The Brexit Thread

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M

Miri

Guest
#81
#81
Unless something else happens, it looks like a no deal Brexit on the
12.4.19.

For anyone interested the Prime Minister’s deal has been rejected by
parliament twice. They then decided to see if the MPs could come up with
a deal which had a majority and did various test votes - they couldn’t.

This final vote has been rejected as well.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-47696409
 
M

Miri

Guest
#83
#83
Looks like a no deal looming.
Labour Party want trade agreement with the EU, which would rules out making our own agreements with other countries as we would be bound by EU laws.

Conservatives don’t want an EU trade agreement as they want to trade with other countries.

Really can’t understand why it has to be either one or the other. I’m pretty sure non EU countries trade with both the EU and the rest of the world.

Don’t understand why our politicians are so blinkered.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48304867
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#84
Jul 2, 2011
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#84
The day brexit was first announced, in my heart I though, "Oh, another US attitude, now in the UK, and it is self-destructive." I believe I hve been quite well proven correct on that.

It is my heart's desire for the UK to be a full member of the EU, but if the government there likes what it is causing, there is nothing we are given to be able to do other than ask the Lord's intervention for the good of all.

I will still love English drama on the tube, and those so many good Brits………… I will never be for politicians, not my thing. I have a KIng.
 
tanakh

tanakh

Senior Member
#85
Dec 1, 2015
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#85
JaumeJ said:
The day brexit was first announced, in my heart I though, "Oh, another US attitude, now in the UK, and it is self-destructive." I believe I hve been quite well proven correct on that.

It is my heart's desire for the UK to be a full member of the EU, but if the government there likes what it is causing, there is nothing we are given to be able to do other than ask the Lord's intervention for the good of all.

I will still love English drama on the tube, and those so many good Brits………… I will never be for politicians, not my thing. I have a KIng.
Click to expand...

It may be your desire but in 2016 there was a democratic vote here and the result was for the UK to leave and ever since then there has also been a concerted effort to undermine it and prevent it from happening. The end product is the political mess we are now in and in
many losing any faith in our democratic system. Instead of Teresa May wasting two years We should have left the EU shortly after
the vote was declared and then negotiated with Brussels. As she has said a number of times'' Leave means Leave''
 
tanakh

tanakh

Senior Member
#86
Dec 1, 2015
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#86
Miri said:
Looks like a no deal looming.
Labour Party want trade agreement with the EU, which would rules out making our own agreements with other countries as we would be bound by EU laws.

Conservatives don’t want an EU trade agreement as they want to trade with other countries.

Really can’t understand why it has to be either one or the other. I’m pretty sure non EU countries trade with both the EU and the rest of the world.

Don’t understand why our politicians are so blinkered.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48304867
Click to expand...
The whole thing is a stitch up. Perhaps the EU election results will knock some sense into them all next week when Nigel Farage
does his stuff!!
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#87
Jul 2, 2011
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#87
tanakh said:
It may be your desire but in 2016 there was a democratic vote here and the result was for the UK to leave and ever since then there has also been a concerted effort to undermine it and prevent it from happening. The end product is the political mess we are now in and in
many losing any faith in our democratic system. Instead of Teresa May wasting two years We should have left the EU shortly after
the vote was declared and then negotiated with Brussels. As she has said a number of times'' Leave means Leave''
Click to expand...
Because the government is a democracy, and because much doubt has been obvious since that democratic vote, there is democratic reason fro another vote. It is not written in stone, or is it?
 
M

Miri

Guest
#88
#88
JaumeJ said:
Because the government is a democracy, and because much doubt has been obvious since that democratic vote, there is democratic reason fro another vote. It is not written in stone, or is it?
Click to expand...

If anything it’s likely more people will vote for Brexit now.
We recently had some local council elections across the country. Lots of people spoilt
their votes by writing that they wanted Brexit and none of them were worth
voting for.

So many others votes were for fringe or Brexit parties that the two main political
parties lost loads of seats as they can’t sort Brexit out.


People who would normally vote conversative didn’t vote for them as they have
failed to deliver Brexit.

