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I think the 'gifts of the spirit of God' ceased with writing of the Bible. The gospel could be shared more easily once it was written (until the Catholic church banned lay folk from reading it).
The Bible does say that shortly before the return of Christ gifts will return. But it doesn't say how near the return or what gifts.
The important thing is that they are not given now. And so the person you hear speaking in tongues or giving prophecies or healing with a touch.... well, I'll leave the conclusion up to you
The Bible does say that shortly before the return of Christ gifts will return. But it doesn't say how near the return or what gifts.
The important thing is that they are not given now. And so the person you hear speaking in tongues or giving prophecies or healing with a touch.... well, I'll leave the conclusion up to you
I think the 'gifts of the spirit of God' ceased with writing of the Bible. The gospel could be shared more easily once it was written (until the Catholic church banned lay folk from reading it).
The Bible does say that shortly before the return of Christ gifts will return. But it doesn't say how near the return or what gifts.
The important thing is that they are not given now. And so the person you hear speaking in tongues or giving prophecies or healing with a touch.... well, I'll leave the conclusion up to you
The Bible does say that shortly before the return of Christ gifts will return. But it doesn't say how near the return or what gifts.
The important thing is that they are not given now. And so the person you hear speaking in tongues or giving prophecies or healing with a touch.... well, I'll leave the conclusion up to you
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Matt7v7-11: "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish,will he give him a serpent? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him!
Luke 11v9-13: "So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. If a son asks for bread from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will hegive him a serpent instead of a fish? Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!"
YOU CANNOT GET ANY BAD THING FROM YOUR HEAVENLY FATHER WHEN YOU ASK AND SEEK HIM FOR IT!
If you ask Him for the Holy Spirit, you will get the Holy Spirit!
If you ask Him for spiritual gifts, you will get spiritual gifts!
IT IS AS SIMPLE AS THAT!
I have written some of the above in BIG letters so that it is absolutely clear so that those suffering from spiritual myopia might grasp this reality!
Luke 11v9-13: "So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. If a son asks for bread from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will hegive him a serpent instead of a fish? Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!"
YOU CANNOT GET ANY BAD THING FROM YOUR HEAVENLY FATHER WHEN YOU ASK AND SEEK HIM FOR IT!
If you ask Him for the Holy Spirit, you will get the Holy Spirit!
If you ask Him for spiritual gifts, you will get spiritual gifts!
IT IS AS SIMPLE AS THAT!
I have written some of the above in BIG letters so that it is absolutely clear so that those suffering from spiritual myopia might grasp this reality!
I think part of the problem is in the translation. For example, the 'tongues shall cease'. When the Messiah returns to restore all things one of the things He restores is a pure, single, spiritual language (Zeph. 3). So the 'tongue' that we now know in part will be restored and known in full. Thus the actual speaking will not cease, but it will cease to be known as a tongue, since it will in fact be our native language. If at that time some were to speak in english, then english would be known as the tongue since it would then be known in part and not in full.
You're right. Translation is a huge part of the difference in these passages. "Perfect" has many different views. Some say its when Christ returns. Others say its when written word of God was completed. Hopefully we can discuss it without everyone at each others "throats".
I will say that I've seen people say some cruel and harsh things about cessationists. That we are spiritually impotent. That we believe God is dead, and we will suffer for eternity. Even called "so called believers in God". These accusations are offensive and unchristian. I will participate in this thread as long as said comments do not arise.
I will say that I've seen people say some cruel and harsh things about cessationists. That we are spiritually impotent. That we believe God is dead, and we will suffer for eternity. Even called "so called believers in God". These accusations are offensive and unchristian. I will participate in this thread as long as said comments do not arise.
This has always been one of my favorite themes, and I look forward to being with the family in Christ, calling upon our Lord in a pure tongue, one name and of one accord. Zep 3:9
(ASV) For then will I turn to the peoples of a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of Jehovah, to serve him with one consent.
(Darby) For then will I turn to the peoples a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of Jehovah, to serve him with one consent.
(DRB) Because then I will restore to the people a chosen lip, that all may call upon the name of the Lord, and may serve him with one shoulder.
(FDB) Car alors, je changerai la langue des peuples en une langue purifiée, pour qu'ils invoquent tous le nom de l'Éternel pour le servir d'un seul coeur.
