Exactly when and what triggered the ceasing of the gifts of the Spirit?

[RickyZ]

that isn't from God.

Ozone, you're in for a rude awakening. Not to be disrespectful but you're serving a powerless and empty god.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/61223-functional-christianity.html

 

[Elizabeth619]

And I am one that does believe the gifts have ceased, but I will agree that God has a purpose for all of us. Not everyone in the first century had supernatural gifts, but were used for the purpose of building the church. The church has now been built, and it is up to all Christians to use their abilities to help others remain faithful and bring more to Christ.

I will share one of the virtues I have that God has blessed me with. It isn't supernatural. It isn't even extravagant. It is simple the ability to help others, and they way I do it. If someone needs help I help them to the best of my ability. I don't have the financial ability to help others out, but other ways I will. When I help them I don't expect anything in return. I do it, and walk away. Most of the time I try to do things without people knowing. I don't have to have recognition. I don't have to have a "thank you". Of course I appreciate them, but I do these things because it's just how I am.
A friend of mine in another state could no afford clothing for her son. Luckily my son had clothes in his size that he could no longer wear. One day the mailman delivered a large package. To this day she has no clue it came from me. Thanks to Facebook I know she received the package, and is still pretty confused who sent it to her, and is very happy she received it. The first one she thanked for being given the clothes was God. I am not saying this to brag, or boast. I am just saying that God can use us to help others in many ways. It was just a simple act of kindness that helped another person in need. This is how God uses me, and I am glad he does.

 

[RickyZ]

Liz, even tho I know you don't believe in them, I also know you are already operating in the gifts of the Spirit (and there are a lot of people in that boat). Imagine what more you could do if you believed?

 

[Elizabeth619]

Liz, even tho I know you don't believe in them, I also know you are already operating in the gifts of the Spirit (and there are a lot of people in that boat). Imagine what more you could do if you believed?

God will use me however he chooses to use me. It isn't up to me, but Him. That's all I can really say.

 

[Elizabeth619]

And I am done "arguing" about the gifts. I don't want to hurt others by how I believe. Even if someone is completely and totally wrong in scripture(whatever the situation) I should use a kinder approach in every situation.

 

[RickyZ]

Ozone, you're in for a rude awakening. Not to be disrespectful but you're serving a powerless and empty god.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/61223-functional-christianity.html

OK, I feel the need to elaborate on this.

Acknowledgment of and functioning in the Spirit are NOT requirements for salvation. I will never doubt anyone's salvation based on this.

BUT

When you say that your god reigns over the here and now

when you say Jehovah God is unable and even barred from exercising His power here and now

when you attribute a world mired in sin and apostasy to the reign of your god

That DOES make me question who your god is.

 

[RickyZ]

God will use me however he chooses to use me. It isn't up to me, but Him. That's all I can really say.

But a person who makes themselves open and available will be used more often and in greater ways

And I am done "arguing" about the gifts. I don't want to hurt others by how I believe. Even if someone is completely and totally wrong in scripture(whatever the situation) I should use a kinder approach in every situation.

These discussions should not be hurtful and I'm sorry if they are. The tone should not be 'you idiot' but 'look at what you're missing out on'. But again, if your interpretation of scripture is that something can't happen, then you look up and see that it is, then you have to question the interpretation you're clinging to.

You know who the most accurate interpreter is? The one who says 'but I could be wrong'

 

[zone]

when it comes to chinking another's faith in Christ .

what faith in Christ?

where did He come into this?

i thought this was about speaking in tongues (burbling unknown noises and calling it the Miracle of Pentecost)?

what does any of that have to do with faith in Christ?

faith in Christ Alone might be a good idea.

 

[zone]

I once received a free booklet from a popular evangelist.
The booklet was designed to teach people to speak in tongues. The booklet taught that one must roll his tongue and say whatever one could, and the Spirit would take over. His entire family and church spoke in tongues. When I watched his program on TV, I felt like it was not the real thing, but just CONDITIONED BEHAVIOR.

Another TV evangelist would tell the congregation (mostly newcomers) to close their eyes and babble whatever they could, and that some would hear the voice of God and be healed, etc. He then would send his volunteers walk up and down the isle, as they "spoke in tongues." Every now and then, the volunteers would go close and speak something into the ears of the people (who had their eyes closed and were working out strange lingo with their tongues).

THESE ARE NOT THE TYPE OF TONGUES THE BIBLE SPEAKS ABOUT, ARE THEY?

of course not.

