Can anyone help me understand these verses?

Nonsense, Judas is an example of election lost. And in the letter to the church of Philadelphia Christ says: "Let no one else take your crown." If the INCORRUPTABLE SEED could not be rejected then Judas would not be the example given , he who was a chosen Elect apostle. It is suicide to reject and betray Christ! That is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit spoken of by Christ, SIN UNTO DEATH! For then you are like the angels, not having been tempted but knowing of good and evil and consciously choosing evil! Not born into bad circumstances, or just not knowing Christ, but knowing Christ and betraying Him. satan means (Betrayer of God) and that is what a person is who after knowing Christ betrays Him. You become of satan's spirit. And not as Peter(Who denied Him, not betrayed Him) who was going through his redemption process and Christ's work was not finished by His death , burial and resurrection at the time that Peter denied him. The example of what Judas did is an example of what people do to Christ within, after having known Him intimately like Judas. Christ is crucified again in those who choose to betray Christ, Example: Katy Perry, and the like!

Hmm, are you sure about that...........

.........John 5
.........24 ..Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has 'eternal' life, and does not come into
.........judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

.........John 6
.........37 ..ALL that the Father gives Me WILL come to Me, and......
.........39 .....of all that He has given Me, I LOSE NOTHING, but raise it up on the last day. (excerpted from John 6:37-40)

.........John 10
.........27 ..My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
.........28 ..and I give 'eternal' life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

.........Hebrews 7
.........25 ..He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

.........1 John 5
.........13 ..These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

~Deut

.........1 Thessalonians 5
.........23 ..May the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete,
.........without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
.........24 ..Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.
.........

Repentance and regret go hand and hand. If you do not regret your behavior you have no desire to repent. Why you are defending the one who betrayed Christ..........very odd.

Not defending you are reading into my statement, but you are making many, many assumptions and they do not go hand in hand, a person can have much regret but never repent.
To repent means to change one's mind, it does not mean to feel sorry about one's sins or to stop sinning like some street preachers wrongly preach.

Feel free to do and say whatever. I am not stopping anyone.
You again falsely interpret scripture. Let's start with:
Romans 11:29 because it is the most important concerning your false application. Since we have determined the scriptures do not contradict one another, and what Hebrew says is obvious and what Peter says is obvious, it is obvious you are misinterpreting Romans, this based on the obvious- SCRIPTURE DOES NOT CONTRADICT ITSELF.

Full context of the smidgen quote you falsely applied:

All Israel Shall Be Saved Romans 11:

25I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come from Zion;

He will remove godlessness from Jacob.

27And this is My covenant with them

when I take away their sins.”

28Regarding the gospel, they are enemies on your account; but regarding election, they are loved on account of the patriarchs. 29For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable.

THIS CONCERNS ISRAEL AS TO THEIR ELECTION. For a time they are made hardened until the full number of the gentile be completed.
NOT ALL GENTILES WILL BE SAVED, ALL ISRAEL RATHER! AGAIN THE SCRIPTURES DO NOT CONTRADICT ONE ANOTHER. You are contradicting scriptures with your false interpretation. Regarding ELECTION , THEY (ISRAEL) are loved on account of the patriarchs.

30Just as you who formerly disobeyed God have now received mercy through their disobedience, 31so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you. 32For God has consigned all men to disobedience so that He may have mercy on them all.

Through Israel's disobedience the gentile received mercy. Full context is important.

Yes the larger context is about Israel and their election, however verse 29 speaks to the character and promises of God.

So then............ you are stating that these gifts and His calling are irrevocable only pertain to Israel as the Elect, however the same God who gives the gift of salvation in the new covenant to Jews and the Gentiles (for those who have been born again) those gifts/calling He has made revocable?

So we have two different Gods then. It would seem that we should try to become Jews to gain the irrevocable gifts?

Is this what you are stating?

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. NKJV

Anything from God is a gift.

Yes the larger context is about Israel and their election, however verse 29 speaks to the character and promises of God.

So then............ you are stating that these gifts and His calling are irrevocable only pertain to Israel as the Elect, however the same God who gives the gift of salvation in the new covenant to Jews and the Gentiles (for those who have been born again) those gifts/calling He has made revocable?

