why every american should stand and Honor the Flag

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Jun 1, 2016
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#21
Even disabled persons in wheelchairs? :confused:

lol yeah oi suppose if a person is unable to stand, they can salute or something. and many vets in wheelchairs are one of the reasons others should Honor it. Kind of a silly thing, but sure you got me people unable to stand exempt.
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#22
how many who call themselves 'Christians', KNEEL DOWN to Him/Jesus Christ',
spiritually and physically, first and fore most???

this is a 'personal TEST', for He already KNOWS all who truly serve Him from their hearts,
even before they were given 'life on earth'...


amen and even those who dont believe there is a jesus, will One day Kneel before Him.
 
G

Galatea

Guest
#23
The flag is not sacred, neither is the anthem, neither is our government, neither is our country. As citizens of the United States, we have the right NOT to be patriotic if we wish. It is not disrespecting the Constitution, it is actually invoking the Constitution to protest when one feels the government has gone awry. I kind of think it is a beautiful thing, democracy in action.

You have the right to stand for the pledge and the anthem, others have the right not to stand.

During the Vietnam War, many people protested the pointless war. At the time, the protesters were considered unAmerican, but history has proven that the protesters were in the right- to not go blindly off into a senseless war for patriotism’s sake.

I wonder fifty years from now, what people will think about the players’ protests?

Sometimes I wonder if people are annoyed that football players might have a social conscience and that there is something more important than football, money, and putting on a facade that everything is hunky dory in ‘Murica.
 
G

Galatea

Guest
#24
Soldiers fight for numerous different reasons, and they all have different opinions on what people should do with the flag. Some soldiers believe the flag should be respected, honored, and even praised. Others believe the flag is a symbol that doesn't demand respect, taking no offense to those who don't respect the flag.

The American flag is a symbol that represents many different things. It represents America, but that's quite broad. It can represent American civilians, American athletes, American soldiers, the American government, etc.. Some people view the flag as a symbol of the government, and oppose the flag for that reason. The American anthem is about the flag enduring war, so it is related to the soldiers who fought and died for the flag, but refusing to honor the flag does not necessarily mean someone doesn't honor the soldiers who died for the flag. To suggest that there are only only specific ways in which the flag can be honored is narrow minded.

Many people who stand for the anthem do so only so they are not scrutinized for sitting, which means they aren't being sincere when they do stand. If a person isn't being sincere, then they may as well not stand at all. But are these people disrespectful? Not necessarily. Many people would rather keep their respect to the soldiers who died for them private. Standing to honor the flag, to some people, is flashy and they'd prefer to honor soldiers by thanking them personally instead.



You mean places where honoring the flag is mandatory and showing disrespect for the flag is treason that can land you in prison?

I would never burn the American flag as a sign of protest. That is, I wouldn't unless the American government made a law making it illegal to burn the flag. Any government that can't give their citizens the freedom to disrespect the flag does not deserve to have their flag respected. I can only respect the flags of nations that allow flag burning, because THAT is the level of freedom I demand. It's not because I condone flag burning, but because I support an incredibly high level of freedom - even if it means other people can do things I disagree with.

Remember, respect is about intent. Those people kneeling, they aren't trying to disrespect soldiers, they're trying to send a message about the government. If you want to say their actions are disrespectful, then that's your opinion. Since they're the ones kneeling, one has to acknowledge their reasons for kneeling, not your reason for wanting them not to kneel. If you hang up a flag in your yard, you're the one who gets to dictate the meaning of your flag. If someone calls you a fascist who supports everything the government does, you can say to them, "No, I wave this flag because I love the troops who died for it and I support the freedoms America promises, not the freedoms our government is taking away."
Your posts are eloquent and well mannered. I concur with everything you have written on this thread. Thanks very much for posting.
 

slave

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2015
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#25
So what’s the big deal? It makes people feel good to stir up patriotic pride, so why not wave the flag a bit and honor the courage, conviction, and sacrifice of those who have been willing to serve a greater good? Why not pump up the pride we have in our country? Why not give some glory to Old Glory?

Well, therein lies the problem, doesn’t it? To whom (or what) is glory due? The answer, of course, is God and God alone. To give glory to country is idolatry. To weave faith into nationalism is heresy.