 

[zone]

You're entitled to your opinion even when you're wrong zone.

I am certainly NOT a cessationist.

Cessationism is the view that the miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit, such as speaking in tongues, prophetic utterances and faith healing, ceased being practiced early in Christian Church history.

I observe and experience the opposite even though you don't believe that I do. Your error.

since the Apostles were also prophets; and since they worked the miracles; and since they received infallible inerrant revelation.....and since you said that office (Apostle) ceased, you're a cessationist.

partial = full.

easy.

 

[zone]

OK, I feel the need to elaborate on this.

Acknowledgment of and functioning in the Spirit are NOT requirements for salvation. I will never doubt anyone's salvation based on this.

you should.
anyone who doesn't acknowledge the Holy Spirit operating in the believer (and the world) should be doubted.

BUT

When you say that your god reigns over the here and now

yours doesn't?
i don't know your god then.

my God reigns.

when you say Jehovah God is unable and even barred from exercising His power here and now

find the post where i said anything like that or retract it please.

when you attribute a world mired in sin and apostasy to the reign of your god

Matthew 13
The Parable of the Weeds
24He put another parable before them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field, 25but while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weedsc among the wheat and went away. 26So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also. 27And the servants of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds?’ 28He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ So the servants said to him, ‘Then do you want us to go and gather them?’ 29But he said, ‘No, lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.’”

who is speaking in the above parable explained?
satan?

That DOES make me question who your god is.

yes i know.

 

[zone]

You know who the most accurate interpreter is? The one who says 'but I could be wrong'

could you be wrong?

 

[GreenNnice]

could you be wrong?

What are you thinking, ohzone, you are wrong, you can't have experienced what someone in tongues experienced, don't worry, one day God may use you in that way, not to further the church ,etc., necessariy, but to lead someone to Christ who otherwise would not be led. God's ways are higher than our ways, don't read minds, just follow His life for you

You should believe in Him, not discount others faith in Christ and how God's increased their faith

 

[zone]

What are you thinking, ohzone, you are wrong, you can't have experienced what someone in tongues experienced, don't worry, one day God may use you in that way, not to further the church ,etc., necessariy, but to lead someone to Christ who otherwise would not be led. God's ways are higher than our ways, don't read minds, just follow His life for you

You should believe in Him, not discount others faith in Christ and how God's increased their faith

how could blabbering in unknown sounds lead anyone to Jesus?
everytime i've seen unbelievers witness that they laugh and dismiss christianity.

do you know what the actual Gospel is green?
that it is the power of God unto salvation?

and i know i've posted this a million times: here it again....is from the Aramiac Bible in Plain English -

2 Timothy 3
(All Scripture is God Breathed)
12But also, all those who choose to live in the worship of God in Yeshua The Messiah are persecuted. 13But evil men and deceivers will add to their evils, as they go astray and deceive. 14But you should abide in those things that you have learned and of which you are assured, for you know from whom you have learned them, 15And because from your childhood you were taught The Holy Scrolls which can make you wise unto the life in the faith of Yeshua The Messiah. 16Every writing which is written by The Spirit is profitable for teaching, for correction, for direction and for a course in righteousness, 17That the man of God will be perfect and perfected for every good work.

does Paul say the Holy Spirit through the Holy Scriptures empowers and equips the man of God unto perfection and perfects him for every (all, none left out, nothing missing, nothing lacking, all) good work?

ya?

 

[GreenNnice]

how could blabbering in unknown sounds lead anyone to Jesus?
everytime i've seen unbelievers witness that they laugh and dismiss christianity.

do you know what the actual Gospel is green?
that it is the power of God unto salvation?

and i know i've posted this a million times: here it again....is from the Aramiac Bible in Plain English -

2 Timothy 3
(All Scripture is God Breathed)
12But also, all those who choose to live in the worship of God in Yeshua The Messiah are persecuted. 13But evil men and deceivers will add to their evils, as they go astray and deceive. 14But you should abide in those things that you have learned and of which you are assured, for you know from whom you have learned them, 15And because from your childhood you were taught The Holy Scrolls which can make you wise unto the life in the faith of Yeshua The Messiah. 16Every writing which is written by The Spirit is profitable for teaching, for correction, for direction and for a course in righteousness, 17That the man of God will be perfect and perfected for every good work.

does Paul say the Holy Spirit through the Holy Scriptures empowers and equips the man of God unto perfection and perfects him for every (all, none left out, nothing missing, nothing lacking, all) good work?

ya?

