ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS... I THINK NOT!

[ANIOHEVTORAH]

True scripture does not call us christians, messianic or any of these. These are man made titles as the couple verses clearly show. Scripture by YAH calls us, children of YAH, followers of the Way, and bondservants of Messiah. I do not say that being called christian or messianic is wrong. But the broad spectrum today of what falls under the title of christianity is not what it may have originally intended to be.

In the Greek Septuagint, christos was used to translate the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Mašíaḥ, messiah), meaning "[one who is] anointed."[SUP][[/SUP]

 

[zone]

True scripture does not call us christians

Acts 11:25-26
And he (Barnabas) left for Tarsus to look for Saul;
and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. And for an entire year they met with the church and taught considerable numbers; and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.(NASB)

And Barnabas went forth to Tarsus, to seek for Saul,
and having found him, he brought him to Antioch, and it came to pass that they a whole year did assemble together in the assembly, and taught a great multitude, the disciples also were divinely called first in Antioch Christians. (YLT)

1 Peter 4:6
but if anyone suffers as a Christian, he is not to be ashamed, but is to glorify God in this name. (NASB)

and if as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; and let him glorify God in this respect; (YLT)

Gal. 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. (NASB)

Col. 3:10-11
and have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him
—a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all. (NASB)

hi ellie

 

[JaumeJ]

It is true, after the Messiah came to save us, and after the Twelve went out to spread the Gospel of the Kingdom in a city in part of the entire civilization of the time, some people began to call the followers of Jesus, Christians. It is actually more likely, since much of the teaching was in synagogues they were actually called Messianics, but who will ever know for certain? Reason will explain much more than all the theological thinking since Messiah.

Yeshua is King of the Jews. He is the King of the Kingdom I aspire to dwell in, so what would that make me? I love the King, and He is my Savior, as I believe He is for everyone who calls on His name in Spirit and truth. Blessed be the Only Begotten Son of Yahweh, God, and blessed be all who are genuinely in Him, learning from Him, amen.

 

[TheAristocat]

It is true, after the Messiah came to save us, and after the Twelve went out to spread the Gospel of the Kingdom in a city in part of the entire civilization of the time, some people began to call the followers of Jesus, Christians. It is actually more likely, since much of the teaching was in synagogues they were actually called Messianics, but who will ever know for certain? Reason will explain much more than all the theological thinking since Messiah.

Yeshua is King of the Jews. He is the King of the Kingdom I aspire to dwell in, so what would that make me? I love the King, and He is my Savior, as I believe He is for everyone who calls on His name in Spirit and truth. Blessed be the Only Begotten Son of Yahweh, God, and blessed be all who are genuinely in Him, learning from Him, amen.

Interesting point. I guess "Christian" (i.e. Messiah-an) was just another way of saying "Messianic." Although it also applied to Gentile believers.

 

[PS]

It began as a nickname

Names and titles of Jesus.pdf -- 214k

 

[hopesprings]

John 10:27 "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow Me." Love that verse...

 

[kardiaoangelous]

I don't understand how they could fall away. To whom else will they go???

Must be why that big IF is in there...

I am glad you don't understand that. Such is innocence of the spirit. When Peter exclaimed, "Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life", Peter really believed that in his heart. (John 6:68)

That is of course why John said, 1 John 2:19 "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

But until we are fully matured in Christ and complete in his image, does the mere fact that we are in Christ and growing really guarantee us that we cannot be deceived by what we hear from Satan's soldiers and thus change our mind?

If being in Christ does mean that, then what was the need for John to warn them and us?

 

[maxwel]

I once heard a pastor ask a very good question.

He said, "Once you're 'born again' into God's family, how you do get 'unborn' out of his family?"

I think that's a very good question.

 

[PS]

I once heard a pastor ask a very good question.

He said, "Once you're 'born again' into God's family, how you do get 'unborn' out of his family?"

I think that's a very good question.

By killing that precious baby with the milk of error.

