Exactly when and what triggered the ceasing of the gifts of the Spirit?

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RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
So, give your thoughts to Him, and, see what happens to YOU :) And, yes, I am sorry you were, sounds like, anyway, you had been slain in the Spirit and, somehow, the experience became bad for you, think you mentioned 'Kundalinha' spirit came over you or something. I am not sure what was going on in your life at the time a spiritual gift was being administered, or, maybe, for 'slain,' the 'power of God,' works best, and, the seeing of the Holy Spirit, and, a deep inside conviction that Jesus can, indeed, bring power unto my life.

But, to think Satan, or a demon spirit of His is who REALLY came into you is sad, indeed
I missed this 'Kundalinha' thing before, but when I read it here the hair on the back of my neck stood up. If this is true it explains a lot about the dear Zone and confirms a few things I've sensed while in prayer for her. If a spirit named itself for you during a 'penticostal experience' then you were being led astray. While named, the Heavenly host will always proclaim the Name of Jesus, not their own.
 
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BananaPie

Guest
Has anyone considered that “miracle,” in essence, is God’s way of grabbing a person’s attention for the purpose of authenticating that the message is from God?

A miracle “anything” is not really about adding a new epistle to the Holy Bible; it’s neither about “speaking in tongues” nor healing the World from AIDS, which is likely impossible.

A miracle is simply a very unusual, time-relevant message provide by God for a specific purpose, which brings glory to God.

Such miracle message may come by way of being raised from the dead, being completely delivered from an illness, being protected or cautioned of trouble ahead, being delivered from physical blindness or deliverance from spiritual blindness, walking on water, or, in the case of Pentecost, the miracle message of delivering the Gospel in a foreign language by speakers who had not previously learned such foreign language, etc.

Furthermore, has anyone considered that, aside from the causal routine “speaking in tongues” that goes around on a weekly basis in certain circles, that God at times DOES authenticates messages to His people by those whom He chooses as messengers?

Yes, Paul did say that tongues would cease (1 Corinthians 13:8), but the same verse states that knowledge would also cease… …and so far, knowledge has been exponentially increasing according to Apple, of course. LOL.

Okay, seriously. Who are we to decide for God that the Holy Spirit of God no longer communicates with believers because Pentecost already happened and Patmos was closed longer than Alcatraz did? We are not orphans, dear ones. We now have access to the mind of Jesus Christ. …just sayin’ :D

 
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GreenNnice

Guest
I missed this 'Kundalinha' thing before, but when I read it here the hair on the back of my neck stood up. If this is true it explains a lot about the dear Zone and confirms a few things I've sensed while in prayer for her. If a spirit named itself for you during a 'penticostal experience' then you were being led astray. While named, the Heavenly host will always proclaim the Name of Jesus, not their own.
Yes, but, too, rickzee, it's important of these matters we speak bodily of Christ in us and not haughtily of the spiritual gifts being so important that you need them or you will one day be in a situation where if you don't have them you will die because of your lack of belief in the power of God. This may well be true, and, perhaps, the Lord leads you to say this kind of 'extreme' viewpoint. It's not bad either, it's good to challenge others to an understanding of the power of God unto salvation, I would just be careful not to judge them to hell because they don't believe in spirtual gifts. God is clear that believing in Him and His dying on cross and rising again is THE power of the gospel we are to preach: preach Christ and Christ crucified. That's what Paul did, we are to do, too. :)

______________

To banana-ana-ana, yes, the power of God is great. We need to see God's hand in common situations as miracles, or, situations that just seemed like, oh, that wasn't that big of a deal when it really could have been. Let me explain:

One time I was with my sister , and her 4 little kids, age 3 , 5 , 7, 9. We went to the park for a picnic. After leaving and getting to my sister's house about 10 minutes away, we got a call from the park attendant. "Hey, someone found your drivers licence on the grass at the park and gave us this number to give you so you can call them and go get it."

