" (1 person) and his spirit (another one) sent him.





what does this have to do with who was speaking?




Again, your skirting. Scripture says THEY CREATED THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH. Not him.. The one who said it did not have to say anything of the father. He did lay the foundation.

If I built something with help. I would not be lying if I said I built it, and did not mention the ones who helped me. i did build it..

your logic is flawed. and you still have not answered the question. what is so hard about saying "the one who spoke is"_____"



Isaiah 48:12-17

12*Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, (Are these two people or are they both ONE AND THE SAME?) my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

13*Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together. (Who is this? The Father)

14*All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; which among them hath declared these things? The Lord hath loved him: he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the Chaldeans.

15*I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous.

16*Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, (Again like Jacob both ONE and the SAME ) hath sent me. (who is "me"? Isaiah moved by the Holy Spirit within to PROPHESY)

17*Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. (who is this? The Father speaking through Isaiah)


Let's back up a few chapters shall we?

Isaiah 45:17-22

18*For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else. (again not "jesus", the Father)

19*I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the Lord speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

20*Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save.

21*Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

22*Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
(no "God and his Spirit sending another spirit here. Just the LORD ALONE)

In the beginning was the Word. Does that mean 2 beings or more? No. As long as the Father was (being Spirit and invisible) He could speak! To speak is to also be made known. That Word was the physical presence of the invisible God, which at times spoke through Isaiah and the prophets, now speaks through His son.

2 Corinthians 5:18-19

18*And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19*To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


Who reconciled the world? The same LORD in Isaiah.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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1Jo 5:7 KJV - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
yes and as we learn here on earth from the one one, we see that we are one with him as well for he is in us and he becomes us as we quit riding the fence, one minute in the Spirit being one with God and the next hour in the world being fleshly or better yet Jesus first (going to church) Family second and work third categorizing is riding the fence. being of the flesh, in place of Jesus just being ones life period whether at Church, dealing with family or at work. as a be;oiever no matteer where one goes there he goes with you, ready to teach you, me and all that will listen
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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I have no religious background, only the Church of Truth and Grace. I am of a peculiar people.
Thanks and so am I Halleluah, it is by Love God's (Jehovah)that I am saved nad he poured out this love on me an dall over me as in 1 Cor 13never been the same since
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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So, by the cross, you believe that there is no need to discern good from evil, that evil has been removed?
No other way for man to do what is right by God, Old Testament Saints looked froward to the cross and we are looking back to it it is by the cross that we are freed to Love God's type received from God as a gift, man is not saved by works of self, saved by Faith and then God works follow as in Abraham, Sarah, Noah well read it Hebrews 11
Job 19:25I know that my redeemer lives, and that in the end he will stand on the earth.
Psalm 100:4Enter his gates with thanksgiving and his courts with praise; give thanks to him and praise his name.

How can David say this or Job excercise trust in this unless by Faith (trust) and know that Christ was going to come and redeem the whole world leaving all that is left for man to do is receive this as done and thus move right into new life in the Spirit of God, getting back what man lost that day when Adam and Eve ate from that tree of evil and died in the Spirit of God being alive in the flesh, and running ever since. God in the form of his Son took away the sin of the world in His sight so he could restore humanity back to being alive in the Spirit and man dead in the flesh with Christ at the cross now alive in the Spirit, so that today the flesh has no more control over the body, seperating Soul and Spirit, discerned Good from Bad God took care of us having to as man tried all through the Old teastament but failed bacause they did not mix it with Faith (beleif) sothey never entered his rest because of unbelief and he swore they never would because man just wants his own righteousness instead of partaking in God's righteousness for by the Spirit of God we are led, no more riding the fence no more listening to the deciever that causes doubt and by doubt is what got Eve and Adam to eat from that tree that caused this mess and this mess was reversed at the cross
Thanks for your insights
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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It is a matter of knowing who did what. To give credit to the humanity is going against God.
Rom 1:25 KJV - Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Yes AMEN!!!!!!!! and then since we know what is truth then we act upon it by Faith and live in the Spirit of God truisting God to show and teach us all truth that sets us free and we shall be free indeed.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Jesus was never not God He was God incarnated in the Flesh
Yes absolutely how can they be one if not all? and how can we all have the same Holy Ghost that he sent after ascension, for God is omnipotent and omnipresent all over this universe everywhere at one and at once everywhere awesome all things are ours without greed over bearance or pride in the way, excercising Faith is much differant than please Ineed this or that or forgive me over and over again
Like lifting weights I could stand and say boy I need to lift weights and never lift. So I could say please please please. or I could say thank you in all situations knowing God has got me smothered and covered, trusting God that everything good or bad that happens to me and others somehow will work out for the good of Godand being in God by Faith it somehow works our for my good as well, even though when going through the fire I do not always see it but I know it
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,353
186
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Isaiah 48:12-17

12*Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, (Are these two people or are they both ONE AND THE SAME?) my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

13*Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together. (Who is this? The Father)

14*All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; which among them hath declared these things? The Lord hath loved him: he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the Chaldeans.

