-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
"
It seems in your defense of Mainstream Christianity you have forgotten why Jesus came to the Last sheep of Israel in the first place.
They were "lost" because their one exposure to God's Word was filtered through the Priests and Mainstream Preachers of their time which had rejected God's true teaching and replaced it with their own doctrines created after the commandments of men.
The true Law and Prophets were "heresy" to them.
Jesus pointed His Finger at them and condemned their preaching, not because it was easy, but because it was true. Because they had mixed God's Instructions, with doctrines and traditions of men, Jesus said there was NO truth in them. None. He said when they read Moses, listen to them, but don't do as they preach, because they said they taught Moses, but they didn't.
I don't see any difference between them, and modern Mainstream Christianity today. Different names, different traditions, but the same outcome. A church which transgresses the commandments of God by their own traditions. Nothing is different. Those who belonged to their church believed they were justified in their traditions, and those who belong in todays church also believe they are justified in their traditions.
Those who exposed these man made traditions were scorned and ridiculed then, and they are today as well.
The problem with the Mainstream Church of Christ's time is the "Preachers" truly believed they were God's Children teaching God's Truth. But Jesus clearly pointed out they were not God's Children even though they believed they were.
As a result "unsaved, mislead, mentally ill, hurting, and demonized people" were the ones preaching to people how to enter God's Kingdom. They didn't know they were this way because they were deceived, or "Blind" as Jesus said. The Blind leading the Blind, or to coin your Phrase:
The unsaved, mislead, mentally ill, hurting, and demonized people, leading the unsaved, mislead, mentally ill, hurting, and demonized people.
Jesus exposed this truth to them in an attempt to save them. They must first understand and accept that the problem was "within them". But Man doesn't like to be told they are wrong, especially men who believe they are already saved, already righteous.
It was the same with Cain and Abel, Caleb and the rest of the Children of Israel, Jesus and the Jews, and it will be the same for mankind today.
Luke 13:4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
They were "lost" because their one exposure to God's Word was filtered through the Priests and Mainstream Preachers of their time which had rejected God's true teaching and replaced it with their own doctrines created after the commandments of men.
The true Law and Prophets were "heresy" to them.
Jesus pointed His Finger at them and condemned their preaching, not because it was easy, but because it was true. Because they had mixed God's Instructions, with doctrines and traditions of men, Jesus said there was NO truth in them. None. He said when they read Moses, listen to them, but don't do as they preach, because they said they taught Moses, but they didn't.
I don't see any difference between them, and modern Mainstream Christianity today. Different names, different traditions, but the same outcome. A church which transgresses the commandments of God by their own traditions. Nothing is different. Those who belonged to their church believed they were justified in their traditions, and those who belong in todays church also believe they are justified in their traditions.
Those who exposed these man made traditions were scorned and ridiculed then, and they are today as well.
The problem with the Mainstream Church of Christ's time is the "Preachers" truly believed they were God's Children teaching God's Truth. But Jesus clearly pointed out they were not God's Children even though they believed they were.
As a result "unsaved, mislead, mentally ill, hurting, and demonized people" were the ones preaching to people how to enter God's Kingdom. They didn't know they were this way because they were deceived, or "Blind" as Jesus said. The Blind leading the Blind, or to coin your Phrase:
The unsaved, mislead, mentally ill, hurting, and demonized people, leading the unsaved, mislead, mentally ill, hurting, and demonized people.
Jesus exposed this truth to them in an attempt to save them. They must first understand and accept that the problem was "within them". But Man doesn't like to be told they are wrong, especially men who believe they are already saved, already righteous.
It was the same with Cain and Abel, Caleb and the rest of the Children of Israel, Jesus and the Jews, and it will be the same for mankind today.
Luke 13:4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
-
1
- Show all
For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
(Acts 15:21)
touching the righteousness which is in the Law, blameless.
(Philippians 3:6)
And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
(Luke 1:6)
The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John.
(Luke 16:16)
You know the commandments
(Mark 10:19)
After the reading from the Law and the Prophets, the leaders of the synagogue sent word to them, saying, "Brothers, if you have a word of exhortation for the people, please speak."
(Acts 13:15)
-
1
- Show all
At the time when Christ was on earth, there was no Church. The people to whom Jesus preached were Israelites under the Law, not Christians freed from the Law.
Preach that to the mirror.
Until you rightly divide the word of truth, you will continue in your error. I will not join you in it.
Either we are under the Law in its entirety or we are not under the Law at all. Ephesians 5:18 "Bit if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law."