So, we called the people, they gave us their address. We went out there and the road to their place was a narrow one-way dirt road, very thickly wooded and a long private dirt road. We were driving for about 5 minutes on this long dirt road when my sister noticed a police car was behind us.

We stopped and the policeman told us that the park attendant thought the person who called with the drivers license had a fishy story so they called the police. Turned out, we were probably going to be robbed when we finally got to the house to retrieve my sister's drivers license, at least, that is what the policeman said happened a lot of times in situations like this.

Now, one can choose to twist and turn that story however you want, but, to me, all things considered--driving on a small dirt road for 5 minutes, the policeman's thoughts--we were going to be robbed when we got to the house, or, worse.

To me, I just let the Lord be the Lord in people's lives, and, if a doctor says a malignant cancer was in someone from a test screening done and then the person goes and prays about it, maybe, there church prays for them, too, and, then a week later when the person goes back the cancer is GONE, I just don't know what else to think, but, 'That is a miracle, Lord,' when all things are considered. Now, was it the Holy Spirit just taking the cancer out, why certainly, but, why did it happen? What does Scripture say when the man asks Jesus to heal his sick daughter when he has unbelief? "Your FAITH has made your daughter well."

And, this man was disbelieving in trying to believe, remember, too, what man said before Jesus healed his daugher: "Lord, I believe, help my disbelief. "

Just believe, people, you don't even have to truly know you are believing, but HAVE faith to believe, that God can work through your UNBELIEF even !! BEcause He can :)
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
I understand that my presentation is extreme, that's because of the extreme experience and education in the subject God has given me. And because I've paid a high price for that experience and education. That's why I've been mostly venting in my own threads, rather than hijacking others like this one. If you read one of mine you'd read of an experience that was NOT of God, and how ignoring it cost me. And these kind of things will escalate until such time that they do threaten to cost our salvation a la Matt. 24:10. Sure, right now is not that time, but the time to prepare for anything is before you need it.

I know I push the envelope. Thank you all for being the barometer that keeps me from crossing the line, or pulls me back when I do.
 
J

jkalyna

Guest
Has anyone considered that “miracle,” in essence, is God’s way of grabbing a person’s attention for the purpose of authenticating that the message is from God? A miracle “anything” is not really about adding a new epistle to the Holy Bible; it’s neither about “speaking in tongues” nor healing the World from AIDS, which is likely impossible. A miracle is simply a very unusual, time-relevant message provide by God for a specific purpose, which brings glory to God. Such miracle message may come by way of being raised from the dead, being completely delivered from an illness, being protected or cautioned of trouble ahead, being delivered from physical blindness or deliverance from spiritual blindness, walking on water, or, in the case of Pentecost, the miracle message of delivering the Gospel in a foreign language by speakers who had not previously learned such foreign language, etc. Furthermore, has anyone considered that, aside from the causal routine “speaking in tongues” that goes around on a weekly basis in certain circles, that God at times DOES authenticates messages to His people by those whom He chooses as messengers? Yes, Paul did say that tongues would cease (1 Corinthians 13:8), but the same verse states that knowledge would also cease… …and so far, knowledge has been exponentially increasing according to Apple, of course. LOL. Okay, seriously. Who are we to decide for God that the Holy Spirit of God no longer communicates with believers because Pentecost already happened and Patmos was closed longer than Alcatraz did? We are not orphans, dear ones. We now have access to the mind of Jesus Christ. …just sayin’ :D
ALL I KNOW IS JESUS IS LORD, DON'T KNOW TO MUCH .LOL
 

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peterT

Guest
Now this is one of the best threads I have seen in a long time.

Words of faith from Christians that believe, these are the Christians that I would like to hang about with when the great tribulation starts.:)

It is true that the gifts have been abused in mort churches today and what we see on TV; they seem to go through the motions copying what the disciples did, doing it in the flesh in the strength of their own hand.