(FLS) Alors je donnerai aux peuples des lèvres pures, Afin qu'ils invoquent tous le nom de l'Éternel, Pour le servir d'un commun accord.
(HOT) כי־אז אהפך אל־עמים שׂפה ברורה לקרא כלם בשׁם יהוה לעבדו שׁכם אחד׃
(HOT+) כיH3588 אזH227 אהפךH2015 אלH413 עמיםH5971 שׂפהH8193 ברורהH1305 לקראH7121 כלםH3605 בשׁםH8034 יהוהH3068 לעבדוH5647 שׁכםH7926 אחד׃H259
(INR) Allora io trasformerò le labbra dei popoli in labbra pure, affinché tutti invochino il nome del SIGNORE, per servirlo di comune accordo.
(IRL) Poiché allora io muterò in labbra pure le labbra dei popoli, affinché tutti invochino il nome dell'Eterno, per servirlo di pari consentimento.
(JPS) For then will I turn to the peoples a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve Him with one consent.
(KJV) For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.
(KJV+) ForH3588 thenH227 will I turnH2015 toH413 the peopleH5971 a pureH1305 language,H8193 that they may allH3605 callH7121 upon the nameH8034 of the LORD,H3068 to serveH5647 him with oneH259 consent.H7926
(ROB) Atunci voi da popoarelor buze curate, ca toate să se roage Domnului şi cu râvnă să-I slujească Lui.
(SSE) Porque entonces volveré yo a los pueblos el lenguaje puro, para que todos invoquen el nombre del SEÑOR, para que de un solo consentimiento le sirvan.
(Vulgate) quia tunc reddam populis labium electum ut vocent omnes in nomine Domini et serviant ei umero uno
(Webster) For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.
(ASV) For then will I turn to the peoples of a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of Jehovah, to serve him with one consent.
(Darby) For then will I turn to the peoples a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of Jehovah, to serve him with one consent.
(DRB) Because then I will restore to the people a chosen lip, that all may call upon the name of the Lord, and may serve him with one shoulder.
(FDB) Car alors, je changerai la langue des peuples en une langue purifiée, pour qu'ils invoquent tous le nom de l'Éternel pour le servir d'un seul coeur.
(FLS) Alors je donnerai aux peuples des lèvres pures, Afin qu'ils invoquent tous le nom de l'Éternel, Pour le servir d'un commun accord.
(HOT) כי־אז אהפך אל־עמים שׂפה ברורה לקרא כלם בשׁם יהוה לעבדו שׁכם אחד׃
(HOT+) כיH3588 אזH227 אהפךH2015 אלH413 עמיםH5971 שׂפהH8193 ברורהH1305 לקראH7121 כלםH3605 בשׁםH8034 יהוהH3068 לעבדוH5647 שׁכםH7926 אחד׃H259
(INR) Allora io trasformerò le labbra dei popoli in labbra pure, affinché tutti invochino il nome del SIGNORE, per servirlo di comune accordo.
(IRL) Poiché allora io muterò in labbra pure le labbra dei popoli, affinché tutti invochino il nome dell'Eterno, per servirlo di pari consentimento.
(JPS) For then will I turn to the peoples a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve Him with one consent.
(KJV) For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.
(KJV+) ForH3588 thenH227 will I turnH2015 toH413 the peopleH5971 a pureH1305 language,H8193 that they may allH3605 callH7121 upon the nameH8034 of the LORD,H3068 to serveH5647 him with oneH259 consent.H7926
(ROB) Atunci voi da popoarelor buze curate, ca toate să se roage Domnului şi cu râvnă să-I slujească Lui.
(SSE) Porque entonces volveré yo a los pueblos el lenguaje puro, para que todos invoquen el nombre del SEÑOR, para que de un solo consentimiento le sirvan.
(Vulgate) quia tunc reddam populis labium electum ut vocent omnes in nomine Domini et serviant ei umero uno
(Webster) For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.
Fifty Things That You Should Know About Tongues and Healing
1. The Jews, as a nation, began with signs (Rom. 4:11; Exo. 4:8, 9, 17, 28, 30; 7:3; 8:23; 10:1-2; 13:9; 31:13, 17; Deu. 4:34; 6:22).