15*I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous.

16*Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, (Again like Jacob both ONE and the SAME ) hath sent me. (who is "me"? Isaiah moved by the Holy Spirit within to PROPHESY)

17*Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. (who is this? The Father speaking through Isaiah)


Let's back up a few chapters shall we?

Isaiah 45:17-22

18*For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else. (again not "jesus", the Father)

19*I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the Lord speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

20*Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save.

21*Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

22*Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
(no "God and his Spirit sending another spirit here. Just the LORD ALONE)

In the beginning was the Word. Does that mean 2 beings or more? No. As long as the Father was (being Spirit and invisible) He could speak! To speak is to also be made known. That Word was the physical presence of the invisible God, which at times spoke through Isaiah and the prophets, now speaks through His son.

2 Corinthians 5:18-19

18*And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19*To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


Who reconciled the world? The same LORD in Isaiah.
Yuo know As you said and i think we agree on this that God is the Alpha and the Omega, the "A" to the "Z" right? It seems to me youu both are caught up some where between the "B" and the "Y" so let us move onto thee "Z" God ahs received ypu both as his by belief
Love you
 
J

JLHillsSr

Guest
Yes AMEN!!!!!!!! and then since we know what is truth then we act upon it by Faith and live in the Spirit of God truisting God to show and teach us all truth that sets us free and we shall be free indeed.
So God died on the cross?
 
Sep 12, 2012
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This was part of the statement of faith for the church I used to attend. I believe my father wrote this as he was pastor, although I could be wrong.

God is triune

There is one God: infinite, eternal, almighty, and perfect in holiness, truth, and love. In the unity of the godhead there are three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, co-existent, co-equal, co-eternal. The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Holy Spirit, yet each is truly Deity. One God—Father, Son and Holy Spirit—is the foundation of Christian faith and life.

God the Father

God the Father is the Creator of heaven and earth. By his Word and for his glory, he freely and supernaturally created the world from nothing. Through the same Word he daily sustains all his creatures. He rules over all and is the only Sovereign. His plans and purposes cannot be thwarted. He is faithful to every promise, works all things together for good to those who love him, and in his unfathomable grace gave his Son, Jesus Christ, for mankind’s redemption. He made man for fellowship with himself, and intended that all creation should live to the praise of his glory.

Jesus Christ

Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, was the eternal Word made flesh, supernaturally conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary. He was perfect in nature, teaching, and obedience. He is fully God and fully man. He was always with God and is God. Through him all things came into being and were created. He was before all things and in him all things hold together by the word of his power. He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation, and in him dwells the fullness of the godhead bodily. He is the only Savior for the sins of the world, having shed his blood and died a vicarious death on Calvary’s cross. By his death in our place, he revealed the divine love and upheld divine justice, removing our guilt and reconciling us to God. Having redeemed us from sin, the third day he rose bodily from the grave, victorious over death and the powers of darkness, and for a period of 40 days appeared to more than 500 witnesses, performing many convincing proofs of his resurrection. He ascended into heaven where, at God’s right hand, he intercedes for his people and rules as Lord over all. He is the Head of his body, the Church, and should be adored, loved, served, and obeyed by all.

The Holy Spirit

The Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of life, convicts the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment. Through the proclamation of the gospel he persuades men to repent of their sins and confess Jesus as Lord. By the same Spirit a person is led to trust in divine mercy. The Holy Spirit unites believers to Jesus Christ in faith, brings about the new birth, and dwells within the regenerate. The Holy Spirit has come to glorify the Son, who in turn came to glorify the Father. He will lead the Church into a right understanding and rich application of the truth of God’s Word. He is to be respected, honored, and worshiped as God the Third Person of the Trinity.
 
Mar 2, 2013
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interesting Frank, And the Holy Ghost wasn't known of till the baptism of John, when he saw a dove descend upon Jesus and heard a voice from heaven this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased, John did his job that he was here for and anounced that the israelites Messiah had arrived, John's Job over Then Jesus went out for the devil to try and tempt him. So who was this Holy Ghost, Spirit of truth mind you. Who did Jesus pray to and at the same time when asked where is his witness he said Father whom is in me he who sees him sees Father
Now I know Father can do anything Father wants period Father is by no means limited. Even John the baptist made an interesting statement to those religous leaders of that day how will you vipers escape the coming wrath, God can turn these stones into Jews. So brother God can use a trinity a double or just one. Man fights and argues over God a lot missing truth, that by the death of Christ we are freed from the Law and given the Law of LOVE by God the Father, being freed from the Law by the death frees us to serve Christ by the resurrection our resurrection with Christ here and now by beleif in the finished work of Christ and after coming alive in the Spirit of Christ being freed from the commandment we mary and are one, but until we are freed from the commandment of the Law we can't serve in the newness of the Spirit of truth. For Law kills the letter of, now the Spirit of truth gives life whether you want to call this Christ and or just God okay but I call the Spirit of truth my coupler my quaranteer of my Salvation unto God the Father and God the Son, coupled together by God the Holy Ghost
Rambling on to be noticed without facts or any logical comments will not be accepted in my books. There are too many out there doing exactly the same and that is why this whole world is confused. It is obvious from your scrambled reply that your god is not the same as my God. If you do want to reply to my writing, please supply me with proper logical facts extracted from the Bible. Prove to me that I am wrong. ie 1 Joh 2:4, 2 Joh 1:6, James 2:10, Mat 19:17, Rom 13:6-10, 1 Tim 6:14. You will love the last text. There are many more I can give you. If you cannot do that, swallow your pride and start to study the Word of God. I will help you if that is OK.
 
