OSAS= House Built on Sand

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notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
Patting a hell bound sinner on the back is not love, shouting at him to repent is love. The world is full of false Christians who embrace ever vile sin, in order to be accepted by the wicked. My Bible tells me it's the opposite, it tells me sinners are the ones who need to conform to the Gospel.

Yes I know the Gospel is highly offensive to everyone except for the true believers, we go out on the street and confront sinners with the harsh truth of the Gospel. We don't win many over for Christ, but it's not our job to win hearts for Christ, our job is to proclaim the awful truth to a hell bound fallen world.
It is your job to be a witness for Christ. Yelling at folks and telling them they are hell bound is not going to be a good witness. Yelling at folks and calling them hell bound sinners just puts you in the Westboro church mode.

You are exhibiting classic Calvinist arrogant and condescending charisterics not the compassionate gospel message of the NT. It is your calling to witness for Christ that you might point lost souls to Christ. Paul wrote to the church at Corinth that the number one thing he was to have was love for the lost. Without love he was going to sound like tinkling brass.

You will never see me condoning sin in another mans life but you will also not see me kicking a sinner in the teeth because he is a poor lost sinner. Until you understand the difference you will be of no use to the Lord.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
Our pastor teaches us to do it differently, he tells us to convict the people of their sins. So the first thing we do is ask them if they think they are a good person, they usually say something like "well I try to be the best I can be, but sometimes I make mistakes". We then explain that God has much higher expectations of us and if we don't live up to them, He will punish us by casting us into hell.

Once we explain that everyone falls short and that's why Jesus came into the world, they either stay and listen or they just walk away saying that's your religion I'm an Atheist or Buddhist or Muslim or whatever. We don't waste any more time on those people, we concentrate on the one who continues to listen.

We have found that around 95% of people who claim to believe in Jesus, don't like the Jesus we present. They all love the softly spoken pretty boy Jesus but they don't like the one who casts sinners into hell to burn.
Tell your preacher that only the Holy Spirit can convict a man about his sin. We are to preach the word of God and trust the Holy Spirit to minister in the heart. Never underestimate the power of Gods word to work in the heart of sinner and saint alike. Often times things said or things done are used of God to speak to hearts in ways we never conceived.

The gospel is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes. There is no power of man that can replace the power of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
shouting at him to repent is love
Who did Jesus shout at?

Do you equate everyday lost people with the Pharisees?

Your type of evangelism, and we have many up in my neck of the woods, will work on those who are often self-loathing and their supposed conversion in this system typically allows them to transfer their self-loathing to loathing to others ......all done with a self-righteous attitude.
 
Aug 16, 2018
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Our pastor teaches us to do it differently, he tells us to convict the people of their sins. So the first thing we do is ask them if they think they are a good person, they usually say something like "well I try to be the best I can be, but sometimes I make mistakes". We then explain that God has much higher expectations of us and if we don't live up to them, He will punish us by casting us into hell.

Once we explain that everyone falls short and that's why Jesus came into the world, they either stay and listen or they just walk away saying that's your religion I'm an Atheist or Buddhist or Muslim or whatever. We don't waste any more time on those people, we concentrate on the one who continues to listen.

We have found that around 95% of people who claim to believe in Jesus, don't like the Jesus we present. They all love the softly spoken pretty boy Jesus but they don't like the one who casts sinners into hell to burn.
You should leave that church.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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christian means Christ-like thank you
you aren't Christ-like, either.

Appears to me you're "my pastor"-like because all of your responses to sound Scriptural doctrine are "my pastor says ..." with absolutely no Scripture to back up whatever it is you claim your "pastor" says.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,614
9,127
113
Patting a hell bound sinner on the back is not love, shouting at him to repent is love. The world is full of false Christians who embrace ever vile sin, in order to be accepted by the wicked. My Bible tells me it's the opposite, it tells me sinners are the ones who need to conform to the Gospel.

Yes I know the Gospel is highly offensive to everyone except for the true believers, we go out on the street and confront sinners with the harsh truth of the Gospel. We don't win many over for Christ, but it's not our job to win hearts for Christ, our job is to proclaim the awful truth to a hell bound fallen world.
Why would you shout and point out the sin of a spitually dead person? That person is NOT going to respond to that.

You need to deliver the Gospel with Love, and if necessary use words. By that I mean show them what Christ has done for you.Tell them how He gave you a new heart, and that you love them with your new heart. If you shout and point at their sin, they are going to think "yeah, I need Christianity like a hole in the head!"
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Why would you shout and point out the sin of a spitually dead person? That person is NOT going to respond to that.

You need to deliver the Gospel with Love, and if necessary use words. By that I mean show them what Christ has done for you.Tell them how He gave you a new heart, and that you love them with your new heart. If you shout and point at their sin, they are going to think "yeah, I need Christianity like a hole in the head!"

Amen and Amen!!!
 