2. The Old Testament Jews lived by signs (Deu. 11:18; Jos. 4:6; 1 Sam. 10:7; 2 Kgs. 19:29; Isa. 7:14; 38:7, 22; Ezk. 4:3; 20:12, 20).
3. The Jews demanded signs from the Lord Jesus Christ (Mat. 12:38; 16:1-4; 24:3; Jhn. 2:18; 6:30).
4. The Jews require a sign, not the Gentiles (1 Cor. 1:22; Jhn. 4:48).
5. According to the Lord Jesus Christ, the gifts of tongues and healing are signs (Mar. 16:16-20).
6. These signs were for the purpose of confirming the word of God (Acts 14:3; Heb. 2:3-4).
7. These signs are spoken of in the past tense in 2 Corinthians 12:12 and in Hebrews 2:3-4, not in the present or future tense.
8. Those who still look for signs and wonders today are on dangerous ground for the Antichrist will deceive the world with signs and wonders (Rev. 13:13-14; 2 Ths. 2:8-12).
9. The Lord Jesus Christ said that an evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign (Mat. 12:39).
10. The Bible speaks of various spiritual gifts to believers, but tongues and healing are never emphasized more than the other gifts (1 Cor. 12:4-11).
11. The gifts of tongues and healing were not considered the best gifts (1 Cor. 12:28-31).
12. The gift of healing was a sign (Mar. 16:17-18; Exo. 4:6-8; 2 Kgs. 20:8-9).
13. It is not God's will for all Christians to be healed (2 Cor. 12:5-10).
14. The apostle Paul could not heal himself (2 Cor. 12:5-10).
15. Near the end of his ministry, Paul could not heal Trophimus (2 Tim. 4:20).
16. Instead of healing Timothy, Paul gave him medical advice (1 Tim. 5:23).
17. Contrary to the modern faith healers, "love gifts" and "faith offerings" were not a part of the healing ministries of the disciples (Mat. 10:8-9).
18. A Christian who hasn't confessed his sins and repented of them has no business expecting God to heal him of anything (Psa. 6:1-4; 41:4; 2 Chr. 7:14; Hos. 5:10-13; 1 Cor. 11:29-32; Jas. 5:14-16; 1 Jhn. 1:7-10).
19. If modern faith healers really have the gift of healing, then they should prove their ministry by visiting hospitals and nursing homes and healing the sick, rather than writing books, holding healing meetings, and begging for money on television (2 Tim. 4:5; Mat. 10:8-16; 1 Tim. 6:5-10).
20. Satan has the power to heal and this will cause millions to be led astray in the coming Tribulation Period (Rev. 13:1-4, 12).
21. The gift of tongues was given as a sign (Mar. 16:17; 1 Cor. 14:22).
22. The gift of tongues was the supernatural ability of some Christians to speak in foreign languages in the presence of unbelieving Jews (Acts 2:7-11).
23. God has never caused or commanded Christians to speak in unknown tongues (Mar. 16:17; Acts 2:4; 1 Cor. 12:10; 1 Cor. 14).
24. The Bible never says once that tongues is the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
25. There is no baptism of the Holy Ghost in 1 Corinthians 14.
26. Paul said that all true Christians were baptized into the body of Christ by the Holy Ghost (1 Cor. 12:13), and all true Christians were sealed with the Holy Ghost until the day of redemption (Eph. 4:30), but all Christians did not speak in tongues (1 Cor. 12:29-31).
27. The Bible never says that the baptism of the Holy Ghost is a second Christian experience or blessing.
28. The baptism of fire is the condemnation of the wicked in Hell (Mat. 3:11-12), not being "on fire for the Lord."
29. Acts 2:3 speaks of "cloven tongues LIKE AS of fire," but the Book of Acts says nothing at all about tongues of fire or a baptism of fire.
30. If a person does not have the spirit of Christ, he has no business waiting for the baptism of the Holy Ghost, because he doesn't even belong to Christ (Rom. 8:9).
31. Pentecost was never a religious movement, or a religious experience. It was a Jewish feast day which always occurred fifty days after the Passover (Lev. 23:15-22 ).
32. Jesus said that when the Holy Ghost came He (the Holy Ghost) would not speak of Himself, because He would glorify Christ (Jhn. 16:13-14).
