Parsing Oneness & Co-Equal

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FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
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#1
Scripture proclaims: The Father, Son & Holy Spirit are all God.

Jesus is God: Isa 7:14 & 9:6, Micah 5:2, Matt 1:23, Jn 1:1 & 20:28, 1 Tim 3:16 Titus 2:13 Rom 9:5 Rev 1:8.

Holy Spirit (alway's capitalized showing deity) is God: Ps 139:7-8, Acts 5:3-4 & 13:2, Eph 4:30, 1 Cor 2:10-11, 12:4-7, 2 Cor 13:14

God the Son/Jesus the Christ, pre-existed prior the his incarnation & is our Gen 1, Creator/God:

John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(NOTE: Before the flash point of creation. The Word/Son/Jesus was with God (The Father) and was/is also God)

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
(NOTE: God-Pre-incarnate Christ MADE/CREATED ALL THINGS! Christ/Son of God is the Gen 1 creator)

Col 1:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
(NOTE: Christ CREATED ALL THINGS! God the Son/Christ/Jesus is our worlds Gen 1 creator)

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
(NOTE: God the Son MADE THE WORLDS! God the Son/Christ/Jesus is the Gen 1 creator)

Jn:
3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(NOTE: God the Father gave his Son)

6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
(NOTE: God the Son/Jesus say's; I was sent from heaven by the God the Father. Before the flash point of creation, God Father sends the Son. Its here God the Son begins the work of reconciliton/salvation.)

6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
(NOTE: The Son of man (Christ in the flesh) ascends (Acts 1:9-12). Going back to where he pre-existed)

Jn 8:23 Jesus said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
(NOTE: The SON of God/Jesus say's, he's from above & not from this world)

8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
(NOTE: The Son of God proclaims he preexisted)

Jn 16:28 Jesus said, I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father
(NOTE: The SON of God/Jesus say's, He came forth from the Father (did he leave himself?) He will return to the Father. Although, The Son is ONE WITH, he's NOT the Father)

Jn 17:5 O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
(NOTE: Before the world began, the Son, enjoyed glory "WITH" the Father. "NOT AS" the Father)

KJV Dictionary Definition: BOSOM
Bosom, in composition, implies intimacy, affection and confidence; as a bosom-friend, an intimate or confidential friend; bosom-lover, bosom-interest, bosom-secret, etc

Jn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the """bosom of the Father""".
(NOTE: I submitt to you, neither the Father or Son, are having an intimate relationship with one's self. PUN INTENDED)

The bond of: Fleshly oneness
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
QUESTION: Do they actually become the person?)

Mk 10:7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;

8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
QUESTION: Do they literally become one flesh?)

1 Cor 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
QUESTION: Do they actually become one flesh?)

Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
QUESTION: Do they literally become one flesh?)

Spiritual oneness:

Jn 10:30 I and my Father are one.
(NOTE: SPIRITUALLY ONE)

Jn 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
(NOTE: SPIRITUAL ONENESS)

Jn 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
(NOTE: SPIRITUAL ONENESS)

Jn 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
(NOTE: SPIRITUAL ONENESS)

Jn 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
(NOTE: SPIRITUAL ONENESS, HERE, THOSE THAT HAVE BEEN INDEWLT WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT ARE INCLUDED)

Jn 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
(NOTE: SPIRITUAL ONENESS, THOSE THAT ARE INDEWLT VIA THE HOLY SPIRIT ARE INCLUDED)

Rom 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
(NOTE: Does one body = one person? NO! The millions/billions = ONE SPIRITUAL BODY)

Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
(NOTE: Christ is the head of the church: He is the saviour of a numerous ""SPIRITUAL BODY OF ONE"")

1 Cor 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
(NOTE: The HEAD of Christ, is God the the Father)

Scripture states 4 TIMES: "God the Father" said to "God the Son" Sit at my right hand.

Ps 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Matt 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Luk 20:42 David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
(NOTE: The LORD ISN'T talking to HIMSELF!)

When Jesus prays to the Father: IS HE PRAYING TO HIMSELF?

