USURPING AUTHORITY

[crosspreacher]

why that's MI6 operative David Icke.

Just to tell. He looks like my uncle.

 

[1still_waters]

stillwaters.... Please i beseech you... ditch that flashing signature line... PLEEEEZE!

Is better?

 

[GreenNnice]

Isaiah 28:15-19

15*Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

16*Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

17*Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.

18*And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

19*From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.

__________________
What lies refuge?


Look at the plain words of Scripture:

"I SUFFER not a woman to TEACH AUTHORITY (over a man)..."


This verse does not say that woman is not to teach a man about God, for crying out loud.

*green gives ohzone a hankie (with bulgars already on it).

Oh, I was JUST kidding, again, just kidding, zoners The tissue i gave you even had aloe embedded in its very fibers of its being


OK, where was I???

Hmmm, yes, who is teaching authority over who? What are you doing when you teach 'authority,' you are teaching, as anj said, 'domineering,' or, 'domination,' or, how about this word, 'superiority.'

OK, let's stop there, are we in agreement that we've swallowed up a true definition of that first part of 1 Tim. 2:12

Good, then on to the second.

"I suffer not a woman to.....or HAVE AUTHORITY OVER A MAN BUT TO BE SILENT."

Again, am i truly spinning this, am I telling a lie, Paul is plainly saying that he SUFFERS (does not allow, strong dislike, not just 'dislike') not a woman to SWALLOW up, usurp authority over a man. Again, she is not to have domination over a man, it's almost saying the same thing except one is teaching they are in control (false teaching of what the Word says) and one is just plain having control over a man, 'You obey me.'

THIS is what suffers poor ole Paul, who is livid at the men for not lifting holy hands and praying everywhere, or, at least, pretty upset and the woman are not exactly getting kind words because they are helping hold the men back from being led by God's AUTHORITY.

Oooh, think about that last sentence a minute why don't you . The Lord leads.

 

[Stephen63]

what this?



ya...you did.
but if you can't just speak your mind clearly Stephen, i have to wonder why?

i've been through the thread several times.

you say you believe women are to be teachers, even pastors and leaders.
then you say not here....and that's based on ATTITUDE, and behavior.

what i was suggesting is men ought not to be pastors or leaders if their behavior is of the Charismatic variety.
neither should women.

maybe we're just not seeing eye to eye.
you think that's the problem?

i prefer straight-forward.
you know...seeing if what we say and do IN CHURCH lines up with scripture, or if it's something else entirely.

we can worry about the world wide web later maybe?

1. I posted that in your quote window, but I said it to the readers.
2. It seems that I've told you a hundred times, I am a Pentecostal, not a charismatic.
3. I think the reason you love trashing the charismatics so much is because you were once one yourself. Everybody has a bad church or two in their organization. I believe you came out of one of these spiritually damaged. Perhaps you don't realize that psychologically you harp on them all the time. Don't feel bad, you're not the only one that's had that problem with a church.

 

[BarlyGurl]

sure still...

 

[GreenNnice]

1. I posted that in your quote window, but I said it to the readers.
2. It seems that I've told you a hundred times, I am a Pentecostal, not a charismatic.
3. I think the reason you love trashing the charismatics so much is because you were once one yourself. Everybody has a bad church or two in their organization. I believe you came out of one of these spiritually damaged. Perhaps you don't realize that psychologically you harp on them all the time. Don't feel bad, you're not the only one that's had that problem with a church.

Ohzone, we're all in 'this' together, so, why tear us apart ????

Trials and tribulations we will ALL have, but He who is in you has overcome the world. Now, you can believe it's God, or, Jesus, from the bible is telling you this, it is, no doubt, it IS, but, He IS in you, living, breathing, and, sharper, than any two-edged sword. Sharper too, as in smarter. God is smarter than all, by virtue of the fact He knows our thoughts but we, NONE of us can know His. He is our AUTHORITY

 

[GreenNnice]

sure still...

Barleyfangirl, YOU'VE CHANGED ! Personally, I like the old you better, you kind of look like a, hmmm, Balaam's talking mule in this one. Actually, that mule was pretty smart, wasn't he? Huh, total complement then to say now, I think you look GREAT now just the way you are

 

[Stephen63]

steveStephen?
Remember, "Blessed are those who are persecuted, for they...."

I know, i know, persed by fellow believers, really raws my hide, too




________
Ok, I was typing on a small phone screen earlier and typing those little numbers annoys me almost as much as ohzone does on a daily basis, well, without the persecution, anyway. OH< WAIT! That's stevestephen getting 'that.'
And, not just from ohzone, hang, brother, on the wings of Him who made you, who carries you, carries you, carries you afar to a beautiful place of understanding after having waited on Him to first come and pick you up


Okee, so, yes, what was being said is: How can a woman pastor have authority over me? How can she ever even teach authority over me?