People who would normally have voted Labour didn’t vote for them as they have
stood in the way of Brexit.


https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/local-elections-2019-spoiled-ballot-card-brexit/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...servatives-green-party-lib-dems-a8897431.html


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48091592
 
tanakh

tanakh

Senior Member
#89
Dec 1, 2015
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#89
JaumeJ said:
Because the government is a democracy, and because much doubt has been obvious since that democratic vote, there is democratic reason fro another vote. It is not written in stone, or is it?
Click to expand...
The Parliament is there to serve the people who voted it in. On this issue members are ignoring the majority to serve themselves.
How many referendums does one need before our Parliament decides to listen to the people who elected it? The main opposition
party is calling for a 'peoples vote' We had one in 2016. We had another peoples vote a few weeks ago at local elections when the main parties got a political kicking. They are going to get an even bigger one next week when the Brexit Party fields its candidates. This party was formed only a few weeks ago and they already have 100,000 members and its still growing.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#90
Nov 20, 2018
18,409
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#90
Miri said:
I really don’t know how Brexit will pan out, no one does it’s never happened before.

Although oddly since Brexit was announced employment rate has gone down.
This is just my opinion but I suspect this is due to the government welfare cuts
and child benefit cuts rather than Brexit. More people are now working but a lot
of those jobs are part time and zero hours contracts.

Some companies say they will pull out of the UK, others have pledged to stay.
Some business leaders are getting excited about trading with other countries
outside of the EU (which they are not free to do at present due to EU laws),
while others are saying we will be doomed if we can’t trade with the EU.

Truth is no one knows on that one.

I’m not sure about the medical health outside of the UK, do other EU countries
pay for own health care? I thought they did.

The media over here has had several large news stories about medical tourism
to the UK, where people, especially pregnant women come to the UK, have their
babies free, then return back to their own EU country. Although from what I can see
partly it’s due to the lax attention to detail of the NHS, in failing to bill people and
chase up debts. Although maybe it’s impossible to recover money ones people have
returned to their own country.

There was a massive issue uncovered, where people where coming to the UK,
registering with a GP and given a UK address. Getting a green card, then weeks
later returning to their own country with this green card abd getting all their
medical bills paid for by the NHS. Again though that’s an issue with the NHS for
being so gullible.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peoplenotinwork/unemployment/timeseries/mgsx/lms
Click to expand...
It should have never happened to start with. Now the messy expensive divorce. Better to be rid of the EU demonic forces.....

The wise perceive and understand the many and varied symbols of this EU poster.
All of it wicked, all of it sinister, all of it Satanic.....

eu-min.PNG
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#91
Jul 2, 2011
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#91
Only because I have seen and see the UK outside the EU UP TO mARGARET Thatcher, I would love to see it remain and as a full member, but it seems the indecision must remain for the referendum seems estabilished in that stone i did not know exists. Fare-thee-well. Go with God.
 
tanakh

tanakh

Senior Member
#92
Dec 1, 2015
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#92
cv5 said:
It should have never happened to start with. Now the messy expensive divorce. Better to be rid of the EU demonic forces.....

The wise perceive and understand the many and varied symbols of this EU poster.
All of it wicked, all of it sinister, all of it Satanic.....

View attachment 198691
Click to expand...
We all know what happened at Babel!
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#94
Jul 2, 2011
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#94
Miri said:
Interesting figures - the UK was the
second largest net contributor at the
last EU budget. Net contributors are those who put in more money than they take out.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48256318
Click to expand...
? Why then is there any need for negotiating a British Exit from the EU if the UK has paid in more than it has taken out?????

Are you taking into consideration everything as regarding how much cash flowed in and how much flowed out?

There would be no hold over GB by the EÜ unless the UK owed something, or am I just being dumb?

There would be absolutely no need for any negotiation.
 
tanakh

tanakh

Senior Member
#95
Dec 1, 2015
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#95
I am reading a book titled The shocking History of the EU by Zina Cohen.

If its contents are true anyone who thinks EU membership is a good thing should seriously reconsider their position.
 
M

Miri

Guest
#96
#96
JaumeJ said:
? Why then is there any need for negotiating a British Exit from the EU if the UK has paid in more than it has taken out?????

Are you taking into consideration everything as regarding how much cash flowed in and how much flowed out?


There would be no hold over GB by the EÜ unless the UK owed something, or am I just being dumb?