Conservative Christians rightly resist religious syncretism (mixing Christianity with aspects of another religion in order to make our faith more palatable to those who are sympathetic to the other religion and who don’t wish to fully let go of it), but we fail to see that equal and greater harm comes from the syncretism of (Christianity - and - nationalism). As Christians, we resist nationalism in all forms, especially those forms that would hijack the story of God’s activity in the world, that would synthesize national identity with His hopes and plans for creating, saving, and sustaining all peoples of the earth.

Many Christians in the world today feel repugnance when they see our flag or other symbols of our national pride and exceptionalism. This doesn’t mean we should be ashamed of our country or deny our citizenship – to the contrary, we should appreciate our country and strive to make it a force for good in the world. But we should not hold up America as a Christian nation and we should not pollute the worship of our Lord with fervor, faith or devotion to our nation (or any nation).

When we choose Christ without hesitation, we make no room for mixed motives and refuse to share God’s glory with any other person or institution – no matter how good, noble, or sentimental.
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#26
So what’s the big deal? It makes people feel good to stir up patriotic pride, so why not wave the flag a bit and honor the courage, conviction, and sacrifice of those who have been willing to serve a greater good? Why not pump up the pride we have in our country? Why not give some glory to Old Glory?

Well, therein lies the problem, doesn’t it? To whom (or what) is glory due? The answer, of course, is God and God alone. To give glory to country is idolatry. To weave faith into nationalism is heresy.

Conservative Christians rightly resist religious syncretism (mixing Christianity with aspects of another religion in order to make our faith more palatable to those who are sympathetic to the other religion and who don’t wish to fully let go of it), but we fail to see that equal and greater harm comes from the syncretism of (Christianity - and - nationalism). As Christians, we resist nationalism in all forms, especially those forms that would hijack the story of God’s activity in the world, that would synthesize national identity with His hopes and plans for creating, saving, and sustaining all peoples of the earth.

Many Christians in the world today feel repugnance when they see our flag or other symbols of our national pride and exceptionalism. This doesn’t mean we should be ashamed of our country or deny our citizenship – to the contrary, we should appreciate our country and strive to make it a force for good in the world. But we should not hold up America as a Christian nation and we should not pollute the worship of our Lord with fervor, faith or devotion to our nation (or any nation).

When we choose Christ without hesitation, we make no room for mixed motives and refuse to share God’s glory with any other person or institution – no matter how good, noble, or sentimental.


this country is built upon Godly principles, the constitution written By Men of Godly principle, theres a reason america thrived and was so blessed for so Long. Theres nothing heretical About Hinoring those who have Guiven thier Lives for those who Live in and Make up thois country. in fact Jesus says its the greatest Love of all to lay down your Life for others.


Point remains the same, the flag isnt an idol or something lol it represents something very Important, Hundreds of thousands of men and Women, who did infact give thier Lives in defence of this country and its constitution. Men died on american soil to end oppressions like slavery, because to break yokes or the oppressed is a biblical principle that those americans Held dear. and standing to honor the flag that symbolizes those men and women is the proper thing to do always Has been and will be.


even if One in 5 didnt lay thier Lives down because of Love of those Good and Godly principles, many others did for that very purpose. it will always remain offensive to me, because of what that flag means to so many who have fallen, and saw thier Loved Oned coffin draped in that american flag that stands for those Godly principles america was founded upon.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#27
It's about respect for the men who fought and died for our freedom and our roots. America is not perfect, but where is perfect on this fallen earth?
It's just silly to live in a country and enjoy it's freedom while disrespecting what sybolizes that freedom, and for what? A bunch of unfounded BLM nonsense?
Here is something to ponder about the BLM movement.

 
Z

Zi

Guest
#28
For AA to say this is one thing, anyone else it's another.
Same as using the n word.

To the OP, equality? Most don't live equally. Nobody should have to stand or jump hoops in order to not offend a mother or widow etc. Those who join, join knowing not all will but do so because they do care. That's enough for them.
I have a long history of family in the military. My brother is currently in. We lost a dear member of our community in Iraq to a straight shot to the head. I thank vets when I see them. I wear Army apparel maybe 3 times a week.
But I do not think everyone has to. Or are so disrespectful if they don't ever say thank you or salute.

Some have had a war they've fought here since being brought here. I think it is disrespectful to assume and ask them to shut up, and be grateful. Grateful? For what? For being allowed to be poor and left to self defend? Unless you're black, I don't think you have a right to speak on BLM.. that's for all who have already here...