Preach that to the mirror.
Until you rightly divide the word of truth, you will continue in your error. I will not join you in it.
Either we are under the Law in its entirety or we are not under the Law at all. Ephesians 5:18 "Bit if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law."
no I mean I didn't mention circumcision in post 582 where talking about The Sermon on the Mount approach to the Sabbath begin, in which you had asked about working to earn money on the Sabbath.
Jesus did provide scripture
Give us today our daily bread.12 Forgive us our debts, as we also forgive our debtors. 13 Bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. For yours is the Kingdom, the power, and the glory forever. Amen.[a] ’
14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you don’t forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
16 “Moreover when you fast, don’t be like the hypocrites, with sad faces. For they disfigure their faces, that they may be seen by men to be fasting. Most certainly I tell you, they have received their reward. 17 But you, when you fast, anoint your head, and wash your face; 18 so that you are not seen by men to be fasting, but by your Father who is in secret, and your Father, who sees in secret, will reward you.
19 “Don’t lay up treasures for yourselves on the earth, where moth and rust consume, and where thieves break through and steal;20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consume, and where thieves don’t break through and steal; 21 for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
22 “The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is sound, your whole body will be full of light. 23 But if your eye is evil, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!
24 “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other; or else he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You can’t serve both God and Mammon. 25 Therefore I tell you, don’t be anxious for your life: what you will eat, or what you will drink; nor yet for your body, what you will wear. Isn’t life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26 See the birds of the sky, that they don’t sow, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns. Your heavenly Father feeds them. Aren’t you of much more value than they?
27 “Which of you, by being anxious, can add one moment[b] to his lifespan? 28 Why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow. They don’t toil, neither do they spin, 29 yet I tell you that even Solomon in all his glory was not dressed like one of these. 30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today exists, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, won’t he much more clothe you, you of little faith?
31 “Therefore don’t be anxious, saying, ‘What will we eat?’, ‘What will we drink?’ or, ‘With what will we be clothed?’ 32 For the Gentiles seek after all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. 33 But seek first God’s Kingdom, and his righteousness; and all these things will be given to you as well.34 Therefore don’t be anxious for tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Each day’s own evil is sufficient.
Don’t judge, so that you won’t be judged. 2 For with whatever judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with whatever measure you measure, it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but don’t consider the beam that is in your own eye? 4 Or how will you tell your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye;’ and behold, the beam is in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite! First remove the beam out of your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother’s eye.
6 “Don’t give that which is holy to the dogs, neither throw your pearls before the pigs, lest perhaps they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.
7 “Ask, and it will be given you. Seek, and you will find. Knock, and it will be opened for you. 8 For everyone who asks receives. He who seeks finds. To him who knocks it will be opened. 9 Or who is there among you, who, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, who will give him a serpent? 11 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!12 Therefore whatever you desire for men to do to you, you shall also do to them; for this is the law and the prophets.
13 “Enter in by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter in by it.14 How[a] narrow is the gate, and restricted is the way that leads to life! Few are those who find it.
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves. 16 By their fruits you will know them. Do you gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree produces good fruit; but the corrupt tree produces evil fruit.18 A good tree can’t produce evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that doesn’t grow good fruit is cut down, and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.21 Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will tell me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?’ 23 Then I will tell them, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.’
24 “Everyone therefore who hears these words of mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man, who built his house on a rock. 25 The rain came down, the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat on that house; and it didn’t fall, for it was founded on the rock. 26 Everyone who hears these words of mine, and doesn’t do them will be like a foolish man, who built his house on the sand. 27 The rain came down, the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat on that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.”
the scriptures don't say what Jesus did on the Sabbath when he was working as a carpenter. it's not clear whether he was building houses or making cabinets. to draw conclusions based on what Jesus did on the Sabbath, when it's not stated in the scripture, is speculation.
I agree that we are not to do our own work on the Sabbath. I think it is good to Center on God in his works every day.
exactly! You can't serve two masters. So what will you do with your excess? Will you work 6 days a week in order to get more then you need for necessities, and spend it on yourself?
and amen, seek first God's kingdom and his righteousness, which in the context of The Sermon on the Mount follows the section about considering the birds and the lilies.
Jesus did provide scripture
Give us today our daily bread.12 Forgive us our debts, as we also forgive our debtors. 13 Bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. For yours is the Kingdom, the power, and the glory forever. Amen.[a] ’
14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you don’t forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
16 “Moreover when you fast, don’t be like the hypocrites, with sad faces. For they disfigure their faces, that they may be seen by men to be fasting. Most certainly I tell you, they have received their reward. 17 But you, when you fast, anoint your head, and wash your face; 18 so that you are not seen by men to be fasting, but by your Father who is in secret, and your Father, who sees in secret, will reward you.