So we have two different Gods then. It would seem that we should try to become Jews to gain the irrevocable gifts?

Is this what you are stating?

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. NKJV

Anything from God is a gift.

Hi Rebecca, you will probably find this somewhat different perspective from Dr. MacArthur interesting (and if you have any further interest in what he has to say on this subject/this passage, I would be willing to pass along his full commentary on these particular verses to you ..what you see below are commentary notes from his Study Bible.. but via PM only due to copyright).

6:4 enlightened. They had received instruction in biblical truth which was accompanied by intellectual perception. Understanding the gospel is not the equivalent of regeneration (cf. 10:26, 32). In John 1:9 it is clear that enlightening is not the equivalent of salvation. Cf. 10:29. tasted the heavenly gift. Tasting in the figurative sense in the NT refers to consciously experiencing something (cf. 2:9). The experience might be momentary or continuing. Christ’s “tasting” of death (2:9) was obviously momentary and not continuing or permanent. All men experience the goodness of God, but that does not mean they are all saved (cf. Matt. 5:45; Acts 17:25). Many Jews, during the Lord’s earthly ministry experienced the blessings from heaven He brought—in healings and deliverance from demons, as well as eating the food He created miraculously (John 6). Whether the gift refers to Christ (cf. John 6:51; 2 Cor. 9:15) or to the Holy Spirit (cf. Acts 2:38; 1 Pet. 1:12), experiencing either one was not the equivalent of salvation (cf. John 16:8; Acts 7:51). partakers of the Holy Spirit. See notes on 2:4. Even though the concept of partaking is used in 3:1; 3:14; and 12:8 of a relationship which believers have, the context must be the final determining factor. This context in vv. 4–6 seems to preclude a reference to true believers. It could be a reference to their participation, as noted above, in the miraculous ministry of Jesus who was empowered by the Spirit (see notes on Matt. 12:18–32; cf. Luke 4:14, 18) or in the convicting ministry of the Holy Spirit (John 16:8) which obviously can be resisted without experiencing salvation (cf. Acts 7:51).

6:5 tasted. See note on v. 4. This has an amazing correspondence to what was described in 2:1–4 (see notes there). Like Simon Magus (Acts 8:9–24), these Hebrews had not yet been regenerated in spite of all they had heard and seen (cf. Matt. 13:3–9; John 6:60–66). They were repeating the sins of those who died in the wilderness after seeing the miracles performed through Moses and Aaron and hearing the voice of God at Sinai.

6:6 fall away. This Gr. term occurs only here in the NT. In the LXX, it was used to translate terms for severe unfaithfulness and apostasy (cf. Ezek. 14:13; 18:24; 20:27). It is equivalent to the apostasy in 3:12. The seriousness of this unfaithfulness is seen in the severe description of rejection within this verse: they re-crucify Christ and treat Him contemptuously (see also the strong descriptions in 10:29). The “impossible” of v. 4 goes with “to renew them again to repentance.” Those who sinned against Christ in such a way had no hope of restoration or forgiveness (cf. 2:2, 3; 10:26, 27; 12:25). The reason is that they had rejected Him with full knowledge and conscious experience (as described in the features of vv. 5, 6). With full revelation they rejected the truth, concluding the opposite of the truth about Christ, and thus had no hope of being saved. They can never have more knowledge than they had when they rejected it. They have concluded that Jesus should have been crucified, and they stand with his enemies. There is no possibility of these verses referring to losing salvation. Many Scripture passages make unmistakably clear that salvation is eternal (cf. John 10:27–29; Rom. 8:35, 38, 39; Phil. 1:6; 1 Pet. 1:4, 5). Those who want to make this verse mean that believers can lose salvation will have to admit that it would then also say that one could never get it back again. See Introduction: Interpretive Challenges.

6:7, 8 Here are illustrations showing that those who hear the gospel message and respond in faith are blessed; those who hear and reject it are cursed (cf. Matt. 13:18–23).

6:8 rejected. See the use of the term in Rom. 1:28 (“debased”); 2 Cor. 13:5 (“disqualified”); and 2 Tim. 3:8 (“disapproved”).

