These two losers?

Wow... can't argue with that (il)logic and (mis)use of Scripture.

JTB's right about one thing: There's only so far you can go in debates like this. What this serves is to hopefully persuade those on the fence.

Gift?

Actually, a lot of Christians are NOT involved, which is part of the problem. Is corruption in the church a problem? Oh yes. We are called to be salt, because salt keeps from rotting. But, the west is rotting because we've ceased to be salt. This is why I also pray for a new great awakening period within the church.

Oh Lord. The logic used here (and in your other posts) just makes me shake my head.

I've made my points. It's up to those on the fence to decide where they stand.

Show me where I said this. Show me where I implied it.

Well it's one's opinion if this is the misuse of scripture.

I'd like to see proof from the Bible that the early church were involved in the politics of the Roman empire and were trying to get the Romans to stop slavery and other abuses of the time.

And in the Great Commission, Jesus doesn't seem to be saying anything about getting involved in politics.

Maybe some are called to do that as their gifting. I am not, and it's obviously a waste of time to vote since so many in this nation have because socialists. This nation is pretty much done as we are sliding down hill fast in to complete socialism and Karl Marx said socialism is a stepping stone to communism.

This actually fits bible prophesy when tells us the one world government is coming along with it's leader the anti-christ

I think Christians should be about fulfilling the Great Commission but that's just me. If you believe you are called to get political then that's your deal then.

Philippians 2:8
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

It might be necessary to rename that one to “Mr. Trump goes to Fed Pen”.

I agree... In moderation. We shouldn't get all tore up about politics. It's a waste of high blood pressure.

But we should
Do good
Where we could

On the other hand, they were saying the same thing about "this fits bible prophecy" back in the 70s when it was so popular to rebel. In fact they've said it my whole life.

Shoot, in the party days of the late 20's I bet a lot of Christians were saying it. "All these hedonistic flappers burning their bras and doing all kinds of carnal things... It's a sign of the end times, I tell ya. Jesus probably gonna come back next week, the way things are going."

All I'm saying is, we shouldn't just throw up our hands and resign ourselves to riding out the last few days. We don't know if it'll be another four hundred years before Jesus returns. We should be taking SOME kind of interest in the world around us. You know... just in case Jesus doesn't come back next week.

lol only in order to appeal to the most wishful thinkers.

I addressed the point of christians in the Roman Empire already. It would not have been their place since Rome was a dictatorship used by God to keep Israel down, basically. Israel was under judgement, so no protesting would have helped. In fact, it might have just gotten them killed.

The great commission does not negate political involvement. In fact, the political world can be seen as a mission field, as there are plenty of politicians who need to know the Lord... not to mention a calling from God to enact Godly laws -- which protect and benefit your neighbor, and your descendants.

Christians did not fight in pre-Nazi Germany, and we know what happened. Giving up should never ever be the strategy of the Christian -- unless God orders us to stand down. Until that moment, every area of life we (collectively) should have our fingers in. If we are salt, then we are no good if we are not salting our world. That is not just to minister and make disciples, but in all things bring glory to God, including our secular jobs working for secular bosses, playing sports, driving, going to the movies, you name it.

Yep they should definitely have a choice on the ballot where we could vote "none of the above keep looking until you find a REAL candidate for POTUS"...Maybe that way in the long list of all the "first to serve" we would actually end up with a real president...

@Gojira , were you disagreeing? and if is, with what? or was the x just an expression of dislike. Symbols are just as difficult to understand than the written word.
There are many 'wishing' for this. But if wishes were... nvm, I forget how that saying goes.

I encountered news of Trump's acquittal of the Jan 6 insurrection trial. Was this a valid claim? I don't keep up with the news much.

No doubt about that!




God's Word addresses this:

2 Peter 3:3 - Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.



I'm talking about the Christians in the early church - and the Romans killed many of then anyway


Where did Jesus or His Apostles require Christians to be concerned about secular politics?



Communism is taking over the world now so should Christians buy a bunch of guns and ammo and start whacking communists? There's plenty of them around!



Where did He ever instruct Christians to take up arms and go kill people to make the world a better place?

i must have missed that in the New Testament.

The fact of the matter is, Christians spend more time being involved in politics than they do winning the lost and making disciples which is the calling of the Body of Christ.

In fact, if we were doing the great commission and correcting all the false doctrine - the Lord would do something about the politics! Since we are not, He is allowing us to have what Israel got back in the day, bad leaders!

Ancient Israel got in to false teachings and God let them go downhill and the same is happening to the US.

To whom much is given much is required - Luke 12:48

Ooh! Ooh! I know that one! Luke 22:35-38. Jesus tells his disciples "Look, remember how I sent you out with no defense to spread the gospel? Well the times are changing and now you'd better have a sword. In fact if you don't have a sword and can't get one, you'd better find something to sell so you CAN get a sword, even if it's selling off your coat."

Yeah, I've heard that one all my life too.

That was a cheap shot dude. I never said "Jesus is never coming back."

The early church WAS under the Roman Empire. Seriously??

I never said we should start shooting communists. You're reading into what I said. Do NOT put words into my mouth. Christians could have done much to counter the Nazi movement before it got so powerful.

The great commission does not take politics into account, no. However, the great commission is not the only command we are given. There are many aspects to life we are directed on in scripture. I've made my case about this, and I think you're not looking at Scripture correctly.

Anyway, you're welcome to the last word on this. I've got to agree with JTB on this. I engaged, I fired, I made my points, but with the likes of you, I need to keep making them. I also have to correct your marvelous misreading of what I wrote, and in my opinion, you've misused Scripture. Time to move on.

All I can say to believers like you is is that you had better wake up fast. History is not kind to such.

yes, and plot twist:

they're produced by the Spirit, not by us.

I guess my last thoughts on this will be these...

I've read unbelievable counter-arguments to my points that a) have shown what I believe is a misunderstanding of Scripture, b) have shown an inability to read what has been written without pushing meaning into it to validate their own views, and c) have shown that the side that believes politics is no place for the Christian does not really understand where the other side is coming from.

When they say that politics doesn't save, only Christ does, I say "You're right! And??" They think that we who care about the political realm are really hoping to bring Heaven to earth shows a tremendous lack of proper reasoning on their part. No one I've read in these threads has said that, I never said it, and I never implied it. And yet, this is still what they accuse us of. They do not comprehend what we are saying, which can be due to several causes, none of them flattering.

I'm sorry, but in light of all these errors, the side that says the Christian should not care about politics, all sides are equally bad, they're all sinners and therefore none deserve our support, have clearly not thought their positions all the way through. Rather embarrassing. And, dangerous.

However, as a small concession, there is something to be said for the fact that politics / national pride can become an idol. We are not to be so heavenly-minded that we're no earthly good, JTB, Stan, etc... But, we should not be so concerned about worldly matters that we lose sight of the spiritual and eternal. We all need to seek God for the proper balance.