Mar 2, 2013
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Jhn 1:1 KJV - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jhn 1:2 KJV - The same was in the beginning with God.
If you truly look at these verses you can see a succession in honor.
Jhn 1:14 KJV - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
This does not say Jesus is God.
Phl 1:19 KJV - For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,
The Spirit of Jesus Christ is Jehovah.
Luk 4:4 KJV - And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
How does this equate, Jesus is Word?
JL HIllsSr
All my studies are based on the original KJV.
[FONT=&quot]Hi there, I am 62 years old with a lot, still not enough, of Biblical knowledge which I have gathered over the years. My studies began when I realized how many different 'Truths' their are for one thing. God is the same forever, why would one church claim that their teachings' are right and the other churches' teachings are wrong. How can two different teaching be the same thing and then claim it comes from the same God and then walk around saying that we are all praying to the same God. This cannot be true. With this mighty tool in my hand, I will discuss a few issues that many people always wondered about and could not find the true answer. The information that I will pass on to you will be information that I have gathered over many years as an individual deep delver into all the teachings out there. I will endeavor to pass only the Truth and I am always willing to change my views if you out there could provide the proof from the Bible, the only source that I use. I do not attend any church on a regular basis and is not a member of any church.

In the beginning only God existed as the only Holy Spirit. He then created Jesus Christ as His only Son, also the first created being. Jesus was a God, just as His Father and also a Holy Spirit. So, there were two Holy Spirits in heaven. He also created angels. After some time, a third of the angels rebelled against God and there was war in heaven. Jesus Christ and His angels fought against Satan and his angels and Jesus Christ won the war. Satan and his angels were cast onto this earth. The earth was still in a mess, ie. the water was not separated from the earth etc. Jesus Christ got the instruction from God to create the earth etc. and Jesus then proceeded to create the earth, animals, plants etc. and eventually Adam and Eve. This was done in 7 literal days and not 7 periods.

Satan immediately started with his deception etc. to destroy God's newest addition to His family, Adam and Eve and Satan achieved it by getting them to sin. God was very upset about this but luckily for us, God already had a Salvation Plan in place for His children to be saved. The plan was for Jesus to come to this earth to tell the people about God and to get them to follow Jesus and become children of God. But that also meant that Jesus had to give up His Godly status and to become totally man. This means that only one Holy Spirit was left in Heaven.

Mankind started filling this earth and sin grew by the day. Eventually this earth was full of sin and God was very upset. This was round about two thousand years after creation. The big flood occurred and most of mankind was destroyed. Only Noah and his family plus the animals God selected were saved.

The earth became filled up with people again and there were a lot of sin. God then decided to send His Son Jesus Christ to this earth. This was also round about two thousand years after the big flood.

Jesus was born in Bethlehem and grew up as a carpenter but also studied the written Word of God. He made sure that the written Word was in line with God's Truth as He obviously knew what was right and wrong. With the same Word, He taught many people the Truth and who God really is. He also demonstrated the power of God by healing the sick and even raised people from the dead.

You may now ask, how is it possible for a man to do these miracles. Well, God gave Jesus healing powers when He was baptized by John the baptist. So, it was the power of the Holy Spirit, which was God at that stage, that worked through Jesus Christ, that healed mankind. Jesus was only a tool that God used. There was NO other Holy Spirit on this world.

Jesus also had to teach mankind what real love is. Love towards God and towards your neighbours. A lot of people do not realize that this love is not just a warm feeling inside you. God's love is measurable. God gave His requirements to Adam and Eve already but at mount Sinai He wrote His requirements on two stone tablets and gave it to Moses. That was the Will of God or otherwise known as the Law of God or the Ten Commandments. You see, if you steal or murder someone, you show your hate towards that person but if you do not steal or murder, you show your love towards your neighbour.
The first four Commandments refer to the love towards God and the last six Commandments, the love towards your neighbour. The churches love to read these two Commandments on Sundays but do not explain the Truth within it. There will be huge financial implications in their lives if they do so.

A lot of churches today advocate that upholding God's Law, or the Will of God is not necessary anymore. It is so far from the truth. The old laws regarding circumcision, meat preparations, special Sabbaths etc. were abolished with the death of Jesus Christ, but the upholding of God's Law is still valid today. Jesus Christ held God's Law and we are instructed in His Word, that we need to uphold the Law of God until Jesus comes again. Yes, that is until Jesus Christ comes on a cloud again to collect the Saved ones, also referred to as the First Coming.

