GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
You keep saying things like this and then completely failing to back them up with any evidence whatsoever.

That's called "slander"

The rest of what you wrote in no way at all corroborates the defamation of character you opened up your post with; it's wholly unrelated to the libelous & malicious personal attack you made. ((again))

Why do you keep doing this?

It is not slander if it's true.



Levites aren't Israelites??

You're weird.
LOL, What? You have just made a libelous & malicious personal attack on me for telling you the truth about Lev. 18.

LOL, That's OK, I forgive you.


BTW, The God of the Bible gave Levites "laws" that the Israelites were not allowed to follow. Just because you don't believe in these truths, doesn't make them not true.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
Yeah they just "leave" with the Israelites to nearly every destination,and are ordained priests by God in the bible with no ties to "Israel" lol.
No ties to Israel? No sure where you picked that up.. They were directly tied to Israel as I have always said. They just were given separate instructions and laws. It's in your Bible.

30 And thou shalt anoint Aaron and his sons, and consecrate them, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office.
31 And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, This shall be an holy anointing oil unto me throughout your generations.

32 Upon man's flesh shall it not be poured, neither shall ye make any other like it, after the composition of it: it is holy, and it shall be holy unto you.

33 Whosoever compoundeth any like it, or whosoever putteth any of it upon a stranger, shall even be cut off from his people.

I didn't write the Holy Bible, I just believe what it says. If you and Post want to ignore the difference between the Priesthood and the Children of Israel, you are free to do so. But just because you don't believe, doesn't make the Word of God Void or not true, IMO.

Ex. 40:12 And thou shalt bring Aaron and his sons unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and wash them with water.
13 And thou shalt put upon Aaron the holy garments, and anoint him, and sanctify him; that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.

14 And thou shalt bring his sons, and clothe them with coats:

15 And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office: for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations.

God didn't consider them the same as Israel. Moses didn't consider them the same as Israel, Jesus didn't consider them the same as Israel, Paul didn't consider them the same as Israel.

So neither do I. If you do not make the distinction then you are in opposition to the Word which became Flesh, not me.

Lev. 6:8 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
9 Command Aaron and his sons, saying, This is the law of the burnt offering: It is the burnt offering, because of the burning upon the altar all night unto the morning, and the fire of the altar shall be burning in it.

Was this "law of Works" for the Children of Israel to perform, or only for the Levites?

14 And this is the law of the meat offering: the sons of Aaron shall offer it before the LORD, before the altar.
15 And he shall take of it his handful, of the flour of the meat offering, and of the oil thereof, and all the frankincense which is upon the meat offering, and shall burn it upon the altar for a sweet savour, even the memorial of it, unto the LORD.

Was this "Law of works" for the Children of Israel, or just for the Levites?

It would be great if one of you would actually engage in the topic at hand and answer a question posed to you.
 

ELOHIMLOGOS

Junior Member
Mar 27, 2018
12
6
3
Yep David repent, the point is: David sin after he was believer, not before. Back to the question, do we never sin after become believer?
It is not God's will that we sin but there is things we know about that are sin and as we grown in grace God reveals more and more things in our lives that are sin that we need to repent of. This is called sanctification. It is a work of a lifetime

John 2:1,
My little children, these things write I unto you, that you sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous

Acts 17:30-31, And the times of this ignorance God overlooked; but now commands all men everywhere to repent: Because he has appointed a day, in which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he has ordained; and of this he has given assurance unto all men, in that he has raised him from the dead.

1 Peter 2:2, As newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby

2 Peter 3:18, But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever. Amen

It is not God's will that we sin. If you parctice sinning you will not be in God's kingdom.

.
 
J

joefizz

Guest
No ties to Israel? No sure where you picked that up.. They were directly tied to Israel as I have always said. They just were given separate instructions and laws. It's in your Bible.

30 And thou shalt anoint Aaron and his sons, and consecrate them, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office.
31 And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, This shall be an holy anointing oil unto me throughout your generations.

32 Upon man's flesh shall it not be poured, neither shall ye make any other like it, after the composition of it: it is holy, and it shall be holy unto you.

33 Whosoever compoundeth any like it, or whosoever putteth any of it upon a stranger, shall even be cut off from his people.

I didn't write the Holy Bible, I just believe what it says. If you and Post want to ignore the difference between the Priesthood and the Children of Israel, you are free to do so. But just because you don't believe, doesn't make the Word of God Void or not true, IMO.