That's fine, ohzone, the Lord leads, it's just important to realize that those who've tasted the gifts will never go back to what they MIGHT have believed regarding spiritual gifts before. I'm not one of them who's tasted gifts of tongue nor prophecy, nor do I care to unless the Lord leads them into my life. I no doubt believe He can do it, He can do anything, afterall, and, He can do anything He wants at His appointed time, which is not our time most of the time. It's all His time and His timing, it's all His, in other words. After all this been said, milady, I am just saying that trying to change someone to not believe in spiritual gifts when God's used them visibly in their life, like AOKnowledge is telling you just won't work. Won't .

They've seen something that's not even through much faith, except the receiving of the gift which came through faith, why does God shew some that kind of grace , I don't know, but no doubt, He does show some that kind of grace, that kind of mercy, too. Thomas was shown.

 

[RickyZ]

could you be wrong?

Oh absolutely. No one questions their position more than me. I've read your words, re read then read again; I've prayed and meditated and considered that you could be right. On some subjects I hope you are. Have you given mine - or anyone else's - words that same consideration and chance? Doubt it, last time we spoke you were only interested in demolition. You have a spirit of the destroyer.

 

[RickyZ]

There was one other thing I wanted to address, something both Liz and Abiding have said and shown over time. As much as functioning in the gifts is not required for salvation, one can still operate in them even if one doesn't believe in it. As Liz said, if God wants to use you He's going to use you.

Point being, if God can use you even tho you balk, imagine how much He can do with your cooperation.

 

[danschance]

Point being, if God can use you even tho you balk, imagine how much He can do with your cooperation.

Good point.

 

[zone]

That's fine, ohzone, the Lord leads, it's just important to realize that those who've tasted the gifts will never go back to what they MIGHT have believed regarding spiritual gifts before. I'm not one of them who's tasted gifts of tongue nor prophecy, nor do I care to unless the Lord leads them into my life. I no doubt believe He can do it, He can do anything, afterall, and, He can do anything He wants at His appointed time, which is not our time most of the time. It's all His time and His timing, it's all His, in other words. After all this been said, milady, I am just saying that trying to change someone to not believe in spiritual gifts when God's used them visibly in their life, like AOKnowledge is telling you just won't work. Won't .

They've seen something that's not even through much faith, except the receiving of the gift which came through faith, why does God shew some that kind of grace , I don't know, but no doubt, He does show some that kind of grace, that kind of mercy, too. Thomas was shown.

sorry....you're premise is that these things are of God and the believer isn't deceived.
until you actually consider that possibility, and i strongly recommend it....you're never going to understand what the Bible says on the matter. that's clear, since you've been shown untold number of times, and even though you yourself say you haven't been involved in this - you can't see what "tongues" is/was.

so really, since you're not involved, i don't know why you're involved in the discussion. you're arguing for something you yourself haven't experienced, and something you evidently don't understand from the Bible.

why do that? that's what i don't understand.

as for nobody ever being convinced after they've experienced it....why not do a few searches with words like this:

why + i + left + tongues + movement + former + pentecostals

something like that. then you'll see that even your comment that no one ever changes their mind is wrong.
k thx then.

 

[zone]

Oh absolutely. No one questions their position more than me. I've read your words, re read then read again; I've prayed and meditated and considered that you could be right. On some subjects I hope you are. Have you given mine - or anyone else's - words that same consideration and chance? Doubt it, last time we spoke you were only interested in demolition. You have a spirit of the destroyer.

well ricky, i've probably spent more time in prayer; research; investigation and examination of the scriptures and the history of the movement than you have not to mention first-hand experience and in-person observations.

i know i have because you're still claiming those unbiblical activities are biblical.

so i don't know what you want me to say....the conciliatory first part of the statement is dubious based on the end of it.

the idea, for me, is for anybody who is remotely prompted by the Spirit to consider they have been deceived (and deceiving btw), that just hearing it outright is the best way to wake up.

maybe it's uncomfortable.
i'm sure it is...i know it is.

what's that got to do with me?
it's up to each of us to examine ourselves.
if ppl don't want to, they'll ignore what cessationists say - that's usually how it works.
that and come back with the whole "your god is dead" thing.
or you "put god in a box"
etc.

you know.....you've prolly said that kind of thing yourself many times.

k....ttyl