6:9 beloved. This term shows a change of audience and a change from a message of warning to a message of encouragement. That the address is to believers is further confirmed by the expression of confidence that “better things” could be said of them (as compared to those who were being warned in the preceding verses). The “things that accompany salvation” are their works which verify their salvation (v. 10; cf. Eph. 2:10; James 2:18, 26). The very statement implies that the things described in 5:11–6:5 do not accompany salvation but are indicative of unbelief and apostasy. though we speak in this manner. Though it had been necessary to speak about judgment in the preceding verses, the writer assures the “beloved,” those who are believers, that he is confident of their salvation.

~Deut
p.s. - part of his intro to Hebrews would no doubt prove useful as well, and since it deals with 6:4-6 directly, I will include it as well (this too is an excerpt from the MacArthur Study Bible notes).

Interpretive Challenges (Hebrews)

A proper interpretation of this epistle requires the recognition that it addresses 3 distinct groups of Jews: 1) believers; 2) unbelievers who were intellectually convinced of the gospel; and 3) unbelievers who were attracted by the gospel and the person of Christ but who had reached no final conviction about Him. Failure to acknowledge these groups leads to interpretations inconsistent with the rest of Scripture.

The primary group addressed were Hebrew Christians who suffered rejection and persecution by fellow Jews (10:32–34), although none as yet had been martyred (12:4). The letter was written to give them encouragement and confidence in Christ, their Messiah and High-Priest. They were an immature group of believers who were tempted to hold on to the symbolic and spiritually powerless rituals and traditions of Judaism.

The second group addressed were Jewish unbelievers who were convinced of the basic truths of the gospel but who had not placed their faith in Jesus Christ as their own Savior and Lord. They were intellectually persuaded but spiritually uncommitted. These unbelievers are addressed in such passages as 2:1–3; 6:4–6; 10:26–29; and 12:15–17.

The third group addressed were Jewish unbelievers who were not convinced of the gospel’s truth but had had some exposure to it. Chapter 9 is largely devoted to them (see especially vv. 11, 14, 15, 27, 28).

By far, the most serious interpretive challenge is found in 6:4–6. The phrase “once enlightened” is often taken to refer to Christians, and the accompanying warning taken to indicate the danger of losing their salvation if “they fall away” and “crucify again for themselves the Son of God.” But there is no mention of their being saved and they are not described with any terms that apply only to believers (such as holy, born again, righteous, or saints). This problem arises from inaccurately identifying the spiritual condition of the ones being addressed. In this case, they were unbelievers who had been exposed to God’s redemptive truth, and perhaps made a profession of faith, but had not exercised genuine saving faith. In 10:26, the reference once again is to apostate Christians, not to genuine believers who are often incorrectly thought to lose their salvation because of their sins.

An excellent post by KatyFollower on this verse

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/hebrews-6-4-6-not-at-it-seems.138679/

Taken in context and with ALL the verses that speak on salvation and the perfect tense GREEK verb....it is impossible for a believer to fall to the point that they must be renewed again to salvation....

Saved to the uttermost
Kept by the power of God
Sealed by the H.S. of promise
In the Father's hand and the Son's hand
Christ begins, finishes and completes the work of faith in us
Eternal and Everlasting as applied unto the FREE GIFT of life mean exactly that
Present continuing result from a past completed action <-Perfect tense Greek verb
Will LOSE nothing but raise it up the last day
Will Never leave nor forsake you
Born of INCORRUPTABLE seed
IRREVOCABLE GIFT

etc...

Never let any deceiver tell you that you can lose salvation or must do something to maintain it...it is based upon the completed work of Christ

Actually she is defending the truth.....of the which you seem to be lacking......

DEVIL from the BEGINNING and SON of PERDITION does not equal a saved man that lost it!

One of the key things in this passage is "fall away" this to me shows not a sin, a bad day, some rebellion but a complete rejection of Yahshua and His path. To this there is no recourse back to Yah according to this passage, but again this is not a sin, a bad day, some rebellion but a complete rejection of Yahshua and His path. Yah will guide us, chasten us, humble us, etc. People live in a fake church world where "God" is all fuzzy and everything is "rainbows and unicorns" look at the world that is not reailty, Yah can at times bring us low that we may hold unto Him as our strength in our weakness...