Ex. 40:12 And thou shalt bring Aaron and his sons unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and wash them with water.
13 And thou shalt put upon Aaron the holy garments, and anoint him, and sanctify him; that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.

14 And thou shalt bring his sons, and clothe them with coats:

15 And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office: for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations.

God didn't consider them the same as Israel. Moses didn't consider them the same as Israel, Jesus didn't consider them the same as Israel, Paul didn't consider them the same as Israel.

So neither do I. If you do not make the distinction then you are in opposition to the Word which became Flesh, not me.

Lev. 6:8 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
9 Command Aaron and his sons, saying, This is the law of the burnt offering: It is the burnt offering, because of the burning upon the altar all night unto the morning, and the fire of the altar shall be burning in it.

Was this "law of Works" for the Children of Israel to perform, or only for the Levites?

14 And this is the law of the meat offering: the sons of Aaron shall offer it before the LORD, before the altar.
15 And he shall take of it his handful, of the flour of the meat offering, and of the oil thereof, and all the frankincense which is upon the meat offering, and shall burn it upon the altar for a sweet savour, even the memorial of it, unto the LORD.

Was this "Law of works" for the Children of Israel, or just for the Levites?

It would be great if one of you would actually engage in the topic at hand and answer a question posed to you.
I was being sarcastic lol!
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,926
13,607
113
It is not slander if it's true.





LOL, What? You have just made a libelous & malicious personal attack on me for telling you the truth about Lev. 18.

LOL, That's OK, I forgive you.


BTW, The God of the Bible gave Levites "laws" that the Israelites were not allowed to follow. Just because you don't believe in these truths, doesn't make them not true.
You said the law Paul is talking about in Romans 10 that 'if you do, you will live' is strictly the Levitical sacrificial system, which you say is 'law of works' while the rest of the Mosaic Law is 'law of faith' - because you insist on breaking the law into pieces.

But I quoted Leviticus - which Paul refers to in Romans 10 specifically, and Nehemiah does too, demonstrating that it's not sacrificial laws he's talking about ((granting foe the sake of argument the absurd premise of yours that Moses Law is broken into parts, 2 or more laws, not one law))

So you said it's not talking about Levitical laws. As though Levites aren't Israelites. That's weird.

It's weird for a number of reasons, one of which is that even if you're right about that, Paul is contrasting what you call 'law of faith parts' with Christ - which contradicts your whole doctrine of that being the part of the Law Christians are under.
It's weird because your celebrating contradicting yourself, as though spreading confusion is some kind of victory.

It's weird because you're presenting yourself like you're a great Christian teacher but you're slandering all kinds of people and sowing confusion about the scriptures, and acting like that's means you 'win' somehow.

That's not slanderous to say you're weird. It's verifiable - and hey, aren't you always bragging about how non-mainstream your doctrines are? So 'weird' is what you're proud of, dude.

Butcha just have to be contrary to whatever the people you despise say, even when they tell you the truth, doncha? That can get you in trouble, man. The truth is way more important than some petty little war anyone thinks they are engaged in.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
Pretty sure Ben has never in his life said such a thing.

God hates lies.
Ben, although I have never met him, seems to a gracious and gentle person. But he has been misled regarding some of the Bibles teaching, IMO. No shame in that, we have all been misled at some point.

Nehemiah is a story about men who have been led astray and sent a Prophet by God which they didn't kill, but set their mind to listen too.. I believe it is a mistake to preach that Nehemiah directed these men to follow instructions which were created to prove that men can't follow God's instructions. Men follow rules all the time, every day, hundreds and hundreds of them and do so to stay out of jail. I believe it is the Holy and Spiritual nature of God's Laws that men, who are naturally wicked according to the Bible, oppose, not the actual Commandment. Paul suggests the same thing.

Ben is a big boy, I'm sure he can speak for himself.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
It is not God's will that we sin but there is things we know about that are sin and as we grown in grace God reveals more and more things in our lives that are sin that we need to repent of. This is called sanctification. It is a work of a lifetime

John 2:1,
My little children, these things write I unto you, that you sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous

Acts 17:30-31, And the times of this ignorance God overlooked; but now commands all men everywhere to repent: Because he has appointed a day, in which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he has ordained; and of this he has given assurance unto all men, in that he has raised him from the dead.

1 Peter 2:2, As newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby

2 Peter 3:18, But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever. Amen

It is not God's will that we sin. If you parctice sinning you will not be in God's kingdom.