Now, most of the churches ignores one commandment of God. That is the fourth commandment regarding the Sabbath.
There is nobody on the earth that will provide me proof from the original Bible, that today's Sabbath is Sunday. Anybody who has such proof, must provide it to me and he/she will be US$50000 richer and if you cannot do that, please donate only US$10 to this web-site. I challenge all the priests, pastors and ministers of all churches to provide me with this proof. I do not want a theory based on events or what someone has said, I want the verse that quotes the fact that the Sabbath is the Sunday. The seven day cycle has never changed from creation till now. The seventh day, thousands of years ago is still the seventh day today. It is similar to a clock with the the 12 at the top.

Where did the confusion come in you may ask. Well, about 325AD, there was a Roman Emperor with the name of Constantine, also the head of the Roman Catholic Church, who brought the hour of worship on a Sunday to cater for those people who were sun-god-worshippers and changed to Christian worshipping, which meant that they could just change venues like one who would change from the Baptist Church to the Methodist Church on the same day. This usage became the norm and now, about 2000 years later, people don't realize the importance of the subtle change that Satan has implemented. Yes, Satan got it right to change God's law without people realizing it today, and that he did by using the church. Yes, most of the churches today advocate and teach that Sunday is the Sabbath day whilst Saturday is the true Sabbath day.

Now, coming back to the Law or Will of God, Jesus Christ and a lot of His disciples confirmed that if you Love God, you will obey ALL His commandments. That is the basis of true Godly love. If you ignore this fact, there is no hope for you. This is very serious. God forgives upon true repentence and only after you have done His Will. Are you one of them? Are you really repenting the breaking of the true Sabbath? Just remember, Jesus Christ held the Sabbath and He told people that if you love God, you must OBEY HIS COMMANDMENTS. That is the Truth, nothing more and nothing less.

What about the person who holds all the laws but do not believe in God or Jesus Christ you may ask. I doubt if anybody will uphold God's Laws and at the same time not believe in God. The first requirement to become a child of God is to accept Jesus Christ as God's Son and to believe and trust Him with your whole heart, sole and mind. Then you need to show and live your love towards God and your neigbour by upholding God's Law. If you do not fulfill this requirement, I do believe that the person who do not believe in God and Jesus Christ, will not be saved. For the person who believes and trust in Jesus Christ and God, it will not be a burden to obey the Commandments as you will enjoy doing it because you will know in your heart that you are doing what God wants you to do and you will be a better person and that salvation is possible for you.

When Jesus accomplished all the deeds that God gave Him on this earth, He had to sacrifice His life to enable mankind to be saved. Yes, Jesus took upon His shoulders all the sin of this world when He died on the cross as our Saviour. How great is that to know that we can still be saved from all our sins. We need to repent, repent and repent and to believe and trust in Jesus Christ and God.

Jesus Christ was resurrected by God and only when He went to sit on the right hand side of God, did the Holy Spirit exist on this world. I believe, that is the time when God gave Jesus Christ some of His Godly powers that He had before He gave up His deity status, back to Him which included Omnipotence, that is the ability to be in heaven and at the same time to be on this earth as the Holy Spirit. That is why Jesus said, "When two or more are gathered in My Name, there I will be." Jesus, as the true Holy Spirit, and not another person, will be amongst us.

This also solves the problem that I had with the Two Thrones in the New Jerusalem and not Three. The fact that Jesus Christ as the High Priest and still man, and God as the Holy Spirit, will be amongst their own people in the New Jerusalem, there will be no need for a third throne for a third Holy Spirit. That also clears the matter of the Trinity concept and teaching which is not true.

Well, I hope and believe that somebody out there has learnt something valuable. This is a summary of many years of studies. It is free and there is no charge. It is not everyday that you will receive something for nothing. Enjoy the reading and feel free to write to me if you feel that I have overstepped.

I thank you for your time and patience to read through this document. If you are really earnest in your search of the Real Truth, God will open your eyes to see it. Believe and Trust in Him. That is the only path.

I have given you what I believe is the real Truth and I pray that God will bless you with this knowledge.


[/FONT]
 
Mar 2, 2013
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Isaiah 48:12-17

12*Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, (Are these two people or are they both ONE AND THE SAME?) my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

13*Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together. (Who is this? The Father)

14*All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; which among them hath declared these things? The Lord hath loved him: he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the Chaldeans.

15*I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous.

16*Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, (Again like Jacob both ONE and the SAME ) hath sent me. (who is "me"? Isaiah moved by the Holy Spirit within to PROPHESY)

17*Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. (who is this? The Father speaking through Isaiah)


Let's back up a few chapters shall we?

Isaiah 45:17-22

18*For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else. (again not "jesus", the Father)

19*I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the Lord speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

20*Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save.