Hebrews 6:1-11,1 Therefore, having left the word of the beginning of the Messiah, let us go on to perfection,a not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of belief toward Elohim, Mat 5:48."2 of the teaching of immersions, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of everlasting judgment."3 And this we shall do, if Elohim indeed permits."4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Set-apart Spirit,"5 and have tasted the good Word of Elohim and the powers of the age to come,"6 and fall away, to renew them again to repentance – having impaled for themselves the Son of Elohim again, and put Him to open shame. Heb 10:26-31."7 For ground that is drinking the rain often falling on it, and is bearing plants fit for those by whom it is tilled, receives blessing from Elohim,"8 but if it brings forth thorns and thistles, Gen 3:18 it is rejected and near to being cursed, and ends up by being burned."9 But although we speak in this way, beloved, we are persuaded, concerning you, of better matters which possess deliverance."10 For Elohim is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love which you have shown toward His Name, in that you have attended to the set-apart ones, and still attend."11 And we desire that each one of you show the same eagerness, to the entire confirmation of expectation until the end,"

Ezekiel 18:20-32, “The being who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the crookedness of the father, nor the father bear the crookedness of the son. The righteousness of the righteous is upon himself, and the wrongness of the wrong is upon himself. But the wrong, if he turns from all his sins which he has done, and he shall guard all My laws, and shall do right-ruling and righteousness, he shall certainly live, he shall not die. All the transgressions which he has done shall not be remembered against him – in his righteousness that he has done, he shall live. Have I any pleasure in the death of the wrong?” declares the Master יהוה. “Is it not that he should turn from his ways, and live? But when a righteous one turns away from his righteousness and does unrighteousness, according to all the abominations that the wrong one has done, shall he live? All his righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered. For his trespass which he has committed, and for his sin which he has committed, for them he shall die. And you said, ‘The way of יהוה is not right.’ Hear now, O house of Yisra’yl, is My way not right? Is it not your ways that are not right? When a righteous one turns away from his righteousness, and does unrighteousness, and he dies in it, it is because of his unrighteousness which he has done that he dies. And when the wrong turns away from the wrong which he has done, and he does right-ruling and righteousness, he keeps himself alive. Because he sees and turns away from all the transgressions which he has done, he shall certainly live, he shall not die. And the house of Yisra’yl have said, ‘The way of יהוה is not right.’ Are My ways not right, O house of Yisra’yl? Is it not your ways that are not right? Therefore I judge you, O house of Yisra’yl, every one according to his ways,” declares the Master יהוה. “Repent, and turn back from all your transgressions, and let not crookedness be a stumbling-block to you. Cast away from you all the transgressions, by which you have transgressed, and make for yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Yisra’yl? For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” declares the Master יהוה. “So turn back and live!”

Contrast "fall away" with turn to or away from Yah as shown above.

Messiah seemed to think salvation and being saved is at the end, niot the moment we say words with our mouth...

Matthew 10:22, “And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.”

Matt 24:12-13, “And because of the increase in lawlessness, the love of many shall become cold. But he who shall have endured to the end shall be saved.”

Hebrews 10:36, “For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of Yah you may receive what is promised.”

1 Peter 1:3-9, “Blessed be the Strength and Father of our Master יהושע Messiah, who according to His great compassion has caused us to be born again to a living expectation through the resurrection of יהושע Messiah from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and unfading, having been kept in the heavens for you, who are protected by the power of Yah through belief, for a deliverance ready to be revealed in the last time, in which you exult, even though for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by manifold trials, in order that the proving of your belief – much more precious than gold that perishes, and proven by fire – might be found to result in praise and respect and esteem at the revelation of יהושע Messiah, whom having not seen, you love; in whom you exult with unspeakable and esteemed joy, yet not seeing, but believing, obtaining the goal of your belief: a deliverance of lives.”

We have not yet received it, we are on His path...

Hebrews 3:14, “For we have become partakers of Messiah if we hold fast the beginning of our trust firm to the end.”

Revelation 3:12, "He who overcomes, I will make a pillar in The House of My Father, and he will never go out of it. And I will write upon him the Name of My Father, and the Name of the New Yerusalem which comes down out of heaven from My Father, newly named."

James 1:12, "Blessed is the man who does endure trial, for when he has been proved, he shall receive the crown of life which the Master has promised to those who love Him."

