Did God give people sin?

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thatfizzyguy

Guest
#1
I'm having this discussion on another site and wondered what you all thought.
Basically a guy is saying that God created everything so he gave sin to us using the scriptures of Romans 26-27 of how God gives people over to sin yet he interprets this as God giving people sin.
Please feel free to answer what your view point is on this.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,920
9,668
113
#2
Welp.. He created Lucifer, who rebelled and was cast out of heaven, to become satan. He allowed it to happen in heaven, just as He allowed it into the Garden, and as He allows it to happen on earth.

As far as giving us sin, well.... I'd say he allows it into our lives to accomplish His purposes.

JMO
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,357
13,723
113
#3
God giving someone over to sin is essentially Him saying, "Well, that's the way you've chosen, and you want nothing to do with Me. So, I allow you your free choice. Bye!"

That is massively different that God "giving people sin". Adam chose to disobey God. We all inherited the sinful nature--the natural tendency to rebel against God in sinful actions--as a result.
 
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thatfizzyguy

Guest
#4
God giving someone over to sin is essentially Him saying, "Well, that's the way you've chosen, and you want nothing to do with Me. So, I allow you your free choice. Bye!"

That is massively different that God "giving people sin". Adam chose to disobey God. We all inherited the sinful nature--the natural tendency to rebel against God in sinful actions--as a result.
That's exactly what I believe oh and a new development the guy is pretty much calling me an anti christ now it all started with me saying gay is an abomination to God, him disagreeing and the kicker is that his username is giant A whole(actual user name is different) yet he's basically tried to lecture me and say I haven't read the bible.
After back and forth with him proving him wrong he now has suggested that I'm an antichrist.
 
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thatfizzyguy

Guest
#5
Welp.. He created Lucifer, who rebelled and was cast out of heaven, to become satan. He allowed it to happen in heaven, just as He allowed it into the Garden, and as He allows it to happen on earth.

As far as giving us sin, well.... I'd say he allows it into our lives to accomplish His purposes.

JMO
A good well thought out answer.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#6
That's exactly what I believe oh and a new development the guy is pretty much calling me an anti christ now it all started with me saying gay is an abomination to God, him disagreeing and the kicker is that his username is giant A whole(actual user name is different) yet he's basically tried to lecture me and say I haven't read the bible.
After back and forth with him proving him wrong he now has suggested that I'm an antichrist.
He obviously has an agenda to uphold.

People become what they believe, when they believe wrongly and it is tied to their identity, it can be a nasty thing when they are shown they are wrong.

I agree with Dino :)
 
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thatfizzyguy

Guest
#7
He obviously has an agenda to uphold.

People become what they believe, when they believe wrongly and it is tied to their identity, it can be a nasty thing when they are shown they are wrong.

I agree with Dino :)
Yeah and I just can't help retorting people who believe that way.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#8
Yeah and I just can't help retorting people who believe that way.
For sure, he needed to be told and you just never know where, what you said to him will land in his heart and mind.

We can always hope!!
 
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thatfizzyguy

Guest
#9
For sure, he needed to be told and you just never know where, what you said to him will land in his heart and mind.

We can always hope!!
Yeah just maybe I mean it really ended up basically just us talking back and forth about being right when of course God's right.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
16,724
10,531
113
78
Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#10
Hi there fizzyguy. Did God give people sin? First let's ask : Did God create sin? In a way, He did. God defines sin. The original sin was choosing right from wrong for ourselves. Just like Satan did. Satan said why is such and such evil, just because God said it was.

God know the final outcome of everything and sin has consequences. Our best bet is to trust God to define what is good and what is evil and reap the benefits of a positive outcome. God does not give us sin, we are born into it. Sooner or later we will try evil. That is why Jesus is our escape clause. :cool:
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#11
James 1:12-18, “Blessed is the man who does endure trial, for when he has been proved, he shall receive the crown of life which the Master has promised to those who love Him. Let no one say when he is enticed, “I am enticed by Yah,” for Yah is not enticed by evil matters, and He entices no one. But each one is enticed when he is drawn away by his own desires and trapped. hen, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin. And sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death. Do not go astray, my beloved brothers. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of light, with whom there is no change, nor shadow of turning. Having purposed it, He brought us forth by the Word of truth, for us to be a kind of first-fruits of His creatures.”