I'm not AA but half my family is. I've seen them have trustworthy bank accounts, work for years and be denied for loans others can get. I've been in vehicles, neighborhoods with them. Followed in stores.
When I'm with anyone else, the pressure is not the same. They are people too.. whites who discuss something they can't identify with as if it's trivial, is disgusting

Here is something to ponder about the BLM movement.

 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
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#29
there all kinds of disgusting things in this world that we can't do a thing about -
we all have to seek our peace about such things that bother and grieve us,
and this can only be given to us by Jesus Christ,
The Saviour of all people'...
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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#30
I personally do not understand American pride, because that is what it is. When you look at North Korea and the way it brings up it's citizens, it is not so different. Hitler's Youth, same thing. They use the past as a way to reinforce patriotism and exceptionalism. And they teach these things from a very young age, because that is when childrens' minds are developing.

And yes America is a more developed (or just rich) country, but I find the overt patriotism and exceptionalism somewhat crazy.

We live in one world, all people born equal under God. No country is better, no country sets the only example. Do you also honor the Russians who put down their lives to end WW2? Probably not.

But I get it, it's nice having something to believe in, with some kind of theatre to it, some kind of ritual. A bit like in Britain you have the Queen and the royal family. Although I don't really know anyone who is crazy about it except from other countries. I think less patriotism is a good thing.

You make it sound so fairytale, which is just how these things are taught as children. It's so wonderful and magical, you know such horrible monsters of the past overcome and vanquished, little do children know that they will grow up to regard their country as better than all countries. So when some news about Russia comes along, or North Korea, lo and behold the public say 'they are the enemy' 'bomb them to hell' 'NATO must take action'. This gives little regard for all the civilians deaths America is responsible for, and yet, this will just be some magical collateral of a greater cause. No, it's human life, like me and you.

Who caused the great depression that lead to WW2? Sometimes I wonder, was the outcome foreseen, and therefore intentional? Weapons make a lot of money, some men would kill for the money it makes, and have little regard for human life, including for the cannon fodder who are propagandised into believing they are fighting for good, fighting for justice, fighting for world peace. But of course, soldiers don't kill do they? Soldiers who are human beings don't get PTSD from such a thing, do they? To me, America seems to be at the centre of the lack of peace in the world. But then I get it, new weapons need testing grounds. That's not so far from the truth if you think deeply about it.

While North Korea tests it's nukes, America would love to test its nukes on North Korea (you know, people dying kind of test).

From my personal experience, most citizens, of most countries, have some pride in their homeland.

This seems to be a normal thing for humans.


I'm sure if we all started railing on your country, you'd feel quite insulted.... so... there you go.


Who has the right or ability to measure this?
Can this sort of thing ever get out of hand?
Sure.
But I'm not exactly sure how we should measure "pride in your homeland", and if we COULD measure it, then who exactly has the right to determine how much pride in your homeland is "too much"?
Just who precisely has the right, or ability, to make such a measurement and render such a verdict about the measurement?


Bad argument:
I don't think this is an argument you want to venture into...because first of all, you have zero epistemological basis for anything you're going to say, and second, you're going to end up mired in your own hypocrisy for loving your own homeland.
This isn't a debate you want to get into.
It isn't going to go well.
 
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Innerfire89

Senior Member
Aug 23, 2017
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#31
The truth is the truth though. Blacks are killed more often by other blacks and abortion clinics than the police. If they're going riot because they believe black lives matter than they ought to act like it themselves.

They should thankful they could go to school and play football makinging ridiculous amounts of money. They should be thankful for the men who fought to end. salvary.

What can't whites identify with? I grew up poor, in a run down trailer park, my parents got pulled over all the time because of the neighborhood having a drug house on every block. Probably the same reason they get pulled over.
I can't how many times I've been called cracker or honkey, and was bullied by blacks growing up because of the colour of my skin, or how many times I had to hear about making more money at a job because I was white, I worked my butt off and came to work everyday, maybe if my accusers did the same they'd make more money.

If it's wrong for a white man to speak out against BLM, than it's wrong to speake out against rioting, robbery, and vandalism as well.

No one even gave the hint that the lives of other human beings was trivial, but if you take a look at BLM it's seems they do.