THis is salvation:

Luke 21:28, “Now when these things begin to take place, straighten up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”

Mat:29-31, "Immediately, but after the tribulation of those days will the sun be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven; and then will all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His malakim with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of earth to the other."

Ezekiyl 48:35, "“All around: eighteen thousand cubits. And the name of the city from that day is: יהוה is there!” (In Hebrew: יהוה Shammah)

Revelation 21:3-4, "And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of YHWH is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and YHWH Himself will be with them, and be their Father. And YHWH will wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there will be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, nor will there be any more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

I am not saying it- God is , I simply do not question His purpose. This Romans verse you chose, I just put the full context. I am simply saying what is being spoken of here. God is speaking of His irrevocable gift given to Israel . To know what the Lord means by "All Israel will be saved " is to know who He calls Israel= ( Jacob) it is the House of Jacob to whom the irrevocable gift is given= TO BE SAVED. NOT ESAU.

Romans 9:13

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
All in Jacob (Israel) is the irrevocable gift of salvation.


Listen, I am a student of the Word . Part of being a child is being able to be humble enough to learn when one is wrong. I have been taught and edified by the Holy Spirit many times. I have no fear of being wrong, because My Lord will always correct me because I fear Him more than correction, as all should. Humility is the most important thing concerning growth and abiding. I do not walk around like PAPAL INFALLIBILITY is my doctrine.

The Way of Wisdom Proverbs 9:8-10
…8Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you; rebuke a wise man, and he will love you. 9Instruct a wise man, and he will be wiser still; teach a righteous man, and he will increase his learning. 10The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.…

I am no fool I do not mock when I am being shown a truth. I take it as a blessing. I have simply shown that one can reject their restoration and that is what the Hebrews OP verses state. I also supported that truth with another apostle's writings.

2Peter2:15-22
15They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Beor, who loved the wages of wickedness.

The straight way is the inner path to heaven the restoration state. You can leave the straight way. The straight way only Christ can establish everything is made straight through the RESTORATION. To leave it is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit- this is like the fallen angels who knew God and truth, and chose evil. That is why St. Peter talks about how God did not spare the angels and will not spare anyone else who does the very same thing.

That is what Hebrews is saying 6:4-6
4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age— 6and THEN have fallen away—to be restored AGAIN to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame.
CRUCIFYING THE SON OF GOD ALL OVER AGAIN. This is pretty clear
2Peter 2 continued:
16But he was rebuked for his transgression by a donkey, otherwise without speech, that spoke with a man’s voice and restrained the prophet’s madness.
THE VERDICT:
17These men are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. 18With lofty but empty words, they appeal to the sensual passions of the flesh and entice those who are just escaping from others who live in error. 19They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves to corruption. For a man is a slave to whatever has overcome him.

20If indeed they have escaped the corruption of the world through their knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, ONLY to be entangled and overcome by it AGAIN, their final condition is worse than it was at first. 21It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and turned away from the holy commandment passed on to them. 22Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,”f and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.”

You can give up your salvation for sure and many have. But if you truly love Christ NO ONE CAN TAKE IT FROM YOU. No one can TAKE YOU from the Love within Christ Jesus. When you choose to stay in love with Him ,no one will convince you otherwise. God Bless!

So does this mean for example me as a child I was brought up in a believing home accepted Christ but in my teens I fell into rebellion and lived sinful, I still believed in Christ but was not walking with Him.
Does this still mean I cannot be saved?

Now I Feel I am truly trying to walk with Him, I read and try to understand the Bible. I do feel like I have changed, I am very regretful and repent and cry for all the sins of my past... I even felt called to be baptized.

Am I what the author of Hebrews is talking about?

AND.....IRREVOCABLE..........of course they reject this word....it does not fit their weak god and the loseable salvation that he peddles....<---RELIGION'S god that is

So does this mean for example me as a child I was brought up in a believing home accepted Christ but in my teens I fell into rebellion and lived sinful, I still believed in Christ but was not walking with Him.
Does this still mean I cannot be saved?

Now I Feel I am truly trying to walk with Him, I read and try to understand the Bible. I do feel like I have changed, I am very regretful and repent and cry for all the sins of my past... I even felt called to be baptized.

Am I what the author of Hebrews is talking about?