The next woman that teaches she's in authority over me I am going to drop kick to China


Now, listen, humor aside, what about a woman pastor speaking of God's Word to you, now, shhhh, quiet, I want you to hear this ! Listen up

Who is revealing the Word's truths to you? That woman pastor (or, man pastor, for that matter), or, He who reveals ALL truth to you. Ohzone about said it, and, stopped sHort....

The "H" starting word, c'mon, you can say it, get in the zone, autozone. Oh, wait, that's not it, how about get into John 16:13 and you will see the 'H' come to life, you will see the Spirit of truth come ALIVE in your life, and, speak softly, yet, more cutting than any other thing/way/person ever could. Sharper !!!

Green, you are so sharp, sometimes, cutting, even. Mean with your authority !

Am I? I have no authority over YOU just like you have NO authority over me. My God, and, my Lord, NOT my pastor has authority over me. My pastor has zip, nada, zilch authority over me. None !!! Never has and guess what! Never will.

God ! God ! God !

who is the same yesterday, as today, as forevermore, He ALONE has COMPLETE and UTTER sovereign authority over my life. The Lord leads. Follow Him . "...you follow Me." John 21:22

Sorry, too of all that garble of that quote one more time, I probably made ohzone's brain spin into the twilight zone. Hey, that just might be just the best place for it ! Ohzone, you know i love you, persecution and all, "they (you) know not what they (you) do, I forgive you, of course, for that." Boy, though, man oh man, is there a lot of forgiving I am always doing for you of others on here, ohzone.

Isn't there a limit, God !!

"No, green, forgive them, 70x7, and, if you don't forgive them, I won't forgive you."

Oooh, Ok, got it, God

Somehow,I actually understood that! LOL!

 

[Stephen63]

sure still...

Now, Barleygurl, you know Stilly doesn't like you flashing that picture of him around...... it doesn't show his best side!

 

[zone]

Is better?

View attachment 44271

LOL

 

[zone]

1. I posted that in your quote window, but I said it to the readers.

k....*cough*

2. It seems that I've told you a hundred times, I am a Pentecostal, not a charismatic.

apples and apples Stephen.

3. I think the reason you love trashing the charismatics so much is because you were once one yourself.

uh....nooooooo.........never was....ever.
i attended a Pentecostal church every 2nd sunday for 3 months when i was in Christian rehab. i had to.
i was never a member, and never once thought any of it was Biblical.

then years later.....i stumbled unknowningly into a Toronto (Cursing) Blessing church and got a kundalini spirit passed to me and had to fast and pray for deliverance.

that's all.

plus tons of visits to watch in person, and document.
and 11 years and endless hours of research.

so...ya. you're wrong. i weren't never one.

Everybody has a bad church or two in their organization. I believe you came out of one of these spiritually damaged. Perhaps you don't realize that psychologically you harp on them all the time. Don't feel bad, you're not the only one that's had that problem with a church.

nice try.
it wasn't the church, it's the spirits in it.

i don't psychologically harp on it dear friend.
i stand against it cuz it ain't right.

so, we're good?

 

[Stephen63]

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Toronto Blessing, a term coined by British newspapers, describes the revival and resulting phenomena that began in January 1994 at the Toronto Airport Vineyard church, now the Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship (TACF), a neocharismatic evangelical Christianchurch located in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.[SUP][1][/SUP] Participants in the conferences and meetings sponsored by TACF have reported healings, incidents of personal transformation and a greater awareness of God's love. It has also been referred to as the Father's blessing, the Anointing, the Awakening, the Renewal, the River and the Fire.

Toldja.

 

[zone]

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Toronto Blessing, a term coined by British newspapers, describes the revival and resulting phenomena that began in January 1994 at the Toronto Airport Vineyard church, now the Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship (TACF), a neocharismatic evangelical Christianchurch located in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.[SUP][1][/SUP] Participants in the conferences and meetings sponsored by TACF have reported healings, incidents of personal transformation and a greater awareness of God's love. It has also been referred to as the Father's blessing, the Anointing, the Awakening, the Renewal, the River and the Fire.

Toldja.

huh?
please....are you able to just communicate what is on your mind?

told me what?

i said i:

a) attended a run-of-the-mill pentecostal church with tongues and words from God and stuff.
b) later...fell into a TO thing

let's try this...

1) do you believe the Toronto Blessing was of God?

