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Again we see these traits in Jesus and Paul..but we also see Jesus use a whip on people and rebuke folks...as did Paul..even blinding one man and giving very harsh warnings to people who did not keep the holiness God demanded ...which is the very issue of this thread ...you cant just see the parts of scripture you want to see ...you can just claim mercy and forget judgment and godliness.

What did you read? read it again because you clearly missed what Paul did and why he did it...

That would be a sight to behold wouldn't it? Maybe you should try it. Go find someone in church who is in open rebellion against God, tie em up and rebuke em, crack a whip on em a few times and see how many years in prison it'll get you. Lol

I guess your issue is with Jesus and Paul? Because that's the scriptures and that's what they did...you don't like it? What can I do? But thats the real Jesus and the real Paul. And be sure that what they did even when angry ..they did in love


sorry to have to tell you folks things that don't tickle your ears

The whip was for not praying for all people.

And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.

You refer to Acts 13, correct? Where the proconsul, Sergius Paulus sent for Paul & Barnabas to tell him about Christ Jesus.

You have to remember, Jesus did not do anything without the Father's directive. Neither did Paul. It said the Holy Spirit showed Paul that Elymas the Jewish sorcerer & false prophet was filled with the devil, and that he was purposely trying to thwart the Word of God being told to the proconsul.

Paul did not strike the sorcerer blind. It plainly reads that Paul proclaimed to Elymas, "Now the hand of the Lord is against you. You are going to be blind for a time, not even able to see the light of the sun.” Paul basically prophesied what God was going to do.

Paul knew from experience you don't "kick against the pricks" with God. You don't proclaim your own will and call it God's working. Paul did that once. He dragged people to their death believing he was doing God a favor. And Paul was struck blind for a time and was humbled by the Lord.

Now Elymas was attempting the same stunt. But Paul spoke by the anointing of the Holy Spirit, "You are a child of the devil and an enemy of everything that is right! You are full of all kinds of deceit and trickery. Will you never stop perverting the right ways of the Lord?" The sorcerer needed to have an end to his shenanigans because he was interfering in someone's salvation (the proconsul).

When the Lord made a example of the sorcerer, the proconsul was amazed and believe Jesus Christ.

So we have these 2 facts:

1. Paul would not dare to do something of his own accord, he did what the Holy Spirit directed him to do. He learned his lesson on the road to Damascus.

2. Elymas was doing exactly what Paul did as Saul, interfering with God's work in bringing people to salvation thru Christ. Elymas got stopped exactly how Paul got stopped: BY GOD'S HAND.

There is no way Paul went around ranting and raving about particular sinners. Paul knew better than to cowboy the gospel. Paul was a humble man, a fatherly man, and he would deny any testimony that gave him credit for anything he did in Christ.

Galatians 6:14
But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

I Corinthians 2:2
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ…

i never said I didn't like it. I was more curious if you were thinking you had that same authority. So I guess I'm not sure of the point you are trying to make. The bible is also part history. And it was written at a time when society and culture was different. I don't think whipping someone and tying them up would be looked on very favorably in today's world. Back then.....ya they put people on crosses and stuff....boiled them in hot oil and even ripped them limb from limb from time to time. So I guess I'm not clear on how far all this goes with you.

What Jesus and Paul did was humble themselves to the Father and did nothing of themselves.

Jesus did not whip people, he used the lash to drive the animals out of the temple. He overturned tables but he never hit anyone. It says it plainly in the Word.

"So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables."

And Paul, as I said, did not blind Elymas. The hand of God did, and that too is in the Word plainly.

Careful--he already told me that the NIV (the version I grew up learning) is crap.

Hey Brotherjustine, I like the verse you have at the bottom of your quotes

Hmm... I wonder why he was 'ganged up on'....

Ah ha!

Guess who can read his OP? ... Anyone in the entire world who has access to the internet.

This ain't some small group or social club -- it's a public international forum!

Tact.

The word gay isn't biblical ...

Sure lets be friends ...

Your humility astounds me ;-)

So now you are being made out to bethe guy who would whip people? You wouldnt do that would you? I certainly woudnt! lol
This thread has gone from bad to worse. Next you will be murdering a sinner. Maybe you will be stringing them up in a tree? Makes for nice fiction but not discussion. You may want to ask the mods to close this thread . It seems that many are at risk for off the charts blood pressures

How about we wait until the day when you are ganged up on. Only then will we see how you respond. At this juncture, you are only jumping on the gang wagon. How brave!

Tinman, why must you continue to provoke ugliness and debate by prodding Mitspa about people ganging up on him. Mitspa is my dear friend and brother. He made a thread and we're discussing the subject. Why don't you take a breather and ask God for wisdom in adding something beneficial to this thread rather than try to clique with Mitspa by goading him. Mitspa is an intelligent man and doesn't need you to hold his hand. He's been here for quite some time and just because there's disagreement, it doesn't take away the fact he's my dear brother and friend in Christ.