Not By Works

You still fail to see that it is CHRIST that GIVES FAITH, FINISHES FAITH and COMPLETES FAITH and your view makes JESUS into a inept liar that CANNOT finish what HE STARTED.....the second paragraph is nothing more than a straw man argument based upon ignorance....MISTHOS is wages and or reward PAID for faithful service and out of the SPIRITUAL LOVE that GD deals to believers they are MOTIVATED to serve and EARN MISTHOS......

Thank you for your civil tone.

It is just that the ONE biblical door into the kingdom for me is a different door. We will always disagree on that door. Like I have said, you or I would have a hard time getting a coalition of like-minded Christians to see the exact same door into the kingdom. You probably pegged it right that about 90% would disagree with you and me both.

I will always disagree that Christ gives everything and we do nothing, but wait for eternal life to fall upon us.

I know I have probably mistated that concept, but tell me what is our responsibility to be saved?

Eternal life does not fall on anyone....it is given immediately upon faith.....was saved, am saved and continuing to be saved into the future....our respone is to respond in faith.....

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to SAVE THEM THAT BELIEVE <---THIS IS WHAT YOU MISS.....

Romans 3:3-4,19,27-31 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.

Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith APART
from observing the law. Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, WE
UPHOLD THE LAW.

Romans 9:4-5 the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.

Ephesians 2:11-22 One in Christ Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (that done in the body by the hands of men)— remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God’s people and members of God’s household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

Romans 11:25-32 All Israel Will Be Saved I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

New International Version 1984 Numbers 18:19-24 Whatever is set aside from the holy offerings the Israelites present to the Lord I give to you and your sons and daughters as your regular share. IT IS AN EVERLASTING COVENANT of salt before the Lord for both you and your offspring.” The Lord said to Aaron, “You will have no inheritance in their land, nor will you have any share among them; I am your share and your inheritance among the Israelites. “I give to the Levites all the tithes in Israel as their inheritance in return for the work they do while serving at the Tent of Meeting. From now on the Israelites must not go near the Tent of Meeting, or they will bear the consequences of their sin and will die. It is the Levites who are to do the work at the Tent of Meeting and bear the responsibility for offenses against it. This is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. They will receive no inheritance among the Israelites. Instead, I give to the Levites as their inheritance the tithes that the Israelites present as an offering to the Lord. That is why I said concerning them: ‘They will have no inheritance among the Israelites.’”


ALMOST ALL IF NOT ALL OF THE PROTESTANTS AND OTHER CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS AROUND THE WORLD ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO TEACH OSAS AND THAT FAITH ALONE SAVES VOID OF ANY SORT OF WORKS, COLLECT AND TEACH THEIR MEMBERS TO GIVE TITHES ALTHOUGH IT IS CLEAR FROM THE VERSES ABOVE THE TRUTH ABOUT IT.

IF THE ISRAELITES WHO WERE GIVEN AN EVERLASTING COVENANT WILL REPENT AND BELIEVE IN JESUS, THEY WILL BE JUSTIFIED FOR SURE. WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF THEY BREAK AN EVERLASTING COVENANT WITH GOD? WOULD THEY BE SAVED?
WHAT IF THEY UPHOLD IT, WOULD YOU CALL THEM WORKERS FOR SALVATION AND BE ALIENATED FROM JESUS?

ARE GENTILE CHRISTIANS REQUIRED TO GIVE TITHES OTHERWISE YOU'LL BE ROBBING GOD ACCDG TO THEIR PASTORS WHO TEACHES THEM THAT IT IS BY FAITH ALONE VOID OF ANY RIGHTEOUS WORKS THAT A MAN SHALL BE SAVED?

benhur said:

A believer will never be forsaken. But a believer turned unbeliever will be forsaken. So says the parable of the vine, and the sower, and the merciful king. All 3 are perfect examples of a believer that turned to unbeliever and lost their salvation.

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You continually spew false doctrine, don't you. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A BELIEVER THAT TURNED TO BE AN UNBELIEVER.

They thought they were saved, many because they thought their works earned them the right to be saved.

1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.