33. No Christian in the Bible is ever told to pray, preach, sing, or praise God in tongues.
34. The disciples received the Holy Ghost in John 20:22, but they did not speak in tongues when this happened.
35. The filling of the Spirit in Acts 4:31 and Eph. 5:18-20 does not include speaking in tongues.
36. When speaking of spiritual gifts in Ephesians 4:8-12, Paul does not mention tongues.
37. There were only three cases in the Book of Acts where people spoke in tongues (not unknown tongues), and these tongues were a sign to the Jews each time, because the Jews require a sign (Acts 2:1-11; 10:44-46; 19:6-8; 1 Cor. 1:22; 14:22).
38. The former and latter rain of Joel 2 has nothing to do with Acts 2 or the modern-day Charismatic Movement, because the rain of Joel 2 is literal wet rain from the sky in Israel (Joel 2:1-31).
39. Tongues are not even mentioned in the list of spiritual gifts in Romans 12:6-8.
40. Although tongues (not unknown tongues) were permitted in 1 Corinthians 14 (because there was a Jewish synagogue in Corinth - Acts 18:1-4), they were not encouraged because tongues did not edify the church (1 Cor. 14:4-5, 26).
41. It is better to speak five words clearly than ten thousand with an unknown tongue (1 Cor. 14:19).
42. No more than three people were allowed to speak in tongues in the church assembly, and then only one could speak at a time (1 Cor. 14:27).
43. No one was permitted to speak in tongues in the church without an interpreter (1 Cor. 14:27-28).
44. Women were not allowed to speak in tongues in the church (1 Cor. 14:34-35).
45. Those who did speak in tongues (foreign languages) had power over their own spirit (1 Cor. 14:32).
46. A religious man who doesn't bridle his tongue is deceived and he has a vain religion (Jas. 1:26).
47. Many "seducing spirits" are in the world and it is every Christian's duty to "try" these spirits (1 Tim. 4:1; I Jhn. 4:1; Rev. 2:2).
48. The word of God is the standard by which we are to judge all doctrines (Isa. 8:20; 2 Tim. 3:16-17).
49. He that is spiritual judges all things (1 Cor. 2:15).
50. Teaching the Scriptural Truth about signs, healing, and tongues is not a matter of being mean, prejudiced, or intolerant. It is simply a matter of obeying the command to RIGHTLY DIVIDE God's word (2 Tim. 2:15).
Copyright © 1995 James L. Melton
Fifty Things That You Should Know About Tongues and Healing
1. The Jews, as a nation, began with signs (Rom. 4:11; Exo. 4:8, 9, 17, 28, 30; 7:3; 8:23; 10:1-2; 13:9; 31:13, 17; Deu. 4:34; 6:22).
2. The Old Testament Jews lived by signs (Deu. 11:18; Jos. 4:6; 1 Sam. 10:7; 2 Kgs. 19:29; Isa. 7:14; 38:7, 22; Ezk. 4:3; 20:12, 20).
3. The Jews demanded signs from the Lord Jesus Christ (Mat. 12:38; 16:1-4; 24:3; Jhn. 2:18; 6:30).
4. The Jews require a sign, not the Gentiles (1 Cor. 1:22; Jhn. 4:48).
5. According to the Lord Jesus Christ, the gifts of tongues and healing are signs (Mar. 16:16-20).
6. These signs were for the purpose of confirming the word of God (Acts 14:3; Heb. 2:3-4).
7. These signs are spoken of in the past tense in 2 Corinthians 12:12 and in Hebrews 2:3-4, not in the present or future tense.
8. Those who still look for signs and wonders today are on dangerous ground for the Antichrist will deceive the world with signs and wonders (Rev. 13:13-14; 2 Ths. 2:8-12).
9. The Lord Jesus Christ said that an evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign (Mat. 12:39).
10. The Bible speaks of various spiritual gifts to believers, but tongues and healing are never emphasized more than the other gifts (1 Cor. 12:4-11).
11. The gifts of tongues and healing were not considered the best gifts (1 Cor. 12:28-31).
12. The gift of healing was a sign (Mar. 16:17-18; Exo. 4:6-8; 2 Kgs. 20:8-9).
13. It is not God's will for all Christians to be healed (2 Cor. 12:5-10).
14. The apostle Paul could not heal himself (2 Cor. 12:5-10).
15. Near the end of his ministry, Paul could not heal Trophimus (2 Tim. 4:20).
16. Instead of healing Timothy, Paul gave him medical advice (1 Tim. 5:23).
17. Contrary to the modern faith healers, "love gifts" and "faith offerings" were not a part of the healing ministries of the disciples (Mat. 10:8-9).