.
Yep God will we are to be holy, but we always fail, repent and back sin.

We are not perfect, till we are in heaven.

David is our senior in faith, yet he kill Uriah and committed adultery with his wife. It not an excuse to sin, but an example that human is not perfect.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,926
13,607
113
the Law leads men to Christ showing their inadequacy to fulfill its demands.
if you don't mind, Ben ... :)

For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come from the Law.
(Galatians 3:21)
The Law, however, is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The one who does these things will live by them.”
(Galatians 3:12, quoting Leviticus 18:5)

to substantiate what Ben wrote, simply put these two things together: the Law ((singular)) says do these things and you will live. the scripture says the Law could not impart life. if i could do the things in the Law, the Law would impart life, but it cannot, therefore i can't do the things in the Law. i can make a show of it - the outside of the cup - but if i think by doing so i'm really keeping it, i've got a low view of the Law; i'm judging myself superficially. see the sermon on the mount, e.g. the true keeping of the Law is in the heart, and the heart of men.. well we know how that is.

this doesn't make God unjust - see for example the argument of Romans 5:20, 7:7-25 etc.
He is perfect, and what He has done is perfect - life and salvation are found nowhere but in Him. He is the One who is able to create in us a new heart, and He is the One who works and wills in us. if anything good comes out of me, it's Him, not me, that lives and wills and does.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,926
13,607
113
The Law, however, is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The one who does these things will live by them.”
(Galatians 3:12, quoting Leviticus 18:5)
seems clear to me that this verse blows up the idea that 'an edited part of the Law' is what the scripture calls "a law of faith" ((re: Romans 3:27)) btw.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,926
13,607
113
Was this "Law of works" for the Children of Israel, or just for the Levites?
If you see your fellow Israelite’s ox or sheep straying, do not ignore it but be sure to take it back to its owner. If they do not live near you or if you do not know who owns it, take it home with you and keep it until they come looking for it. Then give it back. Do the same if you find their donkey or cloak or anything else they have lost. Do not ignore it.
If you see your fellow Israelite’s donkey or ox fallen on the road, do not ignore it. Help the owner get it to its feet.
(Deuteronomy 22:1-4)
it sure sounds like 'work' to me to stable & care for an ox for an indeterminate amount of time, or to help someone right an oxcart that's tipped over on the side of the road. none of what's described here goes under the category of "believe this" -- it's all "do these works." and i don't see anything about any particular tribe being exempt??

i do see a beautiful image of Christ in these commands though -- this testifies of Him, what He does for each one who puts their trust in Him. i lost my spiritual ass, and He rescued it for me. i was wrecked in a ditch, and He pulled me out and set my ass straight on the road.
He is Beautiful ♥♥♥

'course if all i thought about was material, physical, earthly things, i'd never see this as a shadow of Him. i'd just see a list of do's and don'ts to subject my flesh to. ((which isn't saying these are bad things to do: it's saying that the point isn't the flesh. the point is Christ :)))
i believe we need to look at the sabbath the same way, spiritually, or it's not going to do us any good. ritual isn't righteousness. and that doesn't mean it's wrong or bad to keep it in the flesh ((no matter what my accusers say i say)) -- it means it's not the point. the point is Christ. the command is remember the sabbath. remember that God finished His work. remember that He saw that it is very good. remember that it is finished. :D


i figure if we spoke like this - about spiritual things, about Christ first and foremost and always - we'd be edified.
it looks like to me that when conversations and outlooks are confined to earthly, fleshly things, all we get is confusion and all kinds of evil, petty argument, which doesn't do anyone good, but puffs up and destroys.
that's what i'd like to do; it's what i believe is right. i apologize for every time i let myself get dragged into such fruitless, meaningless talk. i still live in this tent, like y'all do too. an observation, not an excuse.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,926
13,607
113
Yep God will we are to be holy, but we always fail, repent and back sin.

We are not perfect, till we are in heaven.
God's will is also that we walk humbly before Him, believing that He alone is salvation :)

reckon that has anything to do with 'the human condition' ?
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,974
113
ask yourselves,

'where's the Holy unity' that our Creator expects???
ask yourselves again...but, keep seeking...
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

...

This is the Lord I believe. He has Laws and requirements. Any other Lord is a imposter, IMO.
You witness that you are following Moses, and are calling Jesus an imposter, for he has shown clearly how thou mayest do it (that is, the word of faith).