Jn 14:28 Jesus say's, the Father is greater then him: DID JESUS LIE HERE?

John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
(NOTE: Jesus said: I came from the Father, I leave this world & return to the Father.
QUESTION: IS JESUS RETURNING TO HIMSELF?)

Heb 10:12 (C) after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
(This isn't the earthly Jesus. This is the risen/glorified Jesus & HE DOESN'T SIT DOWN NEXT TO HIMSELF?)

Rev 5:7 And he (VS 5 the Loin of the tribe of Juda, ve 6 the Lamb) came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
(NOTE: This isn't the earthly Jesus. This is the risen/glorified Lamb/Jesus. DOESN'T TAKE THE BOOK OUT OF HIS OWN HAND!)

Rom 8:17 We're children, "heirs also", "heirs of God & fellow heirs with Christ
(NOTE: Believers are fellow heirs of God the Father, with Christ. Is Christ an heir to himself?)

Heb 1:2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, thru whom also He made the world
(NOTE: God the Father appointed God the Son HEIR of ALL things within our realm. Even though they are of the same Godly substance/firey brilliance. It belonged to the Father, they didn't have a CO-EQUAL share)

Find 3 post resurrection verses where God the Son SAT DOWN at the right hand (NOT on the throne) of God the Father (& NOT next to himself) Mk 16:19, Heb 1:3, Heb 10:12

God the Father sends God the Son:
Jn 3:16, 5:23, 30, 36 & 37, 6:38 & 39, 6:57, 8:42, 10;36, 12:49. Can anyone provide a scripture, where anyone sends the Father?

God the Father gives to God the Son: Jn 3:35, 5:22 & 26, 6:37&39, 10:29, 13:3 16:28. Can anyone provide a scripture, where anyone gives anything to the Father?

If the Father & Son are the same person, what's the point in any of the following verses? Everyone of these verses were written POST RESURRECTION! Gal 1:1 & 3, Eph 6:23, Php 2:11, 1 Th 1:1, 2 Ti 1:2, Tit 1:4, 1 Pe 1:2, 2 Pe 1:17, 2 Jn 1:3, Jud 1:1 Jude

Pay special attention vs 28!

1 Cor 15:
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

When all is comlpete/fulfilled (after the white throne). The Son will what? SUBJECT, ALL THINGS INCLUDING HIMSELF, unto the Father, that gave them to him. Within our universe, Christ, will FOREVER remain King of Kings & Lord of Lords. Why? Because the Father, rewarded his just redemptive works. And has GIVEN ALL THINGS WITHIN OUR UNIVERSE TO HIM.

I understand many may disagree with these opinions. No harm, no foul, that’s your privilege. I'm simply sharing thoughts on this topic & bible verses.

My view isn't going to lead anyone into a lost eternity. For that we all must choose for ourselves. MOO!
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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#2
Yes, Jesus and our heavenly Father have one Spirit for which we also have access. This is where those that insist God is three separate persons/entities miss the mark. My mind's eye can picture a glorified Jesus and Father, but I can't comprehend the Holy Spirit. I mean it is everywhere at once, in us, in Jesus and in the Father.

It is like the power for force of God, but it is not diminished by giving it out. In fact, it is like love. The more you give out the more you still have. You spread it around and it comes back in aces. Once evil is purged from God's universe, this love will permeate everything. Talk about utopia! :cool:
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,080
202
63
#3
Yes, Jesus and our heavenly Father have one Spirit for which we also have access. This is where those that insist God is three separate persons/entities miss the mark. My mind's eye can picture a glorified Jesus and Father, but I can't comprehend the Holy Spirit. I mean it is everywhere at once, in us, in Jesus and in the Father.

It is like the power for force of God, but it is not diminished by giving it out. In fact, it is like love. The more you give out the more you still have. You spread it around and it comes back in aces. Once evil is purged from God's universe, this love will permeate everything. Talk about utopia! :cool:
The Scriptures do not refer to God the Holy Spirit as "it", the Scriptures refer to the Holy Spirit as "He" (the third Person of The Trinity). John 16v7,8,13,14,15 (and so forth).