18. A Christian who hasn't confessed his sins and repented of them has no business expecting God to heal him of anything (Psa. 6:1-4; 41:4; 2 Chr. 7:14; Hos. 5:10-13; 1 Cor. 11:29-32; Jas. 5:14-16; 1 Jhn. 1:7-10).
19. If modern faith healers really have the gift of healing, then they should prove their ministry by visiting hospitals and nursing homes and healing the sick, rather than writing books, holding healing meetings, and begging for money on television (2 Tim. 4:5; Mat. 10:8-16; 1 Tim. 6:5-10).
20. Satan has the power to heal and this will cause millions to be led astray in the coming Tribulation Period (Rev. 13:1-4, 12).
21. The gift of tongues was given as a sign (Mar. 16:17; 1 Cor. 14:22).
22. The gift of tongues was the supernatural ability of some Christians to speak in foreign languages in the presence of unbelieving Jews (Acts 2:7-11).
23. God has never caused or commanded Christians to speak in unknown tongues (Mar. 16:17; Acts 2:4; 1 Cor. 12:10; 1 Cor. 14).
24. The Bible never says once that tongues is the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
25. There is no baptism of the Holy Ghost in 1 Corinthians 14.
26. Paul said that all true Christians were baptized into the body of Christ by the Holy Ghost (1 Cor. 12:13), and all true Christians were sealed with the Holy Ghost until the day of redemption (Eph. 4:30), but all Christians did not speak in tongues (1 Cor. 12:29-31).
27. The Bible never says that the baptism of the Holy Ghost is a second Christian experience or blessing.
28. The baptism of fire is the condemnation of the wicked in Hell (Mat. 3:11-12), not being "on fire for the Lord."
29. Acts 2:3 speaks of "cloven tongues LIKE AS of fire," but the Book of Acts says nothing at all about tongues of fire or a baptism of fire.
30. If a person does not have the spirit of Christ, he has no business waiting for the baptism of the Holy Ghost, because he doesn't even belong to Christ (Rom. 8:9).
31. Pentecost was never a religious movement, or a religious experience. It was a Jewish feast day which always occurred fifty days after the Passover (Lev. 23:15-22 ).
32. Jesus said that when the Holy Ghost came He (the Holy Ghost) would not speak of Himself, because He would glorify Christ (Jhn. 16:13-14).
33. No Christian in the Bible is ever told to pray, preach, sing, or praise God in tongues.
34. The disciples received the Holy Ghost in John 20:22, but they did not speak in tongues when this happened.
35. The filling of the Spirit in Acts 4:31 and Eph. 5:18-20 does not include speaking in tongues.
36. When speaking of spiritual gifts in Ephesians 4:8-12, Paul does not mention tongues.
37. There were only three cases in the Book of Acts where people spoke in tongues (not unknown tongues), and these tongues were a sign to the Jews each time, because the Jews require a sign (Acts 2:1-11; 10:44-46; 19:6-8; 1 Cor. 1:22; 14:22).
38. The former and latter rain of Joel 2 has nothing to do with Acts 2 or the modern-day Charismatic Movement, because the rain of Joel 2 is literal wet rain from the sky in Israel (Joel 2:1-31).
39. Tongues are not even mentioned in the list of spiritual gifts in Romans 12:6-8.
40. Although tongues (not unknown tongues) were permitted in 1 Corinthians 14 (because there was a Jewish synagogue in Corinth - Acts 18:1-4), they were not encouraged because tongues did not edify the church (1 Cor. 14:4-5, 26).
41. It is better to speak five words clearly than ten thousand with an unknown tongue (1 Cor. 14:19).
42. No more than three people were allowed to speak in tongues in the church assembly, and then only one could speak at a time (1 Cor. 14:27).