Aug 16, 2018
137
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Patting a hell bound sinner on the back is not love, shouting at him to repent is love. The world is full of false Christians who embrace ever vile sin, in order to be accepted by the wicked. My Bible tells me it's the opposite, it tells me sinners are the ones who need to conform to the Gospel.

Yes I know the Gospel is highly offensive to everyone except for the true believers, we go out on the street and confront sinners with the harsh truth of the Gospel. We don't win many over for Christ, but it's not our job to win hearts for Christ, our job is to proclaim the awful truth to a hell bound fallen world.
The Bible tells me we are to spread the Gospel and when necessary use words.

A pastor that screams his sermons is a fool who is not in Christ and does not realize no one comes to Christ unless the Father draws them.
Screaming isn't going to overwhelm that Heaven sent fact.

Those congregants who still have their hearing need to run from that church. It's being pastored by a demon leading them straight to Hell.
Proof of that is when he tells his congregation they need to convict people of their sins.
That's not scripture. God convicts people of their sins.

If this is your church you should be aware you're listening to a fraud in the pulpit. For the love of Christ, LEAVE!
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,674
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Our pastor teaches us to do it differently, he tells us to convict the people of their sins.
We are not instructed to "convict". The Comforter convicts:

John 16:

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I go, I will send him unto you.

8 And he, when he is come, will convict the world in respect of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment



We are instructed to preach the gospel of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Do you know what the gospel of Christ is? Have you been taught the gospel of Christ?





 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
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Titus 3:5 He saved us not by works of righteousness which we had done, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration, and by the renewing of the Holy Ghost,


THE RIHTEOUSNEßS OF THE JEWS WAS THROUGH THE LAW.


Deuteronomy 6:24-25 The Lord commanded us to obey all these decrees and to fear the Lord our God, so that we might always prosper and be kept alive, as is the case today. And if we are careful to obey all this law before the Lord our God, as he has commanded us, THAT WILL BE OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.”


THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRISTIANS (NEW CREATION/MAN) IS THROUGH FAITH.


Romans 9:30-32 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, A RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT IS BY FAITH; but ISRAEL, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it NOT BY FAITH but as if it were by works. THEY stumbled over the “stumbling stone.”


IF YOU ARE A JEW WHOSE RIGHTEOUSNESS IS THROUGH THE LAW ….IT IS "NOT BY WORKS".(ephesians 2:8-deuteronomy 6:24-25)

WHETHER YOU'RE A GENTILE OR A JEW, IF YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS IS THROUGH FAITH , YOU ARE;

..God's workmanship created in
Christ Jesus TO DO GOOD WORKS which He has PREPARED IN ADVANCE FOR US TO DO . ( ephesians 2:10)



“NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAD DONE" REFERS TO THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE JEWS WHICH WAS THROUGH THE LAW. (titus 3:5, eph 2:8-9)


PAUL’S QUESTION IS:


Romans 3:31 Do we, then, NULLIFY the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.


HE ALSO SAID,


2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and iF I HAVE FAITH that can move mountains, BUT DO NOT HAVE LOVE, I AM NOTHING.


13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. BUT THE GREATEST OF THESE IS LOVE.


Romans 3:3-4 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith NULLIFY God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”


GOD PUTS AND WRITES THE LAW IN OUR HEARTS AND MINDS.


Hebrews 8:10 This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.


Hebrews 10:16 “This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”


...NOT JUST TO THE JEWS WHO WERE CIRCUMCISED IN THE FLESH BUT ALSO TO THOSE WHO WERE CIRCUMCISED IN THE HEART.


Romans 2:28-29 A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is CIRCUMCISION OF THE HEART, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise is not from men, but from God.


AND CHRISTIANS ARE ABLE TO FULFILL AND UPHOLD THE LAW IN THEIR HEARTS AND MINDS BECAUSE OF THE LOVE THAT WAS POURED INTO THEIR HEARTS.


Romans 5:5 And hope does not disappoint us, because GOD HAS POURED OUT HIS LOVE INTO OUR HEARTS by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.


AND THEREFORE, “LOVE IS THE FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW.”(romans 13:10)


galatians 6

2 Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.


1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.


1 John 5:2-3 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,


2 John 1:6 AND THIS IS LOVE; THAT WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE.


Romans 10:9-10 That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your HEART that you BELIEVE and are JUSTIFIED, and it is with your MOUTH that you CONFESS and are SAVED.


1 John 3:18 Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but WITH ACTIONS AND IN TRUTH.


Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be FULLY MET IN US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.


John 14:15 “IF YOU LOVE ME, YOU WILL OBEY WHAT I COMMAND.”


Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?


26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD also.


17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18how that they told you THERE SHOULD BE MOCKERS IN THE LAST TIME, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19These be they who separate themselves, sensual, HAVING NOT THE SPIRIT.


15Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16 THEY PROFESS THAT THEY KNOW GOD; but IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM, being ABOMINABLE, and DISOBEDIENT, and unto every good work REPROBATE.