I would suggest opening your Bible and doing a study on The Trinity, the truth of which is clearly revealed in Scripture as regards The Godhead.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
15,358
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#4
As a Pentecostal (oneness) minister I would love to chip in here...

But I'm here to hang out, not argue about stuff.

Y'all have fun.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#5
The Scriptures do not refer to God the Holy Spirit as "it", the Scriptures refer to the Holy Spirit as "He" (the third Person of The Trinity). John 16v7,8,13,14,15 (and so forth).

I would suggest opening your Bible and doing a study on The Trinity, the truth of which is clearly revealed in Scripture as regards The Godhead.
Oh, I opened my bible but couldn't find any reference to "trinity." Okay, I will call the Holy Spirit "He" if you like. It doesn't change anything. If you can explain to me just how the HS is everywhere at once, in you and in me, in Jesus, and in the Father in heaven: Just how "He" is a person I will grant it to you. :cool::)
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,074
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#6
There are massive problems with such kinds of ideas; at Jesus' baptism, we see Jesus standing there being baptized and the Holy spirit descending in the form of a dove and the Father speaking from heaven declaring His love for Jesus- in that very instance, was Jesus as an individual, one person and one God?

If your answer is yes, then the description of God can not be three persons in one because also one person in one perfectly describes God. If your answer is no, you don't have a clue of what you are talking about.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
741
236
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#7
There are massive problems with such kinds of ideas; at Jesus' baptism, we see Jesus standing there being baptized and the Holy spirit descending in the form of a dove and the Father speaking from heaven declaring His love for Jesus- in that very instance, was Jesus as an individual, one person and one God?

If your answer is yes, then the description of God can not be three persons in one because also one person in one perfectly describes God. If your answer is no, you don't have a clue of what you are talking about.
If that post was for me. My question to you, would be:

The voice from Heaven in (Matt 3:17) that said "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."

Was Jesus well pleased with & talking about/to himself?
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,074
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#8
If that post was for me. My question to you, would be:

The voice from Heaven in (Matt 3:17) that said "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."

Was Jesus well pleased with & talking about/to himself?
Nope. It was all happening in the spirit/mind. No one else heard the voice or saw the dove but only Jesus and John the baptist. It was mainly meant for John because he was the one to identify and introduce the Messiah.

John 1:32Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him.33And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ 34I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One.”
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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#9
Nope. It was all happening in the spirit/mind. No one else heard the voice or saw the dove but only Jesus and John the baptist. It was mainly meant for John because he was the one to identify and introduce the Messiah.

John 1:32Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him.33And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ 34I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One.”
How do you know this Noose? Were you there handing out questionnaires? giggle.gif
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,074
932
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#10
How do you know this Noose? Were you there handing out questionnaires? View attachment 195293
1. John's testimony is clear, "...“I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him.33And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ ..

2. In other gospels, the voice is recorded to be saying "..you are my son, in you i'm well pleased.."
This is not a statement that everyone or anyone could hear because it was meant for a specific person

3. Numerous prophesies in the OT declare John to be the one to prepare the way and no one else. Therefore, he was the one appointed to identify the Messiah.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
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#11
1. John's testimony is clear, "...“I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him.33And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ ..

2. In other gospels, the voice is recorded to be saying "..you are my son, in you i'm well pleased.."
This is not a statement that everyone or anyone could hear because it was meant for a specific person

3. Numerous prophesies in the OT declare John to be the one to prepare the way and no one else. Therefore, he was the one appointed to identify the Messiah.
Seemingly, your explanation of John's testimony isn't singular either. John knew the one that sent him. Yet, he didn't know Jesus. Secondly, the passage say's: The one you see, being, baptized/anointed with the Holy Spirit. Is the one that will later baptize, with, the Holy Spirit.