But what does it say? “The word is near to you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim), that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation. Romans 10:8-10
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
ask yourselves,

'where's the Holy unity' that our Creator expects???
ask yourselves again...but, keep seeking...
There can't be unity amidst heresies.

For indeed it is necessary that there be heresies among you, in order that those who are approved may become evident among you. 1 Corinthians 11:19
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113


This all sounds real good Post. But man's religion is a filthy rag, useless, "vain deceit", "Rudiments of the World", if the Word doesn't support it. It might sound real good to man, but if man's religion contains teachings that are not true then there is a problem. The serpent also said some things which were true, mixed with things that are not true to deceive the first "Son of God". And we have been warned ever since to "Beware" to "Take Heed" we are not deceived by it.

This mixing of truth and lies does not make the lie a truth, rather, the lie infects the truth defiles the truth, corrupts the truth. Jesus said these things come from within and defile a man. This is why it is said "A little leaven leavens the whole lump". A little piss in a glass of pure water corrupts the entire glass of water. If I have a glass of piss, and I drop some drops of pure water in it, it does not purify the piss. This also is Spiritually discerned in the mixing of fabrics, our covering, and so on. But I digress.

This teaching things that are not true is the focus of my posts on this Bible discussion forum because I understand these things, and not just me, but others as well..

Many teach that Jesus, the Word which became Flesh, the Holy Christ, teaches differently than the Word which became Flesh.

This is a falsehood.

Man teaches this to divide Jesus from the Word. This is popular teaching for those, who come in Christ's Name, who call God's Commandments a burden on man kind, something the Bible never teaches.

It is also important to note that the serpent did the same thing to divide and separate Eve from God's Instructions. Jesus made it abundantly clear that Him and the Word which became Flesh are ONE God. There are many who work to erode this truth. This truth destroys a lot of Doctrines taught in the mainstream teaching of today, IMO.

The Commandments to help a brother you posted who is having trouble, is teaching us how to Love our Neighbor. It is a rule that has a Spiritual meaning, but like James said, it takes more than "words" to abide by the Spiritual intend of most of God's Commandments. If I see a Brother, who is snared, or has been convinced of something that isn't true, I should do more that just say "Good Luck". I should show him what the Word of God says. If he is "naked and destitute" (No covering, snared by satan to do it's will) I should not stand by and do nothing. I believe in the Word which declared these things in the Gospel of Christ all these centuries ago. And they are more important today than ever, IMO.

It is a commandment to Love God and Love your Neighbor. True Love only comes from the heart, true Love can only be Spiritual.

There is no way to know how to Love your Neighbor, if you don't first Love God. When you Love God, you listen to Him and you do as He says. When this happens He imparts His Spirit in our mind and we can receive the rest of His instructions. This is called "Choosing Life" in Duet 30. The Word which became Flesh says the same thing as a Man in this way:

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

And again;

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.


So the mainstream religion of Christ's time didn't trust the God of Abraham, so they created their own religion with their own High Days and their own images of God and they omitted the "weightier matters of His Law". Jesus said "these you should have done, and not left the other undone".

But today many, who come in Christ's name, teaches that these rules are not to be relied on for anything, not instruction in Righteousness as it is written, not reproof, not anything. I believe this teaching is what Jesus warned about so many times, both as the Word, and as the Word which became Flesh.

13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

My knowledge doesn't come from preachers from the religions of this land, but from following the Christ's instruction on how to receive the truth. I don't believe there is any other way.

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

It is the Law and Prophets which tell what Faith is, and all the righteous examples of it. I believe a man should follow the examples which were written for our admonition, not preach that they are obsolete and thrown out with the Levitical Priesthood and their "Works of the Law" for remission of sins. I think this teaching is a huge deception which has snared a great deal of people, including me years ago.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

What scriptures did Jesus and Paul have? What Scriptures did Paul say He believed in? Shall I reject, omit, or ignore them because religious man says so?

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Isn't this the Goal? Why would Jesus help us if we reject the very Word He created for us? That is what the Pharisees did.

I too am bewildered that I let myself be drawn into useless disputes about God's Laws. All this knowledge is given by God. He grants repentance. He blocks understanding. He has Mercy on those who Love Him and Keep His Commandments and has shown this to every person on this forum.

Why should I submit myself to my emotions.

I am learning and growing in this knowledge thanks to the tender mercies of the Great Messiah, the Word which became Flesh, who purchased me with His Own Blood.