21*Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

22*Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
(no "God and his Spirit sending another spirit here. Just the LORD ALONE)

In the beginning was the Word. Does that mean 2 beings or more? No. As long as the Father was (being Spirit and invisible) He could speak! To speak is to also be made known. That Word was the physical presence of the invisible God, which at times spoke through Isaiah and the prophets, now speaks through His son.

2 Corinthians 5:18-19

18*And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19*To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


Who reconciled the world? The same LORD in Isaiah.
justamazed
Herewith a document on many aspects, Trinity, Salvation Plan, Jesus Christ's path, The Law of God, True Love to God and the Sabbath.

[FONT=&quot]Hi there, I am 62 years old with a lot, still not enough, of Biblical knowledge which I have gathered over the years. My studies began when I realized how many different 'Truths' their are for one thing. God is the same forever, why would one church claim that their teachings' are right and the other churches' teachings are wrong. How can two different teaching be the same thing and then claim it comes from the same God and then walk around saying that we are all praying to the same God. This cannot be true. With this mighty tool in my hand, I will discuss a few issues that many people always wondered about and could not find the true answer. The information that I will pass on to you will be information that I have gathered over many years as an individual deep delver into all the teachings out there. I will endeavor to pass only the Truth and I am always willing to change my views if you out there could provide the proof from the Bible, the only source that I use. I do not attend any church on a regular basis and is not a member of any church.

In the beginning only God existed as the only Holy Spirit. He then created Jesus Christ as His only Son, also the first created being. Jesus was a God, just as His Father and also a Holy Spirit. So, there were two Holy Spirits in heaven. He also created angels. After some time, a third of the angels rebelled against God and there was war in heaven. Jesus Christ and His angels fought against Satan and his angels and Jesus Christ won the war. Satan and his angels were cast onto this earth. The earth was still in a mess, ie. the water was not separated from the earth etc. Jesus Christ got the instruction from God to create the earth etc. and Jesus then proceeded to create the earth, animals, plants etc. and eventually Adam and Eve. This was done in 7 literal days and not 7 periods.

Satan immediately started with his deception etc. to destroy God's newest addition to His family, Adam and Eve and Satan achieved it by getting them to sin. God was very upset about this but luckily for us, God already had a Salvation Plan in place for His children to be saved. The plan was for Jesus to come to this earth to tell the people about God and to get them to follow Jesus and become children of God. But that also meant that Jesus had to give up His Godly status and to become totally man. This means that only one Holy Spirit was left in Heaven.

Mankind started filling this earth and sin grew by the day. Eventually this earth was full of sin and God was very upset. This was round about two thousand years after creation. The big flood occurred and most of mankind was destroyed. Only Noah and his family plus the animals God selected were saved.

The earth became filled up with people again and there were a lot of sin. God then decided to send His Son Jesus Christ to this earth. This was also round about two thousand years after the big flood.

Jesus was born in Bethlehem and grew up as a carpenter but also studied the written Word of God. He made sure that the written Word was in line with God's Truth as He obviously knew what was right and wrong. With the same Word, He taught many people the Truth and who God really is. He also demonstrated the power of God by healing the sick and even raised people from the dead.

You may now ask, how is it possible for a man to do these miracles. Well, God gave Jesus healing powers when He was baptized by John the baptist. So, it was the power of the Holy Spirit, which was God at that stage, that worked through Jesus Christ, that healed mankind. Jesus was only a tool that God used. There was NO other Holy Spirit on this world.

Jesus also had to teach mankind what real love is. Love towards God and towards your neighbours. A lot of people do not realize that this love is not just a warm feeling inside you. God's love is measurable. God gave His requirements to Adam and Eve already but at mount Sinai He wrote His requirements on two stone tablets and gave it to Moses. That was the Will of God or otherwise known as the Law of God or the Ten Commandments. You see, if you steal or murder someone, you show your hate towards that person but if you do not steal or murder, you show your love towards your neighbour.
The first four Commandments refer to the love towards God and the last six Commandments, the love towards your neighbour. The churches love to read these two Commandments on Sundays but do not explain the Truth within it. There will be huge financial implications in their lives if they do so.

A lot of churches today advocate that upholding God's Law, or the Will of God is not necessary anymore. It is so far from the truth. The old laws regarding circumcision, meat preparations, special Sabbaths etc. were abolished with the death of Jesus Christ, but the upholding of God's Law is still valid today. Jesus Christ held God's Law and we are instructed in His Word, that we need to uphold the Law of God until Jesus comes again. Yes, that is until Jesus Christ comes on a cloud again to collect the Saved ones, also referred to as the First Coming.

Now, most of the churches ignores one commandment of God. That is the fourth commandment regarding the Sabbath.
There is nobody on the earth that will provide me proof from the original Bible, that today's Sabbath is Sunday. Anybody who has such proof, must provide it to me and he/she will be US$50000 richer and if you cannot do that, please donate only US$10 to this web-site. I challenge all the priests, pastors and ministers of all churches to provide me with this proof. I do not want a theory based on events or what someone has said, I want the verse that quotes the fact that the Sabbath is the Sunday. The seven day cycle has never changed from creation till now. The seventh day, thousands of years ago is still the seventh day today. It is similar to a clock with the the 12 at the top.