No wonder some Christians say the gifts have stopped.

But these are the signs that follow them that believe.

We may never see in are lifetime the true spirit of these gifts working, but it doesn’t mean they have stopped, as Gods spirit doesn’t always strive with men.

And to be ashamed of his word in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his Father's glory.

God rises up the stranded and When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him Isaiah 59:19.

This is what we can expect. And if God is going to do miracles then the miracles are going to come through the Christians that believe and have faith in the gifts and his word.

Blessed are the Christians and praise be to our God, for them with faith in his word.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,077
170
63
God rises up the stranded and When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him Isaiah 59:19.

I don't mean to split hairs friend, but the above verse would be a more accurate translation if you put a comma between the words 'in' and 'like'. Now read the same verse below with the comma moved and tell me if that sounds/looks better.
Isaiah 59:19, When the enemy shall come in, like a flood the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.
Written the other way like in the KJB, the devil is exalted and appears mighter than God. Written this was, God is bigger and exalted about the devil, which is the truth.
Sorry, but I have a pet peave with anything or any one (not talking about you) that lifts up the devil above God and His children.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,782
2,952
113
I do not believe all the gifts have ceased. Things like serving, teaching, encouraging, giving leadership, mercy, faith and helps certainly exist.

So why are we not discussing these gifts. Why does everyone always focus on tongues?

I think that tongues were a witness to the unsaved in the New Testament, and now from what Rachel has posted, maybe into the next centuries.

I went to charismatic/pentecostal churches the first 15 years of my life. All I heard about was miracles and tongues. I never learned about serving, and helping and that Jesus expects us to serve "the least of these." I was never taught about growing in Christian maturity or justification, sanctification and glorification. I was taught bad eschatology, which I could never believe, even though it made me a heretic in the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada.

And I strongly suspected that tongues were just made up for the people I encountered in many churches in different towns (we got transferred a lot in those days). I was tired of a good worship service being "loud with lots of prophecies" instead of God being the center of the service, and his name being glorified, not the gifts.

God showed me I was not being fed and I was being conned.

I will not say God does not perform miracles. God is in control, not me. I have just never seen a truly verified one, and placebo effect is too big a factor to discount.

But I will say I am glad God moved me out of the charismatic movement and that he has opened up the whole message of the Bible for me. That message is serving Jesus, because that who the Bible is about. It is not about us and our gifts, but rather what we do to follow Christ.

The Holy Spirit is alive and well in my heart and life. But He speaks to me through the Bible. There is nothing anyone can say that will add to that. That is why we do not need tongues or prophecy today, because we have the greatest gift of all in the Bible. The early church did not have the Bible or the New Testament.

As someone noted earlier, the gifts of prophecy and miracles seem to have died out when the Bible was compiled. That historical evidence, along with my own experience confirms that we need to start focusing on the real gifts that edify and that are the mission of the church.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,289
6,575
113
God rises up the stranded and When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him Isaiah 59:19.

I don't mean to split hairs friend, but the above verse would be a more accurate translation if you put a comma between the words 'in' and 'like'. Now read the same verse below with the comma moved and tell me if that sounds/looks better.
Isaiah 59:19, When the enemy shall come in, like a flood the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.
Written the other way like in the KJB, the devil is exalted and appears mighter than God. Written this was, God is bigger and exalted about the devil, which is the truth.
Sorry, but I have a pet peave with anything or any one (not talking about you) that lifts up the devil above God and His children.
The verb acted upon is come (in) the following, like a flood, is adverbial and modifies the verb. It does not require being set in comas by virtue of its part of speech. The punctuation stands correct as printed, and it is grammatically correct.
 
J

jusasheep

Guest
Yeshua says we must be born again-this means being filled with his spirit. If we have not the spirit-we are none of his. The spirit is a real presence inside of you-you know when your baptized with him.
 
