The doctrine of election and reprobation

Then Hab 2:4 isn't enough evidence for you. It was for Paul because he repeatedly quoted it.

I don't agree. I think "that" refers back to the total verse. We can't boast of our saving in any way. We can't take credit for the kindness OR the faith. We can't take credit for being the author or finisher in any way, shape or fashion.

Ahhh! But, it is! But, for whatever reason? Either in Calvin's interpretation of predestination, or, traditions of men, watering down predestination, or, the combination, of (how can I say) "Sheeples" not wanting to accept (a) predestination aspect of How/What our Heavenly Father does, in His going about His business, or, in (a) Sheeples mindset of "Because predestination is not good enough, us?" It's not good enough for anybody!" Never ever realizing that they are the one's that our Father has Given His Only Begotten! And, that is well enough! Seems, there are 2 kinds of "election!" The elect of Christ, and, the elect, of the Father! Might even call the elect of the Father, (the) Very Elect! Tis the very elect, being of "The Remnant" That are/were "predestined" form the foundations of the earth (heaven too). Our Heavenly Father in His Eternal wisdom, seen fit, and according to His Good Pleasure, in "sprinkling" (if you will), during this earth age "His" remnant, from every generation, since Adam!

So? Is this to say that those given unto the Son, cannot be "rewarded" with very elect status? GOD Forbid! This should be our "life's mission" in these flesh bodies, having invested our "talents", to be given even more!
Even now, their are "predestined remnant" walking around this earth (and heaven too). All who are, are even aware of God's "protective bubble", if you will, and even seen, in most cases, by those who have been given in Christ's Hands, as enemies!

So Yes! "Predestination" is supported, by scripture! But, alas, is Spiritually Discerned! But, as yet? Unrecognized by Sheeple!

I just read it and found that it wasn't referring to me as a Calvinist

Read Robertson on ep 2:8. He is a Greek grammarian:

For by grace (th gar cariti). Explanatory reason. "By the grace" already mentioned in verse Romans 5 and so with the article. Through faith (dia pistew). This phrase he adds in repeating what he said in verse Romans 5 to make it plainer. "Grace" is God's part, "faith" ours. And that (kai touto). Neuter, not feminine tauth, and so refers not to pisti (feminine) or to cari (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part. Paul shows that salvation does not have its source (ex umwn, out of you) in men, but from God. Besides, it is God's gift (dwron) and not the result of our work.

not much in the way of actual intelligent exchange here

just a bunch of my opinion is better than yours

Calvinism has been well argued in this forum, as well as opposing views

I am not a Calvinist nor am I Arminian; but I do get weary of Calvinists acting superior or seeming to believe those who do not hold to their view are somehow stupid or vapid

Of course it isn't because as a Calvinist you think you have new life without faith.

Read Robertson on ep 2:8. He is a Greek grammarian:

For by grace (th gar cariti). Explanatory reason. "By the grace" already mentioned in verse Romans 5 and so with the article. Through faith (dia pistew). This phrase he adds in repeating what he said in verse Romans 5 to make it plainer. "Grace" is God's part, "faith" ours. And that (kai touto). Neuter, not feminine tauth, and so refers not to pisti (feminine) or to cari (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part. Paul shows that salvation does not have its source (ex umwn, out of you) in men, but from God. Besides, it is God's gift (dwron) and not the result of our work.

Sir, with all due respect I was given faith at the point of my conversion. It came to me as a gift, just as Paul received it. I can't say I knew what I was looking for, I was lost and I had no idea what to expect. All I know is I was blind and now I see

Human "frailties", oft times, misconstrued as "acting superior", or thinking some people are "stupid" or "vapid (whatever that word means)", comes from a constant frustration of like trying to herd "kittens!"

Sir, with all due respect I was given faith at the point of my conversion. It came to me as a gift, just as Paul received it. I can't say I knew what I was looking for, I was lost and I had no idea what to expect. All I know is I was blind and now I see

We want to always take some of the credit, some of the glory. Just sneak a little for ourselves. That is just how we are.

With all due respect, you need to hold the Bible over Calvinism. Your new birth is a result of your faith in Christ. Your faith in Christ is not a result of your new birth.

Sir, with all due respect I was given faith at the point of my conversion. It came to me as a gift, just as Paul received it. I can't say I knew what I was looking for, I was lost and I had no idea what to expect. All I know is I was blind and now I see

It isn't taking credit to trust. That is a messed up Calvinist idea.

No man has sowed the seed in himself. How then can he claim credit for the faith?

It isn't taking credit to trust. That is a messed up Calvinist idea.

The BDF is doing its usual work I see,arguing. smh Brother please be careful of what doctrine you accept. This has been a well argued subject here and gets very ugly very fast. No,not you Ugly. Study the word for yourself. Do not simply take anything for granted.

The BDF is doing its usual work I see,arguing. smh Brother please be careful of what doctrine you accept. This has been a well argued subject here and gets very ugly very fast. No,not you Ugly. Study the word for yourself. Do not simply take anything for granted.