13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, BE SOBER, and HOPE TO THE END FOR THE GRACE that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 AS OBEDIENT CHILDREN, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15 but as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16 because it is written, BE YE HOLY; FOR I AM HOLY.


OBEDIENCE LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH LEADS TO HOLINESS AND THE RESULT IS ETERNAL LIFE. (romans 6:16-23)
 
Dec 12, 2013
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It is your job to be a witness for Christ. Yelling at folks and telling them they are hell bound is not going to be a good witness. Yelling at folks and calling them hell bound sinners just puts you in the Westboro church mode.

You are exhibiting classic Calvinist arrogant and condescending charisterics not the compassionate gospel message of the NT. It is your calling to witness for Christ that you might point lost souls to Christ. Paul wrote to the church at Corinth that the number one thing he was to have was love for the lost. Without love he was going to sound like tinkling brass.

You will never see me condoning sin in another mans life but you will also not see me kicking a sinner in the teeth because he is a poor lost sinner. Until you understand the difference you will be of no use to the Lord.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
AMEN...one of the most evangelistic books of the bible does not even mention hell.....Hell was not made for man and God would have all men come to the knowledge of the truth <---YES I KNOW, most won't!
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
4,114
965
113
My Bible tells me that God hates the sinner and the sin, because the sinner is sin. I am like Christ now (who is God) so I am already like God but living in a corrupt body of sin, so I will continue to sin until I die.

I will never shed a tear for my lost family members, why? because I will become fully like Christ when I receive my perfect sinless body. I will then hate sin and sinners just as much as God does, so when I see my family members being cast into the lake of fire I will rejoice that justice is being served.

I will not remember the emotions I felt in this life, God will give me a new mind and I will not remember my unsaved family members as being my brothers or parents. I will see them as any other reprobate deserving eternal torment in hell.

I think you should learn what Gods Word teaches on this topic, before you allow your fallen sinful nature to form a perverted view of who God is and why He does what he does.
Umm sounds creepy for me but the idea is just to tell folks are sinners just like you and me. And tell them that as sinners, is the reason why Jesus came and they need to know that Jesus alone can save them. The rich man at hell remember his family. Even Paul desire that his brethren will be save but how come we will not do the same?
 
Aug 16, 2018
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My Bible tells me that God hates the sinner and the sin, because the sinner is sin. I am like Christ now (who is God) so I am already like God but living in a corrupt body of sin, so I will continue to sin until I die.

I will never shed a tear for my lost family members, why? because I will become fully like Christ when I receive my perfect sinless body. I will then hate sin and sinners just as much as God does, so when I see my family members being cast into the lake of fire I will rejoice that justice is being served.

I will not remember the emotions I felt in this life, God will give me a new mind and I will not remember my unsaved family members as being my brothers or parents. I will see them as any other reprobate deserving eternal torment in hell.

I think you should learn what Gods Word teaches on this topic, before you allow your fallen sinful nature to form a perverted view of who God is and why He does what he does.
By the read of it it is your church, your pastor, and your view that you've arrived at due to the aforementioned two causes, that have perverted your view of everything pertaining to God and the faith.

You presume quite a lot about the same God you paint in a very warped light.

God hates sinners?
Christians are in the new covenant, not the old.

Read John 3:16.
Not for nothing, but you're not even close to knowing what it is to be in the faith of Christ. You're in the cult of your pastors leading. RUN!
While you still have life to make that choice.
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
724
122
43
Oh so this is in the next life then.

Okay, that just makes it more strange :unsure:
Nothing strange about it, your dirty deeds will be exposed in the next life. Then I will hate you or love you, depending on your works during this life. All will be exposed and nothing hidden
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
724
122
43
It is your job to be a witness for Christ. Yelling at folks and telling them they are hell bound is not going to be a good witness. Yelling at folks and calling them hell bound sinners just puts you in the Westboro church mode.

You are exhibiting classic Calvinist arrogant and condescending charisterics not the compassionate gospel message of the NT. It is your calling to witness for Christ that you might point lost souls to Christ. Paul wrote to the church at Corinth that the number one thing he was to have was love for the lost. Without love he was going to sound like tinkling brass.

You will never see me condoning sin in another mans life but you will also not see me kicking a sinner in the teeth because he is a poor lost sinner. Until you understand the difference you will be of no use to the Lord.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
We are only seeking the elect, they are the only ones who will respond when they hear the Gospel. We are not about casting our pearls before swine as your mob does.
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
724
122
43
Who did Jesus shout at?

Do you equate everyday lost people with the Pharisees?

Your type of evangelism, and we have many up in my neck of the woods, will work on those who are often self-loathing and their supposed conversion in this system typically allows them to transfer their self-loathing to loathing to others ......all done with a self-righteous attitude.
it all depends on which Gospel you choose to believe, we know there are at least a 1000 gospels so it all comes down to choosing one that suits your particular political persuasion. Your gospel is foolishness to me and mine is foolishness to you, nothing personal here. The Church is divided into thousands of denominations because everyone has their own gospel o_O