Where did the confusion come in you may ask. Well, about 325AD, there was a Roman Emperor with the name of Constantine, also the head of the Roman Catholic Church, who brought the hour of worship on a Sunday to cater for those people who were sun-god-worshippers and changed to Christian worshipping, which meant that they could just change venues like one who would change from the Baptist Church to the Methodist Church on the same day. This usage became the norm and now, about 2000 years later, people don't realize the importance of the subtle change that Satan has implemented. Yes, Satan got it right to change God's law without people realizing it today, and that he did by using the church. Yes, most of the churches today advocate and teach that Sunday is the Sabbath day whilst Saturday is the true Sabbath day.

Now, coming back to the Law or Will of God, Jesus Christ and a lot of His disciples confirmed that if you Love God, you will obey ALL His commandments. That is the basis of true Godly love. If you ignore this fact, there is no hope for you. This is very serious. God forgives upon true repentence and only after you have done His Will. Are you one of them? Are you really repenting the breaking of the true Sabbath? Just remember, Jesus Christ held the Sabbath and He told people that if you love God, you must OBEY HIS COMMANDMENTS. That is the Truth, nothing more and nothing less.

What about the person who holds all the laws but do not believe in God or Jesus Christ you may ask. I doubt if anybody will uphold God's Laws and at the same time not believe in God. The first requirement to become a child of God is to accept Jesus Christ as God's Son and to believe and trust Him with your whole heart, sole and mind. Then you need to show and live your love towards God and your neigbour by upholding God's Law. If you do not fulfill this requirement, I do believe that the person who do not believe in God and Jesus Christ, will not be saved. For the person who believes and trust in Jesus Christ and God, it will not be a burden to obey the Commandments as you will enjoy doing it because you will know in your heart that you are doing what God wants you to do and you will be a better person and that salvation is possible for you.

When Jesus accomplished all the deeds that God gave Him on this earth, He had to sacrifice His life to enable mankind to be saved. Yes, Jesus took upon His shoulders all the sin of this world when He died on the cross as our Saviour. How great is that to know that we can still be saved from all our sins. We need to repent, repent and repent and to believe and trust in Jesus Christ and God.

Jesus Christ was resurrected by God and only when He went to sit on the right hand side of God, did the Holy Spirit exist on this world. I believe, that is the time when God gave Jesus Christ some of His Godly powers that He had before He gave up His deity status, back to Him which included Omnipotence, that is the ability to be in heaven and at the same time to be on this earth as the Holy Spirit. That is why Jesus said, "When two or more are gathered in My Name, there I will be." Jesus, as the true Holy Spirit, and not another person, will be amongst us.

This also solves the problem that I had with the Two Thrones in the New Jerusalem and not Three. The fact that Jesus Christ as the High Priest and still man, and God as the Holy Spirit, will be amongst their own people in the New Jerusalem, there will be no need for a third throne for a third Holy Spirit. That also clears the matter of the Trinity concept and teaching which is not true.

Well, I hope and believe that somebody out there has learnt something valuable. This is a summary of many years of studies. It is free and there is no charge. It is not everyday that you will receive something for nothing. Enjoy the reading and feel free to write to me if you feel that I have overstepped.

I thank you for your time and patience to read through this document. If you are really earnest in your search of the Real Truth, God will open your eyes to see it. Believe and Trust in Him. That is the only path.

I have given you what I believe is the real Truth and I pray that God will bless you with this knowledge.


[/FONT]
 
J

JLHillsSr

Guest
JL HIllsSr
All my studies are based on the original KJV.
[FONT=&quot]Hi there, I am 62 years old with a lot, still not enough, of Biblical knowledge which I have gathered over the years. My studies began when I realized how many different 'Truths' their are for one thing. God is the same forever, why would one church claim that their teachings' are right and the other churches' teachings are wrong. How can two different teaching be the same thing and then claim it comes from the same God and then walk around saying that we are all praying to the same God. This cannot be true. With this mighty tool in my hand, I will discuss a few issues that many people always wondered about and could not find the true answer. The information that I will pass on to you will be information that I have gathered over many years as an individual deep delver into all the teachings out there. I will endeavor to pass only the Truth and I am always willing to change my views if you out there could provide the proof from the Bible, the only source that I use. I do not attend any church on a regular basis and is not a member of any church.

In the beginning only God existed as the only Holy Spirit. He then created Jesus Christ as His only Son, also the first created being. Jesus was a God, just as His Father and also a Holy Spirit. So, there were two Holy Spirits in heaven. He also created angels. After some time, a third of the angels rebelled against God and there was war in heaven. Jesus Christ and His angels fought against Satan and his angels and Jesus Christ won the war. Satan and his angels were cast onto this earth. The earth was still in a mess, ie. the water was not separated from the earth etc. Jesus Christ got the instruction from God to create the earth etc. and Jesus then proceeded to create the earth, animals, plants etc. and eventually Adam and Eve. This was done in 7 literal days and not 7 periods.

