Lets talk about the Quran

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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,362
29,608
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#21
For every opinion or belief someone may hold there will be another party who just as strongly opposes that idea. Both sides usually claim to sit with the best arguments, the real facts and the correct world view, and (ironcally) both sides regard the other as being indoctrinated, blind to the obvious and outright stupid.

Most people only expose themselves to information that matches their own worldview. It is uncomfortable to do otherwise. Still, we would like to give you some surprising information about Islam. We also urge you to look further than only mainstream media, and if you can find the time for it, read the koran yourself.

To get you started, we'd like to present you three things you probably did not know about Islam.

[video=youtube;fgsrnmzxEUY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgsrnmzxEUY&t=348s[/video]

1. Islam has not been hijacked. That Islam has been hijacked is what non-Muslims naturally assume, because they assume all religions are the same. The reason non-Muslims are so easily confused is that most of us don't realize the difference between the Qur'an and every other religious book we are familiar with.

The Christian Bible is a collection of writings from various authors written sometimes hundreds of years apart, with parables, advice, and dreams, all collected together into one book. Same with the Jewish Torah.

Even those of us in the west who are neither Christians nor Jews, are still familiar enough with these religions to know this much, and therefore we assume the same is true for the Qur'an. But the Qur'an is only one book written by one man in his own lifetime. It is meant to be taken literally, and it is not full of symbolism or vague analogies. It is mostly direct commands.

Of course, the Qur'an contains contradictory statements just like other religious books, but the Qur'an itself provides the reader with a way to know what to do with the contradictions. It's explained in the Qur;an that if you have two passages that contradict each other, the one written later supersedes the one written earlier.

Most westerners are unaware that the peaceful tolerant passages were written early in Mohammed's prophetic career. According to the Qur'an, those passages have been abrogated by later, more violent, and less tolerant passages. So when most westerners hear jihadists quoting violent passages from the Qur'an, and then peaceful Muslims quoting peaceful passages, they interpret that the way they would if someone
was quoting the Bible or the Torah. They think to themselves, oh, there must be many different and contradictory passages, like there are in other religious books, so Muslims can pick and choose what they like and justify whatever actions they want to take.

But the Qur'an is nothing like that. There is no picking and choosing. It says very explicitly and in no uncertain terms that a Muslim must not alter or ignore any part of its very clear and direct message, or they will burn in a fiery torment forever.



Point number three, @ 5:53

Muslims are allowed to deceive non-Muslims if it helps Islam. For non-Muslims, this principle, called taqiyya, is another surprising concept of Islam. While most other religions speak highly of truthfulness, the Qur'an instructs Muslims to lie to non-Muslims about their beliefs and their political ambitions, to protect and spread Islam. There are many examples of today's Islamic leader saying one thing in English for the western press, and then saying something entirely different to their own followers in Arabic a few days later.

Deceiving the enemy is always useful in war, and Islam is at war with the non-Islamic world until the whole world follows Sharia law. All non-Muslims living in non-Islamic states are therefore enemies, so deceiving westerners is totally acceptable - even encouraged - if it can forward the goals of the spread of Islam.

As a recent example, the Islamic American relief agency were seemingly raising money for orphans, but were in fact giving the money to terrorists. They deceived goodhearted western infidels into giving money to organizations that were actively killing western infidels.

Do the research yourself. This is not an isolated case.

Islam as a religion of peace. Muslim organizations worldwide often declare that Islam is a religion of peace. But what does that really mean? It seems easy for a Muslim to quote a peaceful verse from the early parts of the Qur'an while, by following the principle of taqiyya, neglecting to mention the fact that it has been officially abrogated by later more violent verses.

According to the Qur'an, the world will be at peace only when Islam and Sharia reign in every country - and never until then. This is why every Muslim can truthfully say that Islam is a religion of peace.

If any of these (three) points took you by surprise, then there is surely much more you still don't know. This subject will affect you in the near future, so take the chance to inform yourself now - before it does.

The Qur'an on abrogation, Sura 2:106
We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth [one] better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?

Sura 16:101
And when We substitute a verse in place of a verse - and Allah is most knowing of what He sends down - they say, "You, [O Muhammad], are but an inventor [of lies]." But most of them do not know.

Sura 17:86
And if We willed, We could surely do away with that which We revealed to you. Then you would not find for yourself concerning it an advocate against Us.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,362
29,608
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#22
That's cause it's a false religion and we don't care!
It does not surprise me that you do not care, and you are certainly welcome to stay as ignorant of the facts as you like. However, historically, Christians have placed a great deal of value on being educated, which is easily proved, since it was Christians who led the scientific revolution, and started places of higher learning in the form of universities such as Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard, Yale, and Princeton :) Jesus was not ignorant of those who stood against Him...


 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,362
29,608
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#23
Christians sometimes wonder, why should we learn about Islam?
There are lots of reasons why people in general, but especially
Christians, should be learning about Islam. Let's consider five of them.