2) are you trying to say the TO thing did NOT come out of the Pentecostal movement?
that would be a silly assertion since i can post fifty miles of text that says it is the same thing.

 

[Stephen63]

huh?
please....are you able to just communicate what is on your mind?

told me what?

i said i:

a) attended a run-of-the-mill pentecostal church with tongues and words from God and stuff.
b) later...fell into a TO thing

let's try this...

1) do you believe the Toronto Blessing was of God?

2) are you trying to say the TO thing did NOT come out of the Pentecostal movement?
that would be a silly assertion since i can post fifty miles of text that says it is the same thing.

The Toronto Blessing came from the charismatic movement.

 

[zone]

The Toronto Blessing came from the charismatic movement.

1) do you believe the Toronto Blessing was of God?

 

[coconut]

1) do you believe the Toronto Blessing was of God?

Do you believe that when Paul persecuted Christians and breathed out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord in Acts 9:1, that those things were of God? If not then can you explain what these scriptures mean to the believer and how they are to understand them. Did those things that happened and had fallen upon Job, were they of God or not. I don't think you would have lasted a week in the church of Corinth, but did God raise up that church and redeem those who were part of it?

2 Corinthians 4:15 For all things are for your sakes,that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God.

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

 

[unclefester]

The Toronto Blessing came from the charismatic movement.

Where does the Charismatic movement have it's origins but from the Pentecostal movement ? Essentially one and the same. Pentecostalism and the Charismatic Movement are both identifiable by their belief in the latter-day outpouring of the Holy Spirit, much like the day of Pentecost. If you believe for one second that they are "different", you haven't a clue of those things that you discuss here.

 

[zone]

I don't think you would have lasted a week in the church of Corinth.

um....oh....okay....why is that?

do you....uh.....have any real reason for thinking that?

i mean....not saying....you're wrong....just....wondering

*cough*

since you're involved, please answer question if you are willing and able:

1) do you believe the Toronto Blessing was of God?

sub-questions for precision:

was it all the holy Spirit pouring out actual blessings and anointings and stuff?
was it good gifts and good things from the Holy Spirit?
etc etc etc.

(not asking if it has an ultimate purpose, for it most certainly does)



1 Cor.11:18-19 "For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that divisions (heresies) exist among you; and in part, I believe it. For there must also be heresies among you, in order that those who are approved may have become evident among you." Paul’s writings here and in Galatians 5:20 explains That God’s purpose in these factions makes the proved ones become manifest. "These haireseis are a magnet attracting unsound and unsettled minds." (Findlay)

What is Heresy and what is a heresy hunter? < click

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

on 1 timothy 2:11-14 regarding women refuting false teaching...

i cannot learn...in silence or otherwise...from a false teacher...
i am clearly not teaching when i contend against those who are unteachable...
i am not usurping authority over a man if the man has by teaching falsely forfeited any authority he ever had...
the woman was deceived and so we are being careful not to be deceived again by the evil one who is behind all false teaching...

 

[Professor]

If you're just saying that some people are rude here... well that applies to both genders.

Do you see where I'm going? How many on this thread see where I'm going? You see, you cannot bring people on the carpet by name for everybody to see, because if you do you'll be banned. Perhaps that is justified. However, if you described their characteristics to a T without mentioning who it is, you're actually accusing nobody personally. Note the Scripture:
Deuteronomy 19:15 [SUP]15 [/SUP]"A single witness shall not rise up against a man on account of any iniquity or any sin which he has committed; on the evidence of two or three witnesses a matter shall be confirmed.
Matthew 18:16[SUP]16[/SUP] "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed .
2 Corinthians 13:1[SUP]1[/SUP] This is the third time I am coming to you. Every fact is to be confirmed by the testimony of two or three witnesses.
1 Timothy 5:19[SUP]19[/SUP] Do not receive an accusation against an elder except on the basis of two or three witnesses.

One person's accusation will hold no water. As a matter fact, one lone person making any accusation is often looked upon as a guilty party themselves, as you have said something already similar. There are other witnesses, but trying to get a Christian to speak up for what is right like pulling cow teeth. If the amount of witnesses increase, the chances are better to at least get two or three. So, with the issue out in the open, folks can see for themselves who I am talking about, knowing them by their fruits. It may not get anything accomplished as far as disciplinary action, but the majority will have open eyes to see for themselves. Some think I'm just causing trouble...... others will see that I am simply opening the eyes of the blind. Once they see, they will also see the damage resulting from this. This is what I want. I'm not trying to make an accusation....... I'm simply increasing the number of people who will see the truth, and letting them decide on their own what they think should be done.