43. No one was permitted to speak in tongues in the church without an interpreter (1 Cor. 14:27-28).
44. Women were not allowed to speak in tongues in the church (1 Cor. 14:34-35).
45. Those who did speak in tongues (foreign languages) had power over their own spirit (1 Cor. 14:32).
46. A religious man who doesn't bridle his tongue is deceived and he has a vain religion (Jas. 1:26).
47. Many "seducing spirits" are in the world and it is every Christian's duty to "try" these spirits (1 Tim. 4:1; I Jhn. 4:1; Rev. 2:2).
48. The word of God is the standard by which we are to judge all doctrines (Isa. 8:20; 2 Tim. 3:16-17).
49. He that is spiritual judges all things (1 Cor. 2:15).
50. Teaching the Scriptural Truth about signs, healing, and tongues is not a matter of being mean, prejudiced, or intolerant. It is simply a matter of obeying the command to RIGHTLY DIVIDE God's word (2 Tim. 2:15).
Copyright © 1995 James L. Melton
Fifty Things That You Should Know About Tongues and Healing
A
Ive belonged to both charismatic and cessationists groups.
The only difference to me was that I could see the Holyspirits
work in the gifts in all the believers in the cessationists groups clearer
since there was the lack of emotional hype and selfpromotion and
the running after externals...but more tendency towards fruit then gifts.
The only difference to me was that I could see the Holyspirits
work in the gifts in all the believers in the cessationists groups clearer
since there was the lack of emotional hype and selfpromotion and
the running after externals...but more tendency towards fruit then gifts.
For the sake of understanding, I believe this is worth repeating. Anyone who has experienced a miracle in the name of our Lord, Jesus Christ, is able to say by the Holy Spirit that miracles do occur. These people do not look for miracles, they serve God, and God uses them. The same hold true for signs. Those who believe Jesus Christ do not look for signs as did thos hypocrites who asked Him for a sign to prove Who He is, the signs come because they do not ask, but they are given. As for visions, again, anyone who has had a vision has received it from above, though not petitioned, they simply are given.
Now no one can say by the Holy Spirit that miracles do not occur, nor signs, nor visions. No one can limit God's will to an opinion. All of us who are saved by the Blood of Jesus Christ are open to whatever God may want for us regarding service to Him. Again, that sinful generation asking for a sign was an unbelieving generation (flesh) not those who believe. Also, again, those who experience the power of God only do for the glory of God Almighty in the name of Jesus Christ. Signs and wonders are not demanded to prove God, they are given to those who serve God, without asking.
Now no one can say by the Holy Spirit that miracles do not occur, nor signs, nor visions. No one can limit God's will to an opinion. All of us who are saved by the Blood of Jesus Christ are open to whatever God may want for us regarding service to Him. Again, that sinful generation asking for a sign was an unbelieving generation (flesh) not those who believe. Also, again, those who experience the power of God only do for the glory of God Almighty in the name of Jesus Christ. Signs and wonders are not demanded to prove God, they are given to those who serve God, without asking.
C
Actually the gifts of the spirit are found in 1 Corinthians 12:28
First are apostles
Second are prophets
third are teachers
Then those who do miracles
those who have the gift of healing
those who can help others
Those who have the gift of leadership
Those who speak in unknown languages
If women are not supposed to speak in tongues I don't believe God would have given me the gift, yet I have it
First are apostles
Second are prophets
third are teachers
Then those who do miracles
those who have the gift of healing
those who can help others
Those who have the gift of leadership
Those who speak in unknown languages
If women are not supposed to speak in tongues I don't believe God would have given me the gift, yet I have it
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According to Paul tongues was permitted only if there was someone who could interpret, otherwise what good is it to have someone interupting a service with words amounting only to babble to the congregation. It makes perfect sense.
As for tongues being a sign, this was at Pentecost, and it was a sign to the multitudes present who were of varied languages, each heard the Apostles speaking in their own tongue, and they marveled, and many were converted to Jesus Christ on the spot. The gift of tongues in a congregation was not a sign, for those who already believe do not need a sign, the gift was prophesy for the congregation, obviously only if there was someone present with the gift or knowledge to interpret. All of this is in the Word. Read the Word, believe God.
As for tongues being a sign, this was at Pentecost, and it was a sign to the multitudes present who were of varied languages, each heard the Apostles speaking in their own tongue, and they marveled, and many were converted to Jesus Christ on the spot. The gift of tongues in a congregation was not a sign, for those who already believe do not need a sign, the gift was prophesy for the congregation, obviously only if there was someone present with the gift or knowledge to interpret. All of this is in the Word. Read the Word, believe God.