First, numbers. Islam is the second largest religion in history after Christianity. There are about one point six billion Muslims in the world (1,600,000,000). That's over a fifth of the world's population. There are currently more than twelve hundred (1,200) mosques in the United States, and more than six thousand (6,000) in Europe, and according to many sources, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. So Islam is big, and it is getting bigger. When that many people believe something, it is a good idea to learn what they believe.

Second, Christians can't communicate the gospel clearly to Muslims without understanding what Muslims believe, because the Qur'an distorts the meaning of what Christians claim. For instance, Christians claim that Jesus is the Son of God, but when we say Jesus is the Son of God, Muslims think we are claiming that God had sex with a woman, and produced Jesus as an offspring. They believe this because the Qur'an says, how can Allah have a son, when he has no wife? Sura 6:101

Now, when Christians call Jesus the Son of God, we're not talking about God having sex and producing an offspring. No Christian has ever meant that, but that's what Muslims think we mean, because the Qur'an says that's what it means to call someone the Son of God.

There's a similar problem when it comes to the doctrine of the Trinity. According to the Qur'an sura 5:116, Christians believe in a trinity made up of God, Jesus, and Mary. Here again, no Christian has ever believed this, but there are Muslims who think we believe in a trinity made up of God, Jesus and Mary, because of how the Qur'an distorts Christian doctrines.

So if we don't know what Muslims believe, we won't understand about
how they are misinterpreting what we say when we preach the gospel.


Third, Muslims are trained to challenge the core doctrines of Christianity. Jesus taught His followers lots of things, but when they preached the gospel in the book of Acts, they preached that Jesus is the Divine Son of God, Who died on the cross for sins, and rose from the dead. Deity, death, and resurrection. These are the three core teachings of the Christian gospel. Islam denies all three of them, and so Muslims are taught to challenge Christians on these issues.

Muslims are taught to attack Christianity where it matters most. If Christians do not know about Islam, we don't know how Muslims are going to challenge our beliefs and we are not going to know how to challenge their beliefs.

[video=youtube;NDsMn15jmRU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDsMn15jmRU[/video]

Fourth, many Muslims are so confident that Islam is true, because they have been told all their lives that it is indisputably true, that they can't seriously consider any alternatives to Islam.

My best friend in college was a Muslim; that's why I started studying Islam. We talked about Christianity for a couple of years, but, he was so confident that Islam was true, he really wasn't taking Christianity seriously. It was only after we began looking at some of the problems with Mohammed and the Qur'an, that he realized maybe what I've been told about Islam all my life isn't true. Maybe I need to think through this more carefully.

He's a Christian now. He's one of the speakers for Ravi Zacharias International Ministries. So giving Muslims some facts about Muhammad is crucial, and we can't give them these facts unless we know what the facts are.

Fifth, Islam thrives in an atmosphere of ignorance

I've met lots of converts to Islam over the years, but I have never met a single person who converted to Islam after carefully studying Islam. When I meet a convert to Islam and I ask ,why did you convert to Islam? It is almost always because the person has being given some false information. The reason so many people fall for this false information is that there is a general atmosphere of ignorance about Islam, which allows Muslim preachers to say pretty much whatever they want, because no one is going to correct them. These preachers are then free to adapt their message to the values of their audience.

In the west we believe in women's rights, so the Muslim preacher says, "You believe in women's rights? Muhammad was a champion of women's rights! He was probably the greatest defender of women who ever lived."

People in the West usually have a high respect for science, so the Muslim preacher says, "The Qur'an is filled with scientific claims that could only verified centuries after Muhammad's death. Science proves that Islam is the truth!"

In an area where no one knows much about Islam, many people believe what they hear from these Muslim preachers, and they convert to Islam. The only way this is going to stop is if we get to a point where we know enough about Islam to refute false claims. When a Muslim preacher says,
Muhammad was a champion of women's rights,
hands need to go up to question him about Qur'an verses that refute him.

(Recap) So Islam is already a massive religion and it is growing rapidly. Muslims often don't understand the gospel because they re misinterpreting our claims based on the Qur'an's distortion of our claims.

Muslims have been taught to criticize core Christian doctrines

Many Muslims can't take the gospel seriously until their own beliefs have been challenged

And people are converting to Islam based on false information

All of these are reasons for Christians to learn about Islam.
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
2,985
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#24
Maybe next you can read the satanic bible and find some verses that are not what they seem to be





That's cause it's a false religion and we don't care!

Our walk is with the Lord, not our reading what false gods are saying in their anti-Christ literature.

We have the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ and His anointing of power and His love... that's what makes the difference, not arguing and debating with muzlims on a carnal minded level to see if one can match wits with them.
Well I personally see Islam as a MAJOR threat to the world, not only that there is more than a billion and a half people on this earth that are under this false deceptive system. I think that learning exactly what these people believe and why they believe it is a good idea. Not only that I want to share the truth of Jesus with them, if I know exactly how they look at things and what exactly they believe, the better I can approach them in a way the can relate to.