Feb 17, 2013
1,034
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Has anyone considered that “miracle,” in essence, is God’s way of grabbing a person’s attention for the purpose of authenticating that the message is from God?

A miracle “anything” is not really about adding a new epistle to the Holy Bible; it’s neither about “speaking in tongues” nor healing the World from AIDS, which is likely impossible.

A miracle is simply a very unusual, time-relevant message provide by God for a specific purpose, which brings glory to God.

Such miracle message may come by way of being raised from the dead, being completely delivered from an illness, being protected or cautioned of trouble ahead, being delivered from physical blindness or deliverance from spiritual blindness, walking on water, or, in the case of Pentecost, the miracle message of delivering the Gospel in a foreign language by speakers who had not previously learned such foreign language, etc.

Furthermore, has anyone considered that, aside from the causal routine “speaking in tongues” that goes around on a weekly basis in certain circles, that God at times DOES authenticates messages to His people by those whom He chooses as messengers?

Yes, Paul did say that tongues would cease (1 Corinthians 13:8), but the same verse states that knowledge would also cease… …and so far, knowledge has been exponentially increasing according to Apple, of course. LOL.

Okay, seriously. Who are we to decide for God that the Holy Spirit of God no longer communicates with believers because Pentecost already happened and Patmos was closed longer than Alcatraz did? We are not orphans, dear ones. We now have access to the mind of Jesus Christ. …just sayin’ :D

and the greatest miracle is how a drunk or drug addict can get saved. Salvations is the greatest miracle of all.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
A drug addict coming to Christ is not a "miracle". A miracle is something that happens supernaturally, and goes against nature. An individual choosing to life a Christ filled life is not defined as a miracle. As a matter of fact, it is downgrading what miracles really are, and makes them sound less significant and powerful.
 
Feb 17, 2013
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Elizabeth,Elizabeth, Elizabeth how can you say that someone getting saved is not a miracle. Mothers, Fathers, Uncles and Grandpa's have prayed and prayed for that one to get saved for years and years. That is a miracle. LOL don't forget the donkey. Luv ya
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
Elizabeth,Elizabeth, Elizabeth how can you say that someone getting saved is not a miracle. Mothers, Fathers, Uncles and Grandpa's have prayed and prayed for that one to get saved for years and years. That is a miracle. LOL don't forget the donkey. Luv ya
A miracle is an act of God. God will not force anyone to come to Him. It is a choice we make. He will influence us and help us, but someone getting saved is not a miracle. You can call is a blessing, but not a miracle. Miracles supercede natural law
 
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tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
4,621
281
83
A miracle is an act of God. God will not force anyone to come to Him. It is a choice we make. He will influence us and help us, but someone getting saved is not a miracle. You can call is a blessing, but not a miracle. Miracles supercede natural law
Dead men can't be choosers.

Eph.2

[1] And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
[2] Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
[3] Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
[4] But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
[5] Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, ( by grace ye are saved; )
[6] And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
[7] That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.
[10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
A miracle is an act of God. God will not force anyone to come to Him. It is a choice we make. He will influence us and help us, but someone getting saved is not a miracle. You can call is a blessing, but not a miracle. Miracles supercede natural law
Credit yourself with salvation all you like, but you will receive the rewards due such a claim.

Salvation is a miracle, one which requires more power than Genesis 1. There is no such thing as natural law.
 
Feb 17, 2013
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​Elizabeth, you would not consider a muslim that has been taught islam all his life and then get saved not a miracle. Please
 
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GreenNnice

Guest
Elizabeth:
A miracle is an act of God. God will not force anyone to come to Him. It is a choice we make. He will influence us and help us, but someone getting saved is not a miracle. You can call is a blessing, but not a miracle. Miracles supercede natural law
tribesman: Dead men can't be choosers.
His power unto our salvation only reaches so far, we must make a choice , we must believe in the salvation God chooses to give us for our soul.
 
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