There would be absolutely no need for any negotiation.
Click to expand...
The bit in bold, that’s what the net contributor figures mean, it’s a list of
which countries pay out the most verses what they get back. The top half
shows those who pay out more than they get back, the bottom figures are the
other way around.


The ideal of the EU, is equality. The richer countries pay more in, the poorer
countries take more out so that in theory everyone comes up to the same
standard. It’s why the poorer countries are clambering to get into the EU.
To bring them prosperity and a better standard of living etc.

The so called EU divorce bill has contractual elements, the EU budgets are
set in advance and the amounts each country pay etc. So in the case of the
UK, they are contracted to pay a certain amount regardless of whether they
stay or leave for whatever period they are contracted to do so.

Thing is, if the U.K. leave, then Germany who are the largest net contributor,
will suffer the most financially. As there will be an even bigger gap between
them and the next largest net contributor. Also it will mean less money
to filter down to the poorer countries.

In short, as far as finances go it can be argued the EU has communist tendencies
where supposedly all countries are equal, or that’s the aim, even down to a common
currency - the Euro . It’s never going to work out though.

The Common Market was suppose to make trading easier, it was never set up
to take over the countries. Unfortunately the EU has grown way above and
beyond it’s original purpose, to the point where over 70% of our legislation and
no doubt yours, is now dictated by the EU. Countries may think they govern
themselves but they don’t anymore, it’s all the EU.
 
M

Miri

Guest
#97
#97
JaumeJ said:
? Why then is there any need for negotiating a British Exit from the EU if the UK has paid in more than it has taken out?????

Are you taking into consideration everything as regarding how much cash flowed in and how much flowed out?

There would be no hold over GB by the EÜ unless the UK owed something, or am I just being dumb?

There would be absolutely no need for any negotiation.
Click to expand...

The negotions are also about trade between the UK and the EU.
The EU says if you want to trade with us then you still have to pay
us a lot of money and abide by our rulings and you can’t go it alone
and trade with other countries as we won’t allow it, we will do the trading.
etc. Kind of like the mafia.

The U.K. wants to be able to trade with other countries and ideally the EU.
That’s one of the sticking points the EU is saying it’s either trade with us and
no one else, or don’t trade with us and everyone else. It’s also what the
politicians are arguing about and can’t reach an agreement on. Plus the
Northern Ireland soft/hard border.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#98
Jul 2, 2011
21,230
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#98
Miri said:
The negotions are also about trade between the UK and the EU.
The EU says if you want to trade with us then you still have to pay
us a lot of money and abide by our rulings and you can’t go it alone
and trade with other countries as we won’t allow it, we will do the trading.
etc. Kind of like the mafia.

The U.K. wants to be able to trade with other countries and ideally the EU.
That’s one of the sticking points the EU is saying it’s either trade with us and
no one else, or don’t trade with us and everyone else. It’s also what the
politicians are arguing about and can’t reach an agreement on. Plus the
Northern Ireland soft/hard border.
Click to expand...
I suppose that is one way of looking at it. So many times I heard people talk about the EU as the European United States. Were this the case all of what you have said with your reasoning would be quite acceptable. It seems no one actually knows what they want.

As a US citizen residing here in Europe, I find the relations with the EU, as regarding economic practice, quite positive, and I have been afforded many rights I could never have dreamed of in th e US, for instance health care. I believe I should leave you with your thiniking. I will always prefer the UK in the EU as a full membr, not the half-way attitude as previous.
 
tanakh

tanakh

Senior Member
#99
Dec 1, 2015
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#99
JaumeJ said:
Because the government is a democracy, and because much doubt has been obvious since that democratic vote, there is democratic reason fro another vote. It is not written in stone, or is it?
Click to expand...
We could have democratic votes ad nauseum. Suppose we had another and the answer was still leave would we have another one?
The EU is far from democratic in fact according to some sources it was financed and inspired by the Nazis during and after WW2
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#100
Jul 2, 2011
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#100
You have a second vot due to the conflict caused by the first vot and the reconsicerations by both sides. This would be democratic. From outside the circle observers see confusion and a lot of back tracking on both sides. A second vot, just as it is inthe Word would be definitive.

Now I should never have entered into this political debate since it has proved to vex ass who touch it. Go bless you all, and my you come out of this delerious confusion unscathed.
 
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