Luther held that even if one has experienced the justifying grace of God through faith in Christ, they still "can lose that justification through unbelief or false confidence in works." In his comments on Galatians 5:4, "Ye are fallen from grace," Luther writes, "To fall from grace means to lose the atonement, the forgiveness of sins, the righteousness, liberty, and life which Jesus has merited for us by His death and resurrection. To lose the grace of God means to gain the wrath and judgment of God, death, the bondage of the devil, and everlasting condemnation."

 

[Cobus]

I am glad you don't understand that. Such is innocence of the spirit. When Peter exclaimed, "Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life", Peter really believed that in his heart. (John 6:68)

That is of course why John said, 1 John 2:19 "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

But until we are fully matured in Christ and complete in his image, does the mere fact that we are in Christ and growing really guarantee us that we cannot be deceived by what we hear from Satan's soldiers and thus change our mind?

If being in Christ does mean that, then what was the need for John to warn them and us?

Kardi, I told you we agree on much, another Scripture comes to mind.... AND THEY SHALL DECIEVE MANY,,,, EVEN IF IT WERE POSSIBLE TO DECIEVE THE ELECT...
It is Impossible to decieve the ELECT, for they KNOW THE TRUTH, and they are mede free from DOUBT and WAVERING FAITH.... It makes it a BIG IF to be FALLING... Especially when God is the One that KEEPS YOU FROM FALLING..

 

[justamazed]

HEBREWS 6:4-6
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [SUP]6 [/SUP]if they fall away,[SUP][a][/SUP] to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

There have been so many debates in the church as to whether we are "Once saved always saved" or if once we have asked Yeshua into our hearts, can we lose our salvation.

These verses here give a strong proof that we can lose it. But it's more detailed. It says those who are enlightened, have tasted the heavenly gift, partakers of the Ruach Hakodesh(Holy Spirit) and tasted the good word of YAH and the powers of the age to come.

So the big question is, how many who claim to be believers(self included) has truly had or received all these things?

Any thoughts on this?

Hebrews 6:4-6

4*For it is IMPOSSIBLE for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift (of the salvation of ALL MEN), and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5*And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6*If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


How can I fall away after seeing the world to come by faith?

 

[PS]

Hebrews 6:4-6

4*For it is IMPOSSIBLE for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift (of the salvation of ALL MEN), and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5*And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6*If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


How can I fall away after seeing the world to come by faith?

Carry on reading:-

It is IMPOSSIBLE.... If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

The passage even makes clear that once they were true believers who had tasted the good Word of God and repented of their sins.

 

[PS]

Kardi, I told you we agree on much, another Scripture comes to mind.... AND THEY SHALL DECIEVE MANY,,,, EVEN IF IT WERE POSSIBLE TO DECIEVE THE ELECT...
It is Impossible to decieve the ELECT, for they KNOW THE TRUTH, and they are mede free from DOUBT and WAVERING FAITH.... It makes it a BIG IF to be FALLING... Especially when God is the One that KEEPS YOU FROM FALLING..

John McCain and Obama were both presidents elect, but only Obama got into the White House.

 

[justamazed]

Carry on reading:-

It is IMPOSSIBLE.... If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

And the passage even makes clear that once they were true believers who had tasted the good Word of God and repented of their sins.

Again it is IMPOSSIBLE for me having tasted of the free gift of eternal life and salvation for all, to fall away. That's because a man can only die once. Having died once, it is not I who lives but Christ who lives in me. IF their was such a thing as me doubting this SURE promise in Christ after receiving it with open arms, then I deserve to burn!


But if an "IF" was a fifth, we'd all be drunk.

 

[PS]

Again it is IMPOSSIBLE for me having tasted of the free gift of eternal life and salvation for all, to fall away. That's because a man can only die once. Having died once, it is not I who lives but Christ who lives in me. IF their was such a thing as me doubting this SURE promise in Christ after receiving it with open arms, then I deserve to burn!


But if an "IF" was a fifth, we'd all be drunk.

Luk 14:18 But they all alike began to make excuses. The first said to him, 'I have bought a field, and I must go out and see it.

 

[justamazed]

Luk 14:18 But they all alike began to make excuses. The first said to him, 'I have bought a field, and I must go out and see it.