Satan immediately started with his deception etc. to destroy God's newest addition to His family, Adam and Eve and Satan achieved it by getting them to sin. God was very upset about this but luckily for us, God already had a Salvation Plan in place for His children to be saved. The plan was for Jesus to come to this earth to tell the people about God and to get them to follow Jesus and become children of God. But that also meant that Jesus had to give up His Godly status and to become totally man. This means that only one Holy Spirit was left in Heaven.

Mankind started filling this earth and sin grew by the day. Eventually this earth was full of sin and God was very upset. This was round about two thousand years after creation. The big flood occurred and most of mankind was destroyed. Only Noah and his family plus the animals God selected were saved.

The earth became filled up with people again and there were a lot of sin. God then decided to send His Son Jesus Christ to this earth. This was also round about two thousand years after the big flood.

Jesus was born in Bethlehem and grew up as a carpenter but also studied the written Word of God. He made sure that the written Word was in line with God's Truth as He obviously knew what was right and wrong. With the same Word, He taught many people the Truth and who God really is. He also demonstrated the power of God by healing the sick and even raised people from the dead.

You may now ask, how is it possible for a man to do these miracles. Well, God gave Jesus healing powers when He was baptized by John the baptist. So, it was the power of the Holy Spirit, which was God at that stage, that worked through Jesus Christ, that healed mankind. Jesus was only a tool that God used. There was NO other Holy Spirit on this world.

Jesus also had to teach mankind what real love is. Love towards God and towards your neighbours. A lot of people do not realize that this love is not just a warm feeling inside you. God's love is measurable. God gave His requirements to Adam and Eve already but at mount Sinai He wrote His requirements on two stone tablets and gave it to Moses. That was the Will of God or otherwise known as the Law of God or the Ten Commandments. You see, if you steal or murder someone, you show your hate towards that person but if you do not steal or murder, you show your love towards your neighbour.
The first four Commandments refer to the love towards God and the last six Commandments, the love towards your neighbour. The churches love to read these two Commandments on Sundays but do not explain the Truth within it. There will be huge financial implications in their lives if they do so.

A lot of churches today advocate that upholding God's Law, or the Will of God is not necessary anymore. It is so far from the truth. The old laws regarding circumcision, meat preparations, special Sabbaths etc. were abolished with the death of Jesus Christ, but the upholding of God's Law is still valid today. Jesus Christ held God's Law and we are instructed in His Word, that we need to uphold the Law of God until Jesus comes again. Yes, that is until Jesus Christ comes on a cloud again to collect the Saved ones, also referred to as the First Coming.

Now, most of the churches ignores one commandment of God. That is the fourth commandment regarding the Sabbath.
There is nobody on the earth that will provide me proof from the original Bible, that today's Sabbath is Sunday. Anybody who has such proof, must provide it to me and he/she will be US$50000 richer and if you cannot do that, please donate only US$10 to this web-site. I challenge all the priests, pastors and ministers of all churches to provide me with this proof. I do not want a theory based on events or what someone has said, I want the verse that quotes the fact that the Sabbath is the Sunday. The seven day cycle has never changed from creation till now. The seventh day, thousands of years ago is still the seventh day today. It is similar to a clock with the the 12 at the top.

Where did the confusion come in you may ask. Well, about 325AD, there was a Roman Emperor with the name of Constantine, also the head of the Roman Catholic Church, who brought the hour of worship on a Sunday to cater for those people who were sun-god-worshippers and changed to Christian worshipping, which meant that they could just change venues like one who would change from the Baptist Church to the Methodist Church on the same day. This usage became the norm and now, about 2000 years later, people don't realize the importance of the subtle change that Satan has implemented. Yes, Satan got it right to change God's law without people realizing it today, and that he did by using the church. Yes, most of the churches today advocate and teach that Sunday is the Sabbath day whilst Saturday is the true Sabbath day.

Now, coming back to the Law or Will of God, Jesus Christ and a lot of His disciples confirmed that if you Love God, you will obey ALL His commandments. That is the basis of true Godly love. If you ignore this fact, there is no hope for you. This is very serious. God forgives upon true repentence and only after you have done His Will. Are you one of them? Are you really repenting the breaking of the true Sabbath? Just remember, Jesus Christ held the Sabbath and He told people that if you love God, you must OBEY HIS COMMANDMENTS. That is the Truth, nothing more and nothing less.

What about the person who holds all the laws but do not believe in God or Jesus Christ you may ask. I doubt if anybody will uphold God's Laws and at the same time not believe in God. The first requirement to become a child of God is to accept Jesus Christ as God's Son and to believe and trust Him with your whole heart, sole and mind. Then you need to show and live your love towards God and your neigbour by upholding God's Law. If you do not fulfill this requirement, I do believe that the person who do not believe in God and Jesus Christ, will not be saved. For the person who believes and trust in Jesus Christ and God, it will not be a burden to obey the Commandments as you will enjoy doing it because you will know in your heart that you are doing what God wants you to do and you will be a better person and that salvation is possible for you.