19 “Don’t lay up treasures for yourselves on the earth, where moth and rust consume, and where thieves break through and steal;20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consume, and where thieves don’t break through and steal; 21 for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
22 “The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is sound, your whole body will be full of light. 23 But if your eye is evil, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!
24 “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other; or else he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You can’t serve both God and Mammon. 25 Therefore I tell you, don’t be anxious for your life: what you will eat, or what you will drink; nor yet for your body, what you will wear. Isn’t life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26 See the birds of the sky, that they don’t sow, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns. Your heavenly Father feeds them. Aren’t you of much more value than they?
27 “Which of you, by being anxious, can add one moment[b] to his lifespan? 28 Why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow. They don’t toil, neither do they spin, 29 yet I tell you that even Solomon in all his glory was not dressed like one of these. 30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today exists, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, won’t he much more clothe you, you of little faith?
31 “Therefore don’t be anxious, saying, ‘What will we eat?’, ‘What will we drink?’ or, ‘With what will we be clothed?’ 32 For the Gentiles seek after all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. 33 But seek first God’s Kingdom, and his righteousness; and all these things will be given to you as well.34 Therefore don’t be anxious for tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Each day’s own evil is sufficient.
Don’t judge, so that you won’t be judged. 2 For with whatever judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with whatever measure you measure, it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but don’t consider the beam that is in your own eye? 4 Or how will you tell your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye;’ and behold, the beam is in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite! First remove the beam out of your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother’s eye.
6 “Don’t give that which is holy to the dogs, neither throw your pearls before the pigs, lest perhaps they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.
7 “Ask, and it will be given you. Seek, and you will find. Knock, and it will be opened for you. 8 For everyone who asks receives. He who seeks finds. To him who knocks it will be opened. 9 Or who is there among you, who, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, who will give him a serpent? 11 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!12 Therefore whatever you desire for men to do to you, you shall also do to them; for this is the law and the prophets.
13 “Enter in by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter in by it.14 How[a] narrow is the gate, and restricted is the way that leads to life! Few are those who find it.
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves. 16 By their fruits you will know them. Do you gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree produces good fruit; but the corrupt tree produces evil fruit.18 A good tree can’t produce evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that doesn’t grow good fruit is cut down, and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.21 Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will tell me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?’ 23 Then I will tell them, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.’
24 “Everyone therefore who hears these words of mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man, who built his house on a rock. 25 The rain came down, the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat on that house; and it didn’t fall, for it was founded on the rock. 26 Everyone who hears these words of mine, and doesn’t do them will be like a foolish man, who built his house on the sand. 27 The rain came down, the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat on that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.”
the scriptures don't say what Jesus did on the Sabbath when he was working as a carpenter. it's not clear whether he was building houses or making cabinets. to draw conclusions based on what Jesus did on the Sabbath, when it's not stated in the scripture, is speculation.
I agree that we are not to do our own work on the Sabbath. I think it is good to Center on God in his works every day.
exactly! You can't serve two masters. So what will you do with your excess? Will you work 6 days a week in order to get more then you need for necessities, and spend it on yourself?
and amen, seek first God's kingdom and his righteousness, which in the context of The Sermon on the Mount follows the section about considering the birds and the lilies.
one may wish to consider
Now I would not have you ignorant, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;2 and were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 and all ate the same spiritual food; 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of a spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ. 5 However with most of them, God was not well pleased, for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. 7 Don’t be idolaters, as some of them were. As it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.”[a]8 Let us not commit sexual immorality, as some of them committed, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell. 9 Let us not test Christ,[b] as some of them tested, and perished by the serpents. 10 Don’t grumble, as some of them also grumbled, and perished by the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened to them by way of example, and they were written for our admonition, on whom the ends of the ages have come. 12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands be careful that he doesn’t fall.
13 No temptation has taken you except what is common to man. God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted above what you are able, but will with the temptation also make the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it. 14 Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry.
we see that one reason the examples from the Old Testament we're given is so that we would know to flee from idolatry.
we know that a person can't serve both God and Mammon.
if a person is working to earn money in excess of what they need for necessities, working to earn money to spend it on their own lusts, then I would say they are doing or are in danger of loving and serving Mammon.
if a person is loving and serving Mammon then I would say they are in danger of, or are already doing, idolatry. which would also mean, I believe, but they have misunderstood the examples from the Old Testament.