This is true... The ONLY THING separating mankind from the kingdom we seek is ourselves!

18 million homes empty. 3 million homeless. And only the rule of our own imaginations between the two.

 

[Grandpa]

I am glad you don't understand that. Such is innocence of the spirit. When Peter exclaimed, "Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life", Peter really believed that in his heart. (John 6:68)

That is of course why John said, 1 John 2:19 "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

But until we are fully matured in Christ and complete in his image, does the mere fact that we are in Christ and growing really guarantee us that we cannot be deceived by what we hear from Satan's soldiers and thus change our mind?

If being in Christ does mean that, then what was the need for John to warn them and us?

My sheep hear my voice and another they will not follow.

I believe that and what Peter believed in his heart.

 

[crossnote]

By killing that precious baby with the milk of error.

Luther held that even if one has experienced the justifying grace of God through faith in Christ, they still "can lose that justification through unbelief or false confidence in works." In his comments on Galatians 5:4, "Ye are fallen from grace," Luther writes, "To fall from grace means to lose the atonement, the forgiveness of sins, the righteousness, liberty, and life which Jesus has merited for us by His death and resurrection. To lose the grace of God means to gain the wrath and judgment of God, death, the bondage of the devil, and everlasting condemnation."

But even Luther said that in matters dealing with church and salvation we need to look to Scripture as the final arbiter, so in the case above I'll go with Scripture over Luther. There is no indication in scripture that one can be repeatedly reborn..or at least I must have missed it somewhere.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am glad you don't understand that. Such is innocence of the spirit. When Peter exclaimed, "Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life", Peter really believed that in his heart. (John 6:68)

That is of course why John said, 1 John 2:19 "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

But until we are fully matured in Christ and complete in his image, does the mere fact that we are in Christ and growing really guarantee us that we cannot be deceived by what we hear from Satan's soldiers and thus change our mind?

If being in Christ does mean that, then what was the need for John to warn them and us?

1. John was not warning us. He was giving us hope. Have you ever lost someone you were discipling, or trying to help mature in Christ, and they left and went back into the world? I see this, and the people who were trying to help them are depressed, they blame themselves. They are disturbed. they start questioning. John encourages by saying there is nothing we could have done anyway, They never were saved (they did not lose salvation, they never had it)

2. Read further.. If there is a warning it is this.

[SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.

If what you heard abides. Did it really become real? did it really have the power to save you? or are you still just playing a game and it is not real. why? If it was real. we should not worry. why?

[SUP]25 [/SUP]And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life.

[SUP]26 [/SUP]These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you.

Eternal life is eternal. If God did not want us to think this life he gave us was eternal, forever, he would not have called it eternal life. he would have called it conditional life.

 

[PS]

But even Luther said that in matters dealing with church and salvation we need to look to Scripture as the final arbiter, so in the case above I'll go with Scripture over Luther. There is no indication in scripture that one can be repeatedly reborn..or at least I must have missed it somewhere.

Reborn repeatedly!!!

Your comment about Luther is noted. How about including Calvin?

If you want scripture and I can give you lots here is some more:-

"Thomas Helwys was one of the joint founders of the Baptist denomination along with John Smyth. After breaking with Smyth in 1610, Helwys wrote "A Declaration of Faith of English People Remaining at Amsterdam in Holland in 1611." Helwys clearly communicates his stance regarding apostasy in point seven of the Declaration:

Men may fall away from the grace of GOD (Hebrews 12:15) and from the truth, which they have received and acknowledged (Hebrews 10:26) after they have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the HOLY SPIRIT, and have tasted of the good word of GOD, and of the powers of the world to come (Hebrews 6:4, 5). And after they have escaped from the filthiness of the World, may be tangled again therein and overcome (2 Peter 2:20). A righteous man may forsake his righteousness and perish (Ezekiel 18:24, 26). Therefore let no man presume to think that because he has, or once had grace, therefore he shall always have grace. But let all men have assurance, that if they continue to the end, they will be saved. Let no man then presume; but let all work out their salvation with fear and trembling."