1 Corinthians 16:22 (NCV)
22 If anyone does not love the Lord, let him be separated from God—lost forever! Come, O Lord!

1 John 4:8 (ESV)
8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.


How do I KNOW that the TRUTH that the Holy Spirit has convinced us to Believe about JESUS CHRIST, will LAST FOREVER? For the best verse that I know, that WILL explain that TRUTH to those who DOUBT, is this:


2 John 1:2 (HCSB)
2 because of the truth that remains in us and will be with us forever.


Believe me, Church goers and genuine Christians are two different things. Why do we put up with most who want to claim to be Christians, when it is obvious that they are not? Because of these verses:

Romans 10:17 (ESV)
17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.


Our LORD is in the business of converting those who only know about Jesus, and turning them into genuine Born Again Christians.

AMEN..............some people turn the salvation of the Lord into a dime store novelty or a check out line in K-MART........

YOUR THEOLOGY flagrantly ignores what JESUS SAID:

John 10:28 (HCSB)
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.

1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.

2 John 1:2 (HCSB)
2 because of the truth that remains in us and will be with us forever.

John 3:36 (CSBBible)
36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life,
but
the one who rejects the Son will not see life;
instead, the wrath of God remains on him.



THEY NEVER WERE REAL CHRISTIANS!

YOU ARE A FALSE TEACHER!

AMEN........as plain as the opening scriptures in this thread.....

Why do we have knowledge of good and evil? Why do we have anything whatsoever? It is all given to us by God, so where would anyone get the idea that it changes when it comes to salvation.
"lord, I give it all to you...except my salvation for your redemptive plan is weak and unstable. Thanks for giving me everything else so freely, but i need to do some work to make sure your will is strong enough for my satisfaction."

Christians are over flowing with their deeds done in righteousness, but we are saved by God's mercy, "Not By Works, Read the Bible!

Titus 1 : 10-16
10 For there are many rebellious people, mere talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision group.

11 They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach--and that for the sake of dishonest gain.
12 Even one of their own prophets has said, "Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons."
13 This testimony is true. Therefore, rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith
14 and will pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the commands of those who reject the truth.
15 To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted.
16 They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.

Romans 15 : 4
4 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

Nothing. We are not responsible, obligated, to do anything in matters of the free gift of God's grace that called us to reconcile ourselves to him by repentance, and faith in his son.
The truth in Titus does not change. Titus 3:5: Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.

AND your points......??

benhur said:

I believe that Jesus never gives up on the believer. But I do believe that a believer can give up on Jesus, and in the process, loses his eternal life. Jesus will force no man to heaven. So that is why Jesus emphasized believers to follow him and keep his commandments, so they would not backslide and lose their eternal life status.

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Do you see the evil you are forced to accept, when you believe that everyone who submits to Christian Water Baptism, is a real Christian?

ONE BAPTISM, is the reality of the HOLY SPIRIT, immersing us into the spiritual BODY of Christ, birthing our once dead human spirit into ETERNAL LIFE. . . . Ref: 1 Cor. 12:13

Matthew 19 : 16-30
16 Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"
17 "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
18 "Which ones?" the man inquired.
19 Jesus replied, "'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,' and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'"
20 "All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?"
21 Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?"
26 Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
27 Peter answered him, "We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?"
28 Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.
30 But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

MANY SELF-PROCLAIMED CHRISTIANS WOULD REJECT AND EVEN NULLIFY THE TEACHING OF JESUS WHOM THEY CALL *LORD* JUST LIKE THE RICH MAN WHO WALKED AWAY.

JESUS.GAVE THESE INSTRUCTIONS BEFORE HE WEN
Titus 3:5 He saved us not by works of righteousness which we had done, but according to His
mercy, by the washing of regeneration, and by the renewing of the Holy Ghost,

THE RIHTEOUSNEßS OF THE JEWS WAS THROUGH THE LAW.

Deuteronomy 6:24-25 The Lord commanded us to obey all these decrees and to fear the Lord
our God, so that we might always prosper and be kept alive, as is the case today. And if we are
careful to obey all this law before the Lord our God, as he has commanded us, THAT WILL BE
OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.”

THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRISTIANS (NEW CREATION/MAN) IS THROUGH FAITH.