Now I would not have you ignorant, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;2 and were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 and all ate the same spiritual food; 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of a spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ. 5 However with most of them, God was not well pleased, for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. 7 Don’t be idolaters, as some of them were. As it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.”[a]8 Let us not commit sexual immorality, as some of them committed, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell. 9 Let us not test Christ,[b] as some of them tested, and perished by the serpents. 10 Don’t grumble, as some of them also grumbled, and perished by the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened to them by way of example, and they were written for our admonition, on whom the ends of the ages have come. 12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands be careful that he doesn’t fall.
13 No temptation has taken you except what is common to man. God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted above what you are able, but will with the temptation also make the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it. 14 Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry.
we see that one reason the examples from the Old Testament we're given is so that we would know to flee from idolatry.
we know that a person can't serve both God and Mammon.
if a person is working to earn money in excess of what they need for necessities, working to earn money to spend it on their own lusts, then I would say they are doing or are in danger of loving and serving Mammon.
if a person is loving and serving Mammon then I would say they are in danger of, or are already doing, idolatry. which would also mean, I believe, but they have misunderstood the examples from the Old Testament.
So you preach physical circumcision? That's part of the "every word of God" (just like the Sabbath and the feasts). Or do you preach that physical circumcision is not required of those coming to Christ?
You cannot have it both ways. Either you attempt to be righteous in your own strength by following the Law perfectly (and will fail) or you accept the perfect completed work of Christ and have His righteousness and fulfillment of the Law imputed to you by faith.
You cannot have it both ways. Either you attempt to be righteous in your own strength by following the Law perfectly (and will fail) or you accept the perfect completed work of Christ and have His righteousness and fulfillment of the Law imputed to you by faith.
-
1
- Show all
Just replying to the portion I highlight in your quote...
But didn't the Holy Spirit descend and empower the apostles specifically on the Feast of Weeks Holiday (also known as Pentecost)?
Pentecost = 50th
Leviticus 23:15-16
15 From the day after the Sabbath, the day you brought the sheaf of the wave offering, you are to count seven full [shabuim]. 16 You shall count fifty days until the day after the seventh Sabbath, and then present an offering of new grain to the LORD.
Acts 2:1-4
1 When the day of Pentecost came, the believers were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like a mighty rushing wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw tongues like flames of a fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.
(I'm probably not understanding the rhetorical question in context. Maybe you meant the question in context of present day..)
But didn't the Holy Spirit descend and empower the apostles specifically on the Feast of Weeks Holiday (also known as Pentecost)?
Pentecost = 50th
Leviticus 23:15-16
15 From the day after the Sabbath, the day you brought the sheaf of the wave offering, you are to count seven full [shabuim]. 16 You shall count fifty days until the day after the seventh Sabbath, and then present an offering of new grain to the LORD.
Acts 2:1-4
1 When the day of Pentecost came, the believers were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like a mighty rushing wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw tongues like flames of a fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.
(I'm probably not understanding the rhetorical question in context. Maybe you meant the question in context of present day..)
-
1
- Show all
I was responding specifically to another's post, "I think the strongest evidence that we should refrain from blending Pagan practices into true Christian holy days is found in the conduct of Believers and non-believers during these mixed holiday seasons. Christmas time for instance has the highest suicide rate of any time of the year which to me is hardly indicative that the Holy Spirit descends and Power upon all those who practice this holiday celebration. "
I was questioning the reasoning of his last sentence quoted above. I don't believe that the Holy Spirit descends in power on those who practice any particular holiday celebration, whether Jewish, Christian, or (obviously) other. Therefore, the idea that the apparent absence of Holy Spirit power on those who celebrate Christmas is not adequate support for rejecting the celebration of Christmas.
I was questioning the reasoning of his last sentence quoted above. I don't believe that the Holy Spirit descends in power on those who practice any particular holiday celebration, whether Jewish, Christian, or (obviously) other. Therefore, the idea that the apparent absence of Holy Spirit power on those who celebrate Christmas is not adequate support for rejecting the celebration of Christmas.
I don't believe in the teachings and doctrines of a church which openly transgresses the commandments of God by their own religious traditions.
I don't believe righteousness is somehow determined by vote or consensus among these same religious men.
I do believe in the perfect, complete work of the Word which became Flesh. That is why I Honor Him with reverence to His Ways and His Righteousness and not ancient Religious High Days.
