Does it Bother Anyone that Christians and Muslims Fight for the Same God?

didymos · Dec 17, 2013

Fluttershy said:

Jesus wasn't a prophet, nor did He ever speak of 'Allah,' just check your Bible.

TaylorTG · Dec 17, 2013

didymos said:

Fluttershy actually said that Jesus was just a prophet?

Nay..

didymos · Dec 17, 2013

TaylorTG said:

And that relates to my post how?
Jesus wasn't a prophet, or 'JUST a prophet,' He's the Son of GOD.

TaylorTG · Dec 17, 2013

didymos said:

And that is obvious...

tripsin · Dec 17, 2013

TaylorTG said:

That is because you have not researched. There have been many good posts here. Have you read any of them? Are you curious about them? Read some books. Allah IS NOT the same god as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Don't be so 16. Find out what you are talking about. Selah.

Anonimous · Dec 17, 2013

Fluttershy said:

They can choose not to believe that Jesus is who he claims to be. Not only is Jesus the Son of God...He is also God. Do I understand this? Can anyone? If anyone says they completely understand this then they are wrong. We were never told we have to understand God or everything that the Bible says. But, we must believe. Jesus said that anyone who does not receive the Son (Jesus) receives not God who sent Him. So, if anyone...anyone...rejects Jesus they are in effect rejecting God Himself.

jimmydiggs · Dec 17, 2013

Fluttershy said:

Cheese and crackers I did not expect this thread to explode like it did overnight. Alright, after reading/skimming through some of the responses, here are add-ins to the topic.

Check the Shahadah. He has a proper name.

2. The Qur'an parallels Biblical events and characters. In the second Sura (chapter) "The Cow", it describes how Allah saved the people of Israel from Pharoah's enslavement (2:49), led by Moses (2:51) who stayed on a mount with Allah for forty days and forty nights to receive "the Book and the Discrimination" (2:53), how Allah created Adam and the animals and how Adam knew the names of all the animals (2:30-39) and ordered the angels to bow down in respect and worship of Adam except one of the angels (named Iblis) did not and how Adam and his wife were deceived by the Deceiver and ate from the Forbidden Tree and were cast out (2:36) *this is just the second chapter (not even 1/4th of the way through it)*, the Qur'an is filled with tales of Noah, Jonah, Solomon, David, etc.
3. Even Jesus! "O People of the Book, exceed not the limits in your religion nor speak anything about Allah, but the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, is only a messenger of Allah and His word which He communicated to Mary and a mercy from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you. Allah is only one God. Far be it from His glory to have a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth. And sufficient is Allah as having charge of affairs." (4:171)
4. The above states that, according to Islam, Jesus was not a son of God but only a messenger. And is this ludicrous to believe? Did it not go from Judaism (Jesus is not the son of God) to Christianity (Jesus is the Son of God) to Islam (Jesus is not the Son of God)? Did not Christianity break away from Judaism, borrow its text for its own texts (as some of you are discussing), and say things contrary to the predecessor Abrahamic religion just as Islam did the same with Christianity?

Sources -
1. The Qu'ran "Maulana Muhammid Ali translation" (commonly found in Barnes & Noble - green with gold pages, $20)
2. I am memorizing the Qur'an.
3. I used to visit a mosque, listen to the Imam, pray with the congregation, and discussed Islam with the Imam there (nice guy)

Similiarties =/= identical

Not the same God.

RedTent · Dec 17, 2013

They are lying about the true God, saying we have multiple Gods. That God is one is basic to knowing God. We talk of the three ways of God, but it is one God.

No wonder you like this stuff you hear! They say you are capable of being so powerful you can get God to redeem you, you can be so perfect God will accept you without what Christ did on the cross. Besides, the guy who constructed the entire thing wasn't even born until 600 years after Christ, and 4,600 years after God changed our earth into one for humans and created us.

So a made up God, constructed of parts of Christian scripture and Moon God idolatry, one that has no power to give a part of himself to help you and puts the responsibility of redemption completely on you for that God has never been resurrected.

You have been sold a bill of goods!

