The doctrine of election and reprobation

Armenian theology is a modified Calvinism. There is no taking credit in it. Does a homeless man take credit for eating a sandwich you give him? Does he boast that he earned it? Faith is taking the gift of Salvation God gives us but He doesn't smash it into our mouth and shove down our throats. But that is what your Calvinist God is like.

It is great to be eager to learn. But you must be careful of doctrine,it is very important. Be very careful to read and study for yourself. Read contrasting views and pray that God will show you the truth. Its easy to be swayed,but not if you study for yourself and be sure of what you believe. Then no one can sway you with false doctrine.

I would love to do this. but, when folks just yank verses out of context, misrepresent what others say, and will not answer questions, it seems to me it is a battle of trying to prove someone wrong, instead of having a discussion.

this format works well if done in q and a, but when lecturing takes over, egos ( in guys ) come out.

I appreciate folks putting their honest views across, it helps me having the opportunity to gain wisdom

Thanks for that, I have my sword right beside me and draw it out when necessary. The advice has been mostly good, so it has been a blessing so far

Our Elders teach that we don't take faith, they teach that is is given to us. We believe that we contribute zero to our salvation, even faith is a gift from God. The very act of receiving faith isn't something we were capable of, even that was given to us.

The correct meaning of Romans 1:17, Galatians 3:11 and Habbukuk 2:4 is that the just will live out of (ἐκ) faith.

May I ask,where does the Holy Spirit come in to the equation?

We don't take faith. Faith takes the gift of Salvation. Of course God gives us faith just like He gives us hands and mouths. But you will starve to death if you don't use them to eat. Your Calvinist God shoves salvation down certain people's throats while letting the others starve to death.

That's a very passive approach to the faith called total inability. Before regeneration we have no ability due to our blindness of heart, but after, GOD makes us able through the holy spirit.

By faith or out of faith can mean the same thing, so the main message is that faith is a central component of living the Christian life

But the Calvinists think their faith comes out of the new birth.

They are in error. That has elements of gnosticism.

This is the dividing issue that I'm trying to get a clear Biblical view on. I'm not saying the penny has dropped and I get it crystal clear, but I believe I'm forming a Biblical view now with the help of all you good folks

As a Calvinist I believe we receive the whole package deal at the point of conversion, not only faith but all the other components as well in a moment of time

I've heard some good sermons describing salvation as a completely passive experience. I was shown Bible passages which state that we are born dead in our sin, when it says "DEAD" we believe it means dead. A dead person can do?, that's right nothing. Now you agree that it is entirely passive

As a Calvinist then you believe in the Calvinist "order of salvation" (look it up). It teaches that the new birth/regeneration comes before faith and repentance. In other words, a sex pervert can get born again at the moment he is in a barn having sex with an animal.

I can assure of this! The older I get? The less tolerant I seem to be with the those who have (supposedly) confessed Christ before men? Yet, are unable, or unwilling (which really burns my arse...like a candle about "that" high ) in "picking up their cross", and going through Christ unto Our Father! Just as Jesus has His "priests!" So has Our Father in Heaven! There are many reasons why, I suppose. Refusing to allow oneself to be vetted by the Lord of the Harvest, to allow oneself to be "spanked constantly" with the "winnowing forks", but, rather believe that these "events" don't occur, until the end of the age, and so are regarded as when one's flesh body, is looking at the bottom side of a lawnmower? Constitutes, in these eyes, anyway, one being "willingly ignorant!" Having said that? I can more fully understand Our Heavenly Father's "wrath" in forcing some Sheeple, to believe a lie!

(sighs) "Buy 'em books, and send 'em to school?" "What do they do?" "Jump on their desks, and chew on the covers!"

As far as going through my other post? Ask God, in the Son, to help you make less the "void", in the/those "mansions of abidance" (meno, in the greek), you are currently in, "Caused" by (the) traditions of man. And, you may "see", a lessor number of "birdy's", that swoop down, and gobble the Word! You may feel, a deepening of "spiritual" roots! Roots that eventually, encircle the "stone", and crush it! You may see, as it seems you already have, and do, a "rising" up in the "way", or hard-packed ground, in spite of it! Or, another analogy, the more one "grows?" The more the Word of God, that is "thrown" at ya? The more of it, that "sticks!" Also called spiritual discernment.

I may be preaching to the choir, as far as your concerned. And, offer my apologies, if I have done so. But, at this point in time, and my own spiritual growth. It is (a) platform that I have and use, in my efforts of "enlargening" the Kingdom of God, and Kingdom of Light! In spite of, and "in the face" of Nimrod's digital "tower of babel!"

Read the context in Eph ch 2. Being dead doesn't mean you are an inanimate corpse. It means that you couldn't stop sinning and do the good things God wants you to do.

My understanding is, we were chosen for salvation before the earth was made but we are still born into the world sinners like everyone else. God chooses a time when He calls us out of the world, we don't chose that time and we have anything to do with that timing.