submitting

Quote "I see this "helpful" stuff more as flexing ones muscles and passive aggressive control issues."

Blondie you are new here yourself. Your statement is purely judgmental. Ive been here about a year and have never found Blue Ladybug controlling or passive aggressive.Shes well liked by the majority of posters here.Trust me Ive seen controlling people on here and she's not one of them.

Skittlepumpkin is the only one who knows why she posted here. Again ladybug was being helpful.You're making a big deal of nothing and being very rude in the process. I dont care what you're entertaining, you dont have to be rude to make a point.In my opinion you owe ladybug an apology for judging her. Your attitude isnt very humble or Christlike.

Skittlepumpkin Im sorry for this derailing of your thread...

Ah, okay! Well I don't feel so dumb then
Also, thanks Ladybug; I'll be more careful where I post

Kayla, for your sanity and to keep more than just your last nerve in tact, let it go. Everyone, but one, understood what Blue meant. My brother once got his finger stuck (painfully -- they really clamp shut tight) in a box turtle's shell. Box turtles don't know enough to release the finger, so brother was stuck like that for 45 minutes. Something like what's going on here.

I'm not acting self-appointed. That's all in YOUR little imagination. You find it annoying, then don't read my posts. At least I TRY to be helpful to new people.

I think "ladies" should be changed to lady. Blue ladybug did nothing wrong.Its time to let it go and stop derailing the thread.

Back to the OP, how does submission work in certain cases? Meaning if the husband is mentally ill, has a brain tumor, dementia, etc? What is the wife supposed to do then, "assume" the role of the husband?

Pssst, sometimes it's good to know when to walk away.

(Oh come on! Surely you see the humor in me telling you this, right? lol)

Lol you always crack me up and have a good lesson in there too! I do agree it just irks me when someone new comes in and starts throwing their weight around and saying things about other posters that they dont even know yet.On another thread blondie is posting things that I totally agree with,she's dead on. But here shes wrong. Just come in and get to know people before you make an opinion of them. Dont have to get up in peoples faces.It was a minor issue,nothing to get so worked up about.

Ok Im not touching the turtle. See? Backing away...

I HAVE let it go..lol.. I asked a question about submission, and no one wants to answer it.

I know what hubby wants in that case. (Pretty sure he doesn't get mental illness, but his brother and mother died of brain tumors, and my dad has dementia, so we've had this talk too.) He knows what I want. Some times you have to plan ahead. It's still submitting.

Okay, but let's say you HAVEN'T planned ahead. One of you develops dementia, and loses all touch with reality. Hubby says he wants to sell the house, and live out of your vehicle. Or some such crazy request. Now obviously YOU know he doesn't know what he's saying, BUT do you still submit to his wishes, and sell the house and live out of your car? And if you DON'T, how is that submitting to what he says?

i know, i know, my examples are silly.. lol

Although Ephesians 5 never offers a stipulation to submitting, i.e. "Submit as long as your husband is a Christian", I would generally agree that if the husband is not submitting to the Lord, it would make it difficult for a wife to follow his lead. The key in this passage is the husband's self sacrifice for the spiritual purity and the holiness of his wife. However, I do not feel based on your example alone, that it is a "good enough" reason to not submit. My reasoning for this is found in 1 Peter 3, where he instructs wives to submit, even if their husbands are disobedient to the Lord, so that they "may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives when they see your respectful and pure conduct". I'm not trying to take the wind out of your sails, and I'm sure you will choose wisely for your next spouse, but be aware that God asks us to love/respect our wives/husbands, even when they are not lovable or respectable.

I am going to humbly submit that loving and respecting a husband is not submitting to them. I loved and respected plenty. If I wanted my children to never go to church or pray or hear devotions then I would've submitted. However a man who says he is a christian but doesnt act accordingly as a christian shouldn't have a wife who submits. The moment a woman becomes a mother she will want them to have the best. Should the other parent look at it as a distraction from him being the priority. At that point the mother should be the strong christian she is and guide and teach the children. As to choosing wisely next time I will only date a christian who has been a christian for numerous years. So no worries there. Is also like to point out if a wife submits to the husband in regards to finances but the husband can't save a dime and spends on anything with no thought...why would the wife submit to him in that area if they will end up penniless?

I am going to humbly submit that loving and respecting a husband is not submitting to them. I loved and respected plenty. If I wanted my children to never go to church or pray or hear devotions then I would've submitted. However a man who says he is a christian but doesnt act accordingly as a christian shouldn't have a wife who submits. The moment a woman becomes a mother she will want them to have the best. Should the other parent look at it as a distraction from him being the priority. At that point the mother should be the strong christian she is and guide and teach the children. As to choosing wisely next time I will only date a christian who has been a christian for numerous years. So no worries there. Is also like to point out if a wife submits to the husband in regards to finances but the husband can't save a dime and spends on anything with no thought...why would the wife submit to him in that area if they will end up penniless?

Back to the OP, how does submission work in certain cases? Meaning if the husband is mentally ill, has a brain tumor, dementia, etc? What is the wife supposed to do then, "assume" the role of the husband?

The passage I quoted in 1 Peter directly contradicts the bolded statement above. You respecting/submitting to (same thing essentially) your husband does not depend on him behaving a certain way. That's like saying if you, as a wife, act in a disrespectful manner (all women do at some point), then your husband has the option not to love you as Christ does. Recall that we agree on one thing: you should submit to your husband inasmuch as you are not in direct conflict with God's word. Even if you date/marry a christian who has been a christian for a number of years, this will continue to be a problem at certain times in your marriage. At those times, I think it would be a mistake to say, "well he's not acting like a christian, so I don't have to show him respect and submit". I'm not trying to be combative with you, and I know that you have a good 12-13 years of life experience on me. Just find a good Bible-based marriage counselor when the time comes, because I'm certain that they will give you the same advice.

You and I could certainly be combative on this subject. Is if the husband is sinning and commands me to not go to church. I should submit to him? I think not. I still am intelligent and loved by GOD for whom I am. Even if my husband was the strongest christian in the world, and he asked me to submit to his will and drink alcohol nightly with him i wouldn't. First of all im allergic and second if I wanted too I have no desire. Submitting and respect are to different things. I can respect a man and his position so to say, but I won't submit to his desires I disagree with or that I believe GOD would disagree with. As to the marriage counselor or should I say my pastor at the time. He advised I stay on the path best for me and the kids, not the path the husband wanted. Henceforth not submitting to his will...but submitting to GODs will. So I will respectfully say we will agree to disagree on this subject.

Like I said, you are essentially agreeing with my position, but you're not realizing it.

In the first case, if your husband commands you to stay home instead of going to church, you probably should not submit to that. Agreed. In the case of alcohol, it is going against a biblical conviction that you have. So again, agreed.

The reason I'm grouping submission and respect together is that they go hand in hand. Submission and respect are more about the attitude of the heart than your actions, since your actions naturally follow your attitudes. Your responsibility is to submit to God first and foremost. But what about the cases and decisions that are not issues of Biblical proportion in which you have the opportunity to show your husband respect? There are many more of these. The original Greek word 'submit' has the idea of "cooperate". It's that attitude of cooperation and helpfulness from a wife that empowers and energizes a husband to lead his family optimally. And I'll tell you from a man's perspective: when we feel respected by our wives, we are always emboldened to love deeply, to live passionately, and to sacrifice profoundly.

As we well know, scripture tells wives to submit themselves to their husbands. But what if the wife's husband is not a Christian; what if he doesn't submit to the Lord? Is there ever a time when a wife shouln't submit to her husband?