When Jesus accomplished all the deeds that God gave Him on this earth, He had to sacrifice His life to enable mankind to be saved. Yes, Jesus took upon His shoulders all the sin of this world when He died on the cross as our Saviour. How great is that to know that we can still be saved from all our sins. We need to repent, repent and repent and to believe and trust in Jesus Christ and God.

Jesus Christ was resurrected by God and only when He went to sit on the right hand side of God, did the Holy Spirit exist on this world. I believe, that is the time when God gave Jesus Christ some of His Godly powers that He had before He gave up His deity status, back to Him which included Omnipotence, that is the ability to be in heaven and at the same time to be on this earth as the Holy Spirit. That is why Jesus said, "When two or more are gathered in My Name, there I will be." Jesus, as the true Holy Spirit, and not another person, will be amongst us.

This also solves the problem that I had with the Two Thrones in the New Jerusalem and not Three. The fact that Jesus Christ as the High Priest and still man, and God as the Holy Spirit, will be amongst their own people in the New Jerusalem, there will be no need for a third throne for a third Holy Spirit. That also clears the matter of the Trinity concept and teaching which is not true.

Well, I hope and believe that somebody out there has learnt something valuable. This is a summary of many years of studies. It is free and there is no charge. It is not everyday that you will receive something for nothing. Enjoy the reading and feel free to write to me if you feel that I have overstepped.

I thank you for your time and patience to read through this document. If you are really earnest in your search of the Real Truth, God will open your eyes to see it. Believe and Trust in Him. That is the only path.

I have given you what I believe is the real Truth and I pray that God will bless you with this knowledge.


[/FONT]
I was completely lost after the point when you said there were two Spirits. This seems to be where you fell off track. There is no proof within the Bible to support any of the rest of your "theory ".
 
Feb 17, 2013
1,034
9
0
When Jesus died on the cross his body went to the tomb. His spirit went to paradise (I will not go into detail at this point that is a another discussion). I will post this, Jesus said to the thief on the cross "today you shall be with Me in paradise". He went there to take the captivity captive. That is to say all the folks that believed before the cross went to paradise. Because their sins were only covered and not forgiven until Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice. Then on the third day he was raised. According to the Father and by the Holy Spirit . The three acting as one.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,353
186
63
So God died on the cross?
God the Son yes, and this part is only half the Gospel, the death's purpose was to take away the sin that caused death issue from Father's vantage point so that Father upon ones belief in seeing what the death did then can agree with God and see their own death and ask forGod to raise them frfom the dead just as Father raised Chjrist from the dead, a good description of this act to the full Gospel which is life oin the Spirit of God is found Romans 6:1-6:11. Also to see what the full Gospel is found
Romans 5:10For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!
And we get this understanding by first reckoning oneself alse dead to the sin of this world and by this we are alive anew by the resurrection of Christ. If no ressurection then we are still in our sins. But he did rise and that is the full Gospel and therefore by beleif we died to and were born again by the resurrection. Bible is real clear on it being by belief that one does the engrafted word notice engrafted.
Romans 4:24but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.
Romans 6:1[ Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ ] What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?
Romans 6:4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. ( I believe that this is Holy Ghost Baptism not water)
Romans 6:9For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him.
Romans 6:11In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Romans 7:4So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.
Romans 8:11And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.
THe new way of life through trust in what has been done is awesome and I am incredibly thankful
and thanks to you JLHILLsSR
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,353
186
63
Rambling on to be noticed without facts or any logical comments will not be accepted in my books. There are too many out there doing exactly the same and that is why this whole world is confused. It is obvious from your scrambled reply that your god is not the same as my God. If you do want to reply to my writing, please supply me with proper logical facts extracted from the Bible. Prove to me that I am wrong. ie 1 Joh 2:4, 2 Joh 1:6, James 2:10, Mat 19:17, Rom 13:6-10, 1 Tim 6:14. You will love the last text. There are many more I can give you. If you cannot do that, swallow your pride and start to study the Word of God. I will help you if that is OK.
Frank love youand no needfrom you to show me an dno need forme to show you. Hoping you are free in him. I am and I am judged of God or better yet have already been judged and set free in his lavishing Love by and through the cross of Christ, the truth has set me free fom any and all bondage(s) this world that it has. And I know this is all jibberish to you as you already said.
No need to pull out sword(s) as Peter did. There is a distinct differance between flesh and Spirit of God. Just like between the world and God. The two can't mix and never will because his kingdom is not of this world
Thank you for your comment love Homwardbound
 
Nov 19, 2012
5,484
27
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So, who went into death?


1 Peter 3.18

Because even Christ once suffered concerning sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God; indeed being put to death in flesh,but made alive in Spirit;