John Chapter 3 REFUTES Five Point Calvinism

If you want to view faith as a gift, then God gave it to everyone, but some choose to reject it.

The gift of faith is freely given to those who can receive it (the elect)

So to Calvinists, 9/11 was God's will, Columbine was God's will, women getting raped is God's will, stillborn babies are God's will, sin is God's will........

If everything is God's will, then God is evil, capricious, duplicitous, and cannot be trusted.

He who does not believe is condemned already, meaning they were already dead in their sin and god is not going to quicken them to life. That's how we read it

We believe God created everything including the choice to commit evil acts. Gods elect are not capable of committing evil, as we are the slaves of Christ so we can't do anything unless He allows it. The reprobate are free to commit evil until they are cast into hell

Where do you come up with this stuff?

Every time we sin, we are committing evil and going directly AGAINST what God wants us to do.

The tax collector did not either, God had to show him everything he needed, yet he showed the pharisee the same things, The tax collector did not have some special gift that allowed him to see. He was offered the same thing the pharisee was, He chose yes, the pharisee chose no.



You act as if no one else thinks that way. I think you are so drawn in, it is hard for you to see anything else. I say this, because you keep making remarks that you believe something, and say it as if no one else does but you.

its the work of God we have faith, God works in all. but not all will have faith.

as Jesus said, they were unwilling

it is freely given to all. But not all will recieve it, as jesus said, not all is willing.

free will is not a dirty word. You can not have a relationship without it. God proved this by giving his creation free will to begin with (but of this tree, you will not eat)

if you can not chose to walk away, You can not chose to stay, your a robot. and there is no relationship, because you can never appreciate what you have.

No, It means they never came to faith.

since one has to come to faith to be made alive (eternal life)

Jas 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

It's because many love the world more than GOD. Whoever loves the world more than GOD, GOD considers his enemy.

This is just the self-negation of new gnosticism.

Does the verse have to say that, when it is automatically IMPLIED? And are there not many things in Scripture which are implied?

Since there is nothing qualifying believing it is implied that ALL may either believe or disbelieve. Had the verse said "He that is elect and believeth..." and "He that is not elect and does not believe..." you would have reason to question what was stated.

You make valid points, and I'm certainly not going to judge the hearts of men for salvation or lack thereof.

This is my experience. I absolutely confessed that I was a sinner and absolutely knew that Jesus is the Son of God, God in the flesh, and that He was crucified, died to pay my sin debt, and rose on the 3rd day.

But I didn't have an instantaneous lifestyle change. Many of the old sins were not totally put away. At this time I thought that if I sinned too much that I would lose salvation. I tried very hard to stop doing various bad behavior. The more I tried, the more entangled I seemed to get.

After yrs in this battle, I very suddenly had the overwhelming thought and feeling that I was lost and no longer saved.

I felt huge condemnation. So much so, that for the better part of a decade I wanted nothing to do with Church, God, the Bible etc... Because all the condemnation came back when I did.

But once again, the Lord eventually drew me back and retrieved me from that awful life. Why? Because I am His Child! He left the 99 and went and got me.
I can look back now and literally see Romans 8:28 at work. I KNOW now that I am forever His, and the incredible thing is that revelation has done infinitely more for me to walk in the Spirit and not sin, then all my struggle and effort!
So I understand your concern about an intellectual assent, and not a true conversion. I will leave that issue dealing with others to the Lord. He will NOT lose a single one of His sheep. I believe Him.

The same thing could be said when he separates the sheep and the goats, wheat and tares. Doesn’t seem right now does it Shrumes.

Well, if you want to destroy some long-established theology, you will probably need more than something that is only implied.

Where does that verse mention a person is saved because they decided to believe?

It doesn't say that. You are trying to make it say that because of your wrong philosophy.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

There is Salvation and how it is attained as told by the Bible. Not peoples wishful philosophy.

You are saved through faith. This doesn't come from you. It is the Gift of God.

This one small verse pretty much dis-proves all your other faulty philosophy and is the back-bone of people who believe in the goodness of God and not the goodness and wisdom of their own self.

The two things are not even remotely similar. Calvinists think it was God's will for those things I listed above to happen. At the sheep & goat judgment, people will be judged according to how they chose to live and believe. It is THEIR responsibility to decide how to live, THEIR choices that they will be judged for. God is not in any way responsible for how people choose to live. He is not responsible for peoples' unbelief.

When a person is saved God seals them with the gift of the Holy Spirit. And Eph 1:13 says that happens after (or when) a person hears the gospel and believes it.

In Eph 2:8-9, the gift is not faith, but salvation (cp Rom 6:23), which we receive BY faith.

And please explain how God is good if it is His responsibility and within His power to save people, but He only saves some, while leaving others to die in their sins. Again, see 1 Tim 2:4; 2 Pet 3:9; Eze 33:11.