Fluttershy · Dec 17, 2013

No, the answer does not concern about Jesus, that is for another question, it only concerns on the original Abrahamic God.
1. Both religions believe in the same god: Christianity - God/Yahweh, Islam - Allah <-- Same gods from what is said in the Bible and the Qur'an
2. Both religions include Jesus
3. Christianity gives divine status to Jesus, Islam does not give divine status to Jesus.
* In the end, arguments 2 and 3 do not concern the question.

breno785au · Dec 17, 2013

Fluttershy said:

No, the answer does not concern about Jesus, that is for another question, it only concerns on the original Abrahamic God.
1. Both religions believe in the same god: Christianity - God/Yahweh, Islam - Allah <-- Same gods from what is said in the Bible and the Qur'an
2. Both religions include Jesus
3. Christianity gives divine status to Jesus, Islam does not give divine status to Jesus.
* In the end, arguments 2 and 3 do not concern the question.

God never does and never will contradict Himself.

doseofreality · Dec 17, 2013

Fluttershy said:

I see what you are saying but the Divinity of Jesus actually changes "God's" characteristics thus contrasting the two definitions of God used by Muslims and Christians.
So God of Abraham either came to earth as Jesus or did not.
Maybe they both claim to worship same God but only one has it right.

Now my argument that neither are right,
Imposing definitions and characteristics onto a divine supernatural being is widespread and varies depending on the source (Torah, Quran, Bible, Book of Mormon)
No matter if you argue that they all point to same God, each claims different qualities for that God. These claims can be exclusive so only one group can be right.
How do you know who is right? In my opinion any argument used to discount an oppositions claim can just as well be turned around and used against their own claim.
If then many claims abound concerning a Deity and none can be substantiated any more than any other it should be concluded that none of the claims are true until further evidence is provided.

This dilemma is like two villages that are told about a great and mighty King in a far off land. They are told many stories about the King, one village believes the King to possess great strength and that his favorite color is red. If the people will prepare many great garments of red to present to the King then they will be blessed. The other village believes the King to have great wisdom and his favorite color is green, so they make many green garments to present to the King so they may be blessed. The two villages fight over who is right about the color that will please the King, both thinking they will be blessed and the other cursed. The day to meet the King arrives and both villages assemble to meet the King, however, to their dismay they find that the King is a band of raiders who steal all their garments and ride off never to be seen again. It seems the raiders started many rumors to entice the villages to believe in the made up King and make garments for him. Because the people were so blinded by their desire to be blessed and for their neighbors to be cursed, they convinced themselves that the King must be real and He wanted a specific color garment that only they could provide.

doseofreality · Dec 18, 2013

breno785au said:

13 “Thou shalt not kill."
Exodus 20:13 KJV
...

16 “And he that stealeth a man and selleth him, or if he shall be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death."
17 “And he that curseth his father or his mother shall surely be put to death."
Exodus 21:16-17 KJV

18 “Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
19 “Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.
20 “He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

Exodus 22:18-20 KJV

Praus · Dec 18, 2013

doseofreality said:

The verb kill in Exod 20:13 is ratsach in the Hebrew -> Hebrew Lexicon :: H7523 (KJV)

The verb "put to death in Exod 21:16-17 and 19 is muwth in the Hebrew -> Hebrew Lexicon :: H4191 (KJV)

etc.

There's only one occurrence of the verb ratsach in the book of Exodus, which is the obvious explanation for this:

Exodus 20:13

New International Version
"You shall not murder.

New Living Translation
"You must not murder.

English Standard Version
“You shall not murder.

New American Standard Bible
"You shall not murder.

King James Bible
Thou shalt not kill.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Do not murder.

International Standard Version
"You are not to commit murder.

NET Bible
"You shall not murder.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
"Never murder.

Jubilee Bible 2000
Thou shalt not murder.

King James 2000 Bible
You shall not kill.

American King James Version
You shall not kill.

American Standard Version
Thou shalt not kill.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Thou shalt not kill.

Darby Bible Translation
Thou shalt not kill.

English Revised Version
Thou shalt do no murder.

Webster's Bible Translation
Thou shalt not kill.

World English Bible
"You shall not murder.

Young's Literal Translation
'Thou dost not murder.