Romans 9:30-32 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness,
have obtained it, A RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT IS BY FAITH; but ISRAEL, who pursued a law of
righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it NOT BY FAITH but as if it
were by works. THEY stumbled over the “stumbling stone.”

“NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAD DONE" REFERS TO THE
RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE JEWS WHICH WAS THROUGH THE LAW. (titus 3:5, eph 2:8-9)

PAUL’S QUESTION IS:

Romans 3:31 Do we, then, NULLIFY the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the
law.

HE ALSO SAID,

Romans 3:3-4 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith NULLIFY God’s
faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may
be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”

GOD PUTS AND WRITES THE LAW IN OUR HEARTS AND MINDS.

Hebrews 8:10 This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares
the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and
they will be my people.

Hebrews 10:16 “This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will
put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”

...NOT JUST TO THE JEWS WHO WERE CIRCUMCISED IN THE FLESH BUT ALSO TO
THOSE WHO WERE CIRCUMCISED IN THE HEART.

Romans 2:28-29 A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely
outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is
CIRCUMCISION OF THE HEART, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise
is not from men, but from God.

AND CHRISTIANS ARE ABLE TO FULFILL AND UPHOLD THE LAW IN THEIR HEARTS AND
MINDS BECAUSE OF THE LOVE THAT WAS POURED INTO THEIR HEARTS.

Romans 5:5 And hope does not disappoint us, because GOD HAS POURED OUT HIS LOVE
INTO OUR HEARTS by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.
AND THEREFORE, “LOVE IS THE FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW.”(romans 13:10)

1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we
ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.

1 John 5:2-3 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying
out his commands. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not
burdensome,

2 John 1:6 AND THIS IS LOVE; THAT WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As
you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE.

Romans 10:9-10 That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your HEART that you
BELIEVE and are JUSTIFIED, and it is with your MOUTH that you CONFESS and are
SAVED.

1 John 3:18 Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but WITH ACTIONS AND IN
TRUTH.

Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be FULLY MET IN
US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

Matthew 10:38 and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.

John 14:15 “IF YOU LOVE ME, YOU WILL OBEY WHAT I COMMAND.”

Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

My point is that it is God who justifies, not me. Christ finished the work of God and all of salvations redemptive purpose. It is finished.......not....it is finished if this or that. My God is not up there biting his nails in hopes I will do the right things so the slaughter of his son won't be in vain. My salvation is not a test, nor is it at any time in my control.
Our faith and any and everything else is supplied by God to assure his make it home. The whole idea that we have anything to add to gods grace as a requirement of salvation is self centered and possibly self righteous. It diminishes faith in Christ, and can only accomplish what I could before the grace of God was bestowed upon us......nothing.

Matthew 19 : 16-30
16 Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"
17 "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
18 "Which ones?" the man inquired.
19 Jesus replied, "'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,' and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'"
20 "All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?"
21 Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?"
26 Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
27 Peter answered him, "We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?"
28 Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.
30 But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

MANY SELF-PROCLAIMED CHRISTIANS WOULD REJECT AND EVEN NULLIFY THE TEACHING OF JESUS WHOM THEY CALL *LORD* JUST LIKE THE RICH MAN WHO WALKED AWAY.

JESUS.GAVE THESE INSTRUCTIONS BEFORE HE WENT BACK TO THE FATHER;

Matthew 28:18-20 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and TEACHING THEM TO OBEY EVERYTHING I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

JESUS DID NOT COMMAND HIS DISCIPLES TO PREACH UNTO ALL NATIONS TO GIVE TITHES TO CHURCH LEADERS OR PASTORS. THIS THUS PROVE THAT MAN MADE DOCTRINES ARE PREVALENT IN SO-CALLED CHRISTIAN CHURCHES TODAY WHEREIN THE MOST FAMOUS TODAY ARE "OSAS" AND "FAITH ALONE" ALONG WITH TITHES AND PROSPERITY GOSPEL. THESE PEOPLE IN THE CHURCH CALL THEMSELVES BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS TO THEIR SHAME.

New International Version 1984 Mark 7:6-13 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.’ You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.” And he said to them: “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother. Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”