I believe the Bible is clear in the intent of Circumcision.
Duet. 10:
12 And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
13 To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
14 Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD'S thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.
15 Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day.
16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
I also believe the Word which became Flesh is clear on the intent of His Holy Sanctified Sabbath.
Is. 58:
13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
You are right about one thing. You can't serve two masters.
I don't believe righteousness is somehow determined by vote or consensus among these same religious men.
I do believe in the perfect, complete work of the Word which became Flesh. That is why I Honor Him with reverence to His Ways and His Righteousness and not ancient Religious High Days.
I believe the Bible is clear in the intent of Circumcision.
Duet. 10:
12 And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
13 To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
14 Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD'S thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.
15 Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day.
16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
I also believe the Word which became Flesh is clear on the intent of His Holy Sanctified Sabbath.
Is. 58:
13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
You are right about one thing. You can't serve two masters.
-
1
- Show all
I couldn't agree more.
This is why I speak out against religions which take the name of Christ, yet Transgress the Commandments of God by their ancient religious traditions. The examples show what happens when a religion creates their own "Feasts unto the Lord" as well as defile His Holy Sabbath with their own work God gave them ample time during God's created week to complete. We are bought with a price.
I also agree that using the fruits of our labor to follow any of these things below is not a righteous thing to do. And giving of the Blessings God bestowed on us to random poor people we know nothing about may look good to men, but doesn't line up with how Jesus helped those in need.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
This is why I speak out against religions which take the name of Christ, yet Transgress the Commandments of God by their ancient religious traditions. The examples show what happens when a religion creates their own "Feasts unto the Lord" as well as defile His Holy Sabbath with their own work God gave them ample time during God's created week to complete. We are bought with a price.
I also agree that using the fruits of our labor to follow any of these things below is not a righteous thing to do. And giving of the Blessings God bestowed on us to random poor people we know nothing about may look good to men, but doesn't line up with how Jesus helped those in need.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
And this is where most make their mistake, thinking all the law as one entirity, putting no difference between holy and unholy or spiritual and carnal.
You talk about DIVIDING the word of truth - yet at the same time you put no difference between holy and unholy.....you don't think that is confusing ?
GOD puts difference between HIS Holy Commandments which are eternal and carnal/works commandments which are temporal ! So when we fail to see that difference we OBVIOUSLY will get things wrong...either abolishing all or none ....hence the confusion and disagreements.
You talk about DIVIDING the word of truth - yet at the same time you put no difference between holy and unholy.....you don't think that is confusing ?
GOD puts difference between HIS Holy Commandments which are eternal and carnal/works commandments which are temporal ! So when we fail to see that difference we OBVIOUSLY will get things wrong...either abolishing all or none ....hence the confusion and disagreements.
-
1
- Show all
which part of the Law are you calling unholy & carnal?
the word for 'Law' here in the scripture is singular, as it is all over the scripture.
why would you say it's a 'mistake' to think of the Law the way the scripture itself describes it?
So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
(Romans 7:12)
We know that the Law is spiritual
(Romans 7:14)
(Romans 7:14)
the word for 'Law' here in the scripture is singular, as it is all over the scripture.
why would you say it's a 'mistake' to think of the Law the way the scripture itself describes it?
-
2
- Show all
“Thus says the LORD of hosts, ‘Ask now the priests for a ruling:
‘If a man carries holy meat in the fold of his garment, and touches bread with this fold, or cooked food, wine, oil, or any other food, will it become holy?’” And the priests answered, “No.” Then Haggai said, “If one who is unclean from a corpse touches any of these, will the latter become unclean?” And the priests answered, “It will become unclean.”
(Haggai 2:11-13)
the scripture says the Law ((singular)) is holy and is spiritual. if the carnal and unholy mixes with the holy then the whole lump becomes unclean.
if you call some of the Law unholy and carnal, are you not calling it all unclean?
"a little leaven"
clearly with regard to circumcision it was physically commanded and no longer is, and can in fact be anathema to physically keep as though by Law.
clearly spiritual circumcision of the heart is not done with human hands: it is the Lord's doing, not mans.
circumcision was given as a sign
its removal is given as a sign
clearly spiritual circumcision of the heart is not done with human hands: it is the Lord's doing, not mans.
No, a man is a Jew because he is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise does not come from men, but from God.
(Romans 2:29)
In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ
(Colossians 2:11)
the intention of circumcision is clearly spelled out in scripture. ((Genesis 17, Romans 4:11 espc.))circumcision was given as a sign
its removal is given as a sign
-
1
- Show all