If BLM really cared about black lives they would stand up against abortion, gang violence, drug abuse, and the poisionus rap music that praises all I those things.
They should stop with the gangster nonsense and maybe people wouldn't be scared of the colour of their skin. Is that fair that they're judged by skin colour? No. But it's pretty darn understandable.
 

Susanna

Senior Member
Jan 21, 2013
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#32
From my personal experience, most citizens, of most countries, have some pride in their homeland.

This seems to be a normal thing for humans.


I'm sure if we all started railing on your country, you'd feel quite insulted.... so... there you go.


Who has the right or ability to measure this?
Can this sort of thing ever get out of hand?
Sure.
But I'm not exactly sure how we should measure "pride in your homeland", and if we COULD measure it, then who exactly has the right to determine how much pride in your homeland is "too much"?
Just who precisely has the right, or ability, to make such a measurement and render such a verdict about the measurement?


Bad argument:
I don't think this is an argument you want to venture into...because first of all, you have zero epistemological basis for anything you're going to say, and second, you're going to end up mired in your own hypocrisy for loving your own homeland.
This isn't a debate you want to get into.
It isn't going to go well.
The only homeland to have pride in is Texas. Haha.
 

Innerfire89

Senior Member
Aug 23, 2017
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#33
I won't even list BLM's list of demands here because of the profanity.
ANTIFA, BLM, feminist, pro choicers, The KKK, are all of the basket of rotten apples.
 

Susanna

Senior Member
Jan 21, 2013
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#34
I won't even list BLM's list of demands here because of the profanity.
ANTIFA, BLM, feminist, pro choicers, The KKK, are all of the basket of rotten apples.
What they got to do with the American flag?
 
Feb 5, 2017
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#37
American Pride is about becoming a sheep and a slave to a system. It's no different from every other country or empire that uses the same tactics, teaching you this when you are a child. You grow up with some huge pride in your amazing country, and allow it to do whatever it wants in the world, because it CAN do what it wants, its the 'greatest' country on earth of course. Kill innocent people when you take out the bad guys? Of course, as long as they are not American it's ok!

It's really weird and bizarre how some American's defend 'their country' and 'their flag'. It just seems a bit robotic, with no spiritual basis, just a material one. They are God-neutered when they are a child, and then think that they know more about God than everyone else when they are older! No wonder 70% of Americans take at least one prescription drug. I guess God can't cure everything. Wait there... it must have been God that advised them to take meds. Yes there is a spiritual answer to everything, so of course that must be it. America, the land of having an answer for everything, and being right about everything. What a dream!

All the best military arsenal on the planet and you can't even take out ISIS, and you let your weapons fall into their hands (by accident?). The Russians come along, and actually SAVE people, innocent Syrian people. I'm so glad the Russians intervened, and all you can do is rebuke them. Rebuke them while they try to get rid of ISIS.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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#38
mj006i,

Thank you for not answering any of my specific objections to your previous post.

It verifies you have no objective argument... you're just bashing a country you don't happen to like.




Thanks for clearing that up.
 
Feb 5, 2017
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#39
Sorry I didn't see your previous post.

From my personal experience, most citizens, of most countries, have some pride in their homeland.
You mean this is justification for American pride which is more rampant than most countries, except for Tyrannical ones.

This seems to be a normal thing for humans.
A continuation of justification.

I'm sure if we all started railing on your country, you'd feel quite insulted.... so... there you go.
Not at all, you can bash my country all you want.


Who has the right or ability to measure this?
Can this sort of thing ever get out of hand?
Sure.
But I'm not exactly sure how we should measure "pride in your homeland", and if we COULD measure it, then who exactly has the right to determine how much pride in your homeland is "too much"?
Just who precisely has the right, or ability, to make such a measurement and render such a verdict about the measurement?
It's pretty obvious to a lot of people, except Americans who are desensitized to it and see their way as normal. I get it, that is your normal, but to other countries it is abnormal.

Bad argument:
I don't think this is an argument you want to venture into...because first of all, you have zero epistemological basis for anything you're going to say, and second, you're going to end up mired in your own hypocrisy for loving your own homeland.
This isn't a debate you want to get into.
Nothing is about pride for my homeland. It is more about pride in general.

It isn't going to go well.
 

Yeraza_Bats

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
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#40
mj006i,

Thank you for not answering any of my specific objections to your previous post.

It verifies you have no objective argument... you're just bashing a country you don't happen to like.




Thanks for clearing that up.
It seems to be his only reason for being here.