So, I ask, is Jesus baptizing, himself here, or is he being baptized/anointed with the Holy Spirit. By the voice/Father from Heaven?
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,074
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#12
Seemingly, your explanation of John's testimony isn't singular either. John knew the one that sent him. Yet, he didn't know Jesus. Secondly, the passage say's: The one you see, being, baptized/anointed with the Holy Spirit. Is the one that will later baptize, with, the Holy Spirit.

So, I ask, is Jesus baptizing, himself here, or is he being baptized/anointed with the Holy Spirit. By the voice/Father from Heaven?
I still don't understand your argument. John knew the one who sent him and the one he was sent to identify when he was still in the womb (he kicked his mother-according to the scriptures), yet the Messiah was to be identified publicly and John was the man to do it; this just God's doing even if John doesn't understand like the case when he was still in the womb.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
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#13
I have no argument, I placed an opinion piece. With many scripture I believe support my position.

And this was your opinion without supporting scripture reply:

QUOTE: There are massive problems with such kinds of ideas; at Jesus' baptism, we see Jesus standing there being baptized and the Holy spirit descending in the form of a dove and the Father speaking from heaven declaring His love for Jesus- in that very instance, was Jesus as an individual, one person and one God?

If your answer is yes, then the description of God can not be three persons in one because also one person in one perfectly describes God. If your answer is no, you don't have a clue of what you are talking about. END QUOTE...

I was simply doing my best to answer your reply. I presented my belief of the Oneness doctrine (IT'S SPIRITUAL ONENESS) And my disagreement with this CO-EQUAL in all way's doctrine. Peace
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,566
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#14
God will be what He will be. He said this to Moses...……….no further understanding of His Mystery should be necessary for aqny with faith. He says He is One. Faith says He4 is One. though in the day He referred to Himself in th ePluraql.

What, as His children, we do not yet unnerstand, faith should suffice útil He reveals all we will one day know implicitely.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
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#15
Truly FAITH is our vehicle, revelations come via FAITH when we search & study scripture continuously.

Matt 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

Matt 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

2 Tim 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Matt 7:7 search & study scripture continuously, Matt 22:29 to know scripture search & study continuously, Acts 17:11 Scripture calls Bereans noble for searching & studying continuously, Rom 15:4 is we search & study scripture continuously we will learn patience & hope, 2 Tim 3:15 Timothy had been as a child taught to search & study scripture continuously & Paul is still teaching hin as an adult.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,136
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#16
Oh, I opened my bible but couldn't find any reference to "trinity." Okay, I will call the Holy Spirit "He" if you like. It doesn't change anything. If you can explain to me just how the HS is everywhere at once, in you and in me, in Jesus, and in the Father in heaven: Just how "He" is a person I will grant it to you. :cool::)
If there ever was a first time that Father spoke, and He spoke Son....Yeshua manifested....and so did Holy Spirit which is the Spirit of Father as Yeshua manifests.

Is what I was told in a "picture". :)
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,136
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#17
Also, the word bosom in Greek means among other things....bay.

Picture the ocean....Father....then flowing into a bay; Jesus. Only contained bodily but the power one can't contain. And only God can control.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#18
Also, the word bosom in Greek means among other things....bay.

Picture the ocean....Father....then flowing into a bay; Jesus. Only contained bodily but the power one can't contain. And only God can control.
The vision I was given of the Godhead was two figures standing while the Holy Spirit was like light radiating out and blindingly going everywhere. The light actually entering me. :)(y):love:
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,136
1,560
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#19
The vision I was given of the Godhead was two figures standing while the Holy Spirit was like light radiating out and blindingly going everywhere. The light actually entering me. :)(y):love:
Awesome! I love His pictures of revelation!
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
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#20
Parsing Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hashem Echad" God is One!

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

In Deuteronomy 6:4 The Hebrew word Echad translates One. However, echad/one, means UNITY not SINGULARITY.

Another example of echad: Gen 2:24 echad speaks about the husband & wife being ONE flesh. Husband & wife aren't a singular being. They are in unity with each other.

There is another Hebrew word, YACHID, this word means ABSOLUTE SINGULARITY. Yachid is never used as a reference to God.