TaylorTG · Dec 18, 2013

@Doseofreality
Thou Shall Not Kill: Does God Violate His Own Commandment?

doseofreality · Dec 18, 2013

TaylorTG said:

I concede that the definitions are different and God did not "murder" without cause as is described in Ex 20:13.
However, anyone who did not worship God or did any evil gave God just cause to kill them. This led to the killing of other nations of peoples (Amalekites for one) so though the law says "do not murder your fellow Israelite" , they could kill anyone else who was deserving of it.

Does God respect human life? Why is so much killing allowed/commanded? Throughout history people get away with ending life by calling it "justified" and "with just cause" rather than "murder"

didymos · Dec 18, 2013

Fluttershy said:

Yeah that's a problem
if you're trying to push islam, like you do.

RedTent · Dec 18, 2013

doseofreality said:

There are two kinds of death that the bible speaks of. One is the death of our body, the other is the death of our soul. In eternity, or to live on after this body is dead requires that we cleanse ourselves from sin, and that requires some belief in the actual God who can do that. People who do not have the ability to cleanse themselves have no way to live on and although they live in a body, here, they are actually dead.

Fluttershy · Dec 18, 2013

didymos said:

I am atheist. I am not trying to push any religion.

buckets · Dec 18, 2013

Fluttershy said:

You said you are an atheist so I only offer this to help

They do not believe in the same God

The God of Abraham handed down laws to Moses
Islam would deny Allah did this
The God of Abraham gave his Son unto the world to save us from sin
Islam would not accept Jesus as the son of Allah
The God of Abraham said the tribe of Isreal is his chosen people
Islam would not ever say Allah said the Jewish people are God's chosen people
The God of Abraham appointed David King
Islam would not say Allah called David to be king
they simply are not the same

The God of Abraham is God

Allah is no more anything than Zues or Thor... The word can translate to anything that doesn't make it the same
my dogs name translates to duck in French

but French people would not think my dog was a duck
they would get he is a dog named Duck

If the claim is based upon the word Allah meaning god
I don't know I'm not a language expert
but do not confuse language translation and belief or religion

Christians believe Jesus is the Savior Mesiah and God by the way

Fluttershy · Dec 19, 2013

buckets said:

1. And who forsakes the religion of Abraham but he who makes a fool of himself. And certainly We made him pure in this world and in the Hereafter he is surely among the righteous." (2:130)
2. "And when We appointed a time of forty nights with Moses, then you took the calf (for a god) after him, and you were unjust. [52] Then We pardoned you after that so that you might give thanks. [53] And when We gave Moses the Book and the Discrimination that you might walk aright" (2:51-53)
3. "O People of the Book, exceed not the limits in your religion nor speak anything about Allah, but the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, is only a messenger of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Mary and a mercy from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers...." (4:171) *This is the only one which you are correct on.
4. "So they put them to flight by Allah's permission. And David slew Goliath, and Allah gave him kingdom and wisdom and taught him of what He pleased. And were it not for Allah's repelling some men by others, the earth would certainly be in a state of disorder; but Allah is Full of grace to the worlds." (2:252)
5. "O Children of Israel, call to mind My favour which I bestowed on you and that I made you excel the nations. [48] .... [49] And when We delivered you from Pharoah's people, who subjected you to a severe torment,.... [50] And when We parted the sea for you, so We saved you and drowned the people of Pharoah while you saw." (2:47-50)
**And this is mostly from the second Sura (chapter).
6. Your name translation argument - I do not get. 'Allah' is the word 'God' in Arabic...that is all. Don't know how that could be disputed. Some people believe that Allah is a personal name but the word is just 'God' in Arabic - that was to disprove a counter argument, not to prove an argument.

Does it Bother Anyone that Christians and Muslims Fight for the Same God?

didymos

Guest

TaylorTG

Guest

didymos

Guest

TaylorTG

Guest

tripsin

Guest

Anonimous

Guest

jimmydiggs

Guest

Banned

Fluttershy

Guest

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Banned

TaylorTG

Guest

Banned

didymos

Guest

Banned

Fluttershy

Guest

Banned by Admin Team (verified fraud)

Fluttershy

Guest