I guess educating yourself about these type things is a bad idea? Can you please tell me why educating yourself about Islam is a bad idea? Is sticking our heads in the sand a better approach?
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#25
"I believe it is extremely important for every Christian to know that : p"

i agree, especially with the pc movements in the world today that are moving toward omittance of the scriptures that "dont make any and everyone feel welcome" so many christians think "well, were all worshipping the same God, doesnt matter what religion were in" But eternal Life and everything we have that is true came to us from the Father, through the Son.

posts like you have shared Here are extremely important especially in the world today with the subtle movements away from what The Bible says of things, so thankful that God purposely Had His word written for us, so we cant be deceived in any way if we Hold fast to the truth we learn through Jesus !!

thanks for sharing what the Lord has given you to study in this matter...
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#26
good post there, since 7th century ad muslims have been warring with Gods people both Jew and christian. they have been focused on Jerusalem since the seige in the 630s, Built a mosque on the temple mound of God in late 7th century, with several inscriptuons declaring that God has no son, Nor is He a father to any. to me, this is possibly the abomination that caused desolation, to place a mosque on Gods holy temple mount, basically in different words decalring that Gods word the bible is a lie after the 5 books of moses. which they also altar meanings in to further decieve and create support for thier religion.

the entire reason isis exists is islamic prophecy fighting its way toward damascus, and then jerusalem. so interesting to read some of the end times prophecy in isalam and compare it to the christian end time prophecy. it fits perfectly with the religion of the beast, and events were told of, Only it fits opposite what we believe as christians. Once i started studying a bit about what you are saying here, it to me anyways, really was eye opening.
 

Crustyone

Senior Member
Mar 15, 2015
697
50
28
#27
It does not surprise me that you do not care, and you are certainly welcome to stay as ignorant of the facts as you like. However, historically, Christians have placed a great deal of value on being educated, which is easily proved, since it was Christians who led the scientific revolution, and started places of higher learning in the form of universities such as Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard, Yale, and Princeton :) Jesus was not ignorant of those who stood against Him...
Just a quick sideline note. Christians started colleges to teach christian subjects, but the colleges were gradually subverted to anti-christian learning centers with a few exceptions like Hillsdale College and Jerry Falwells college, the name of which escapes me now.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,362
29,608
113
#28
Just a quick sideline note. Christians started colleges to teach christian subjects, but the colleges were gradually subverted to anti-christian learning centers with a few exceptions like Hillsdale College and Jerry Falwells college, the name of which escapes me now.
Hello Crustyone, always lovely to see you posting :) Yes, I am aware that the institutions Christians began have been largely taken over by leftist ideologies which deny reality, teach against God's Word, and promote a false tolerance which embraces Islam, another ideology which seeks to destroy our freedoms and Christian way of life. All the more reason for us to educate ourselves...
 

Oncefallen

Idiot in Chief
Staff member
Jan 15, 2011
6,066
3,416
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#29
Moved here from the Singles Forum at the OP's request.
 

Yeraza_Bats

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
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#30
This is actually from a hadith, but since the hadiths are literally just commentary for the quran its still on topic : p

I found this posted elsewhere today-

"Fighting the Jews and Christians is legislated because They are Idolators and Disbelievers: Allah the Exalted encourages the believers to fight the polytheists, disbelieving Jews and Christians, who uttered this terrible statement and utter lies against Allah, the Exalted. As for the Jews, they claimed that Uzayr was the son of God, Allah is free of what they attribute to Him. As for the misguidance of Christians over Jesus, it is obvious. This is why Allah declared both groups to be liars"(Tafsir Ibn Kathir vol. 10 p405-8)

Although Islam speaks out against all non-believers, it really focuses on Christians and Jews.

I think its no surprise that it does, either : p There is one thing about Islam that did help me, after learning about Islam for myself, it actually did strengthen my faith in Him.
All this effort to discredit the Gospel, and to turn others against His people and the followers of Christ, it is clear to me that there is an outside source who really wants to lead people away from Him : p
 

Yeraza_Bats

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
3,632
175
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#31
I have not been around much lately : p

Anywho, I wanted to point something out. Its something thats already been shown on youtube channels such as Acts 17 and 1nemind but I wanted to point it out anyway.

Anyone who has talked with Muslims online before knows that they like to throw the pork argument out against Christians. I guess they think they have a more valid argument due to following a law given to the Jews by Moses : p

But, Muhammad totally allowed for the eating of camel.


Quran 22:36 "And the camels and cattle We have appointed for you as among the symbols of Allah ; for you therein is good. So mention the name of Allah upon them when lined up [for sacrifice]; and when they are [lifeless] on their sides, then eat from them and feed the needy and the beggar. Thus have We subjected them to you that you may be grateful."
https://quran.com/22/36

For anyone curious as to why thats important-

Leviticus 11
11 And the Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying to them, 2 “Speak to the people of Israel, saying, These are the living things that you may eat among all the animals that are on the earth. 3 Whatever parts the hoof and is cloven-footed and chews the cud, among the animals, you may eat. 4 Nevertheless, among those that chew the cud or part the hoof, you shall not eat these: The camel, because it chews the cud but does not part the hoof, is unclean to you.

Apparently Muhammad did not know about this verse : p

Someone on youtube was telling me that Muhammad forbid Muslims from eating camel, but I dont know if thats at all true because he did not show me a verse. But even if he did, he would have contradicted himself anyway : p