1
I don't know if we can pinpoint a scripture that says there is no more new revelation or scripture to be written.
Yet MOST believe that we can't expect more scripture coming down the hatch from God.
Well unless you're a Mormon, Branch Davidian or other strain of cult.
I see the fruits of what is now known as the modern miracles/dreams/visions/whatever movement, and I have not one ounce been edified by it. It's brought me nothing but confusion. It doesn't line up whatsoever with what is in the Bible. It's a hollow shell of what we see in the Bible. So that's why I don't embrace it. Simply because what is manifested today isn't Biblical at all, whatsoever and only gives room for confusion. Many accept it today because they "don't want to limit God." But in fact they are limiting God because they exchange his living word for a hollow shell.
What brings me less confusion, and more peace, is simply relying on what's revealed in scripture.
It makes sense.
It's all there.
I don't need someone to tell me through a prophecy/vision/whatever, ...
1. What's already in the Bible...
2. Something that isn't even in the Bible.
Even non-cessationists are cessationists, because they believe there is no more new scripture to be written.
Since God is sovereign, and runs his church as he wills, and since I don't see an exact replica of what's in the Bible as far as revelatory spiritual gifts are concerned, I'm lead to conclude they've ceased. If he wanted them, he'd keep them. And what we have now is surely a counterfeit if you honestly test it against scripture.
Yet MOST believe that we can't expect more scripture coming down the hatch from God.
Well unless you're a Mormon, Branch Davidian or other strain of cult.
I see the fruits of what is now known as the modern miracles/dreams/visions/whatever movement, and I have not one ounce been edified by it. It's brought me nothing but confusion. It doesn't line up whatsoever with what is in the Bible. It's a hollow shell of what we see in the Bible. So that's why I don't embrace it. Simply because what is manifested today isn't Biblical at all, whatsoever and only gives room for confusion. Many accept it today because they "don't want to limit God." But in fact they are limiting God because they exchange his living word for a hollow shell.
What brings me less confusion, and more peace, is simply relying on what's revealed in scripture.
It makes sense.
It's all there.
I don't need someone to tell me through a prophecy/vision/whatever, ...
1. What's already in the Bible...
2. Something that isn't even in the Bible.
Even non-cessationists are cessationists, because they believe there is no more new scripture to be written.
Since God is sovereign, and runs his church as he wills, and since I don't see an exact replica of what's in the Bible as far as revelatory spiritual gifts are concerned, I'm lead to conclude they've ceased. If he wanted them, he'd keep them. And what we have now is surely a counterfeit if you honestly test it against scripture.
Does everyone know that prophesy is not necessarily predicting events? The spirit of prophesy is simple; it is the confession that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. He is our Savior. It is in the Word, in Revelation.
As for any of the gifts being for the purpose of new writings, read the Word, if you already have, read it again, it says nothing about these gifts being for such a purpose. With the knowledge of what prophesy is then, we know it is for edification and exhortation of our fellows in Christ.
Many people are all to quick to quote or cut and paste writings about the Word without reading the Word to verify what is being posted.
Just as God is the same yesterday, today and always, so are His children. Praise God Almight, all glory be to Him, amen.
As for any of the gifts being for the purpose of new writings, read the Word, if you already have, read it again, it says nothing about these gifts being for such a purpose. With the knowledge of what prophesy is then, we know it is for edification and exhortation of our fellows in Christ.
Many people are all to quick to quote or cut and paste writings about the Word without reading the Word to verify what is being posted.
Just as God is the same yesterday, today and always, so are His children. Praise God Almight, all glory be to Him, amen.
A
Prophecy as a manifestation happens alot. People get edified and
dont realize it since it happens supernaturally natural through us
in conversation, preaching etc. The Holyspirit still works in us and through us
but not in such a limited way as some think. Not exactly as in the first century.
God never changes but His methods do as He pleases for His own purposes.
dont realize it since it happens supernaturally natural through us
in conversation, preaching etc. The Holyspirit still works in us and through us
but not in such a limited way as some think. Not exactly as in the first century.
God never changes but His methods do as He pleases for His own purposes.