James 4:7-10, “So then subject yourselves to Yah. Resist the adversary and he shall flee from you. Draw near to Yah and He shall draw near to you. Cleanse hands, sinners. And cleanse the hearts, you double-minded! Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to dejection. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Master, and He shall lift you up."

1 John 5:4, “because everyone having been born of Yah overcomes the world. And this is the overcoming has overcome the world: our belief.”


Genesis 4:6-7 “YHWH said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why has the expression of your face fallen? If you do well, will it not be lifted up? If you don’t do well, sin crouches at the door. Its desire is for you, but you are to rule over it.”

Proverbs 4:14, “Do not enter the path of the wrong, and do not walk in the way of evil-doers.”

Proverbs 18:24, "A man of too many friends comes to ruin, But there is a friend who sticks closer than a brother."



Proverbs 12:26, "The righteous is a guide to his neighbor, But the way of the wicked leads them astray."

James 4:4-5, “Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with the Mighty One? Whoever therefore intends to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of Yah. Or do you think that the Scripture speaks to no purpose? Does the Spirit which dwells in us intensely crave unto envy?"

Mat 26:41, “Watch and pray, lest you enter into trial. The spirit indeed is eager, but the flesh is weak.”
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#12
Psalm 1:1-6, 1, "Blessed is the man who shall not walk in the counsel of the wrong, And shall not stand in the path of sinners, And shall not sit in the seat of scoffers, But his delight is in the Torah (Instruction) of יהוה, And he meditates in His Torah (Instruction) day and night. For he shall be as a tree Planted by the rivers of water, That yields its fruit in its season, And whose leaf does not wither, And whatever he does prospers. The wrong are not so, But are like the chaff which the wind blows away. Therefore the wrong shall not rise in the judgment, Nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. For יהוה knows the way of the righteous, But the way of the wrong comes to naught."
Psalm 1:1-6, 1, "Blessed is the man who shall not walk in the counsel of the wrong, And shall not stand in the path of sinners, And shall not sit in the seat of scoffers, But his delight is in the Torah (Instruction) of יהוה, And he meditates in His Torah (Instruction) day and night. For he shall be as a tree Planted by the rivers of water, That yields its fruit in its season, And whose leaf does not wither, And whatever he does prospers. The wrong are not so, But are like the chaff which the wind blows away. Therefore the wrong shall not rise in the judgment, Nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. For יהוה knows the way of the righteous, But the way of the wrong comes to naught."
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
#13
Sin is the consequence of our fallen nature acquired from Adam....it was not given by God....

a. God's very nature makes it impossible for him to SIN
b. God cannot lie
c. God is 100% righteous and Holy

Do not confuse a consequence for something given.......God did not create SIN and or apply it to man....the bible is clear....Lucifer "Satan" was perfect in the day he was created until SIN was FOUND "NOT GIVEN" in him <---the sin of PRIDE and wanting to lift himself up above God as God....

The absolute truth....SIN ultimately can be boiled down to self rule.....doing what we want to do while disregarding God and his will....in essence when we reject the word and walk contrary we are dethroning God and enthroning or lifting up self....
 
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thatfizzyguy

Guest
#15
Sin is the consequence of our fallen nature acquired from Adam....it was not given by God....

a. God's very nature makes it impossible for him to SIN
b. God cannot lie
c. God is 100% righteous and Holy

Do not confuse a consequence for something given.......God did not create SIN and or apply it to man....the bible is clear....Lucifer "Satan" was perfect in the day he was created until SIN was FOUND "NOT GIVEN" in him <---the sin of PRIDE and wanting to lift himself up above God as God....

The absolute truth....SIN ultimately can be boiled down to self rule.....doing what we want to do while disregarding God and his will....in essence when we reject the word and walk contrary we are dethroning God and enthroning or lifting up self....
Yeah that's what I figured some people just obviously want to confound me but, I'm still holding to truth.
Also the wise guy that challenged all I posted after calling me an antichrist has not posted since, what a surprise.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#16
Yeah that's what I figured some people just obviously want to confound me but, I'm still holding to truth.
Also the wise guy that challenged all I posted after calling me an antichrist has not posted since, what a surprise.
My intent was to provide Scripture so you could decide for yourself.

James 1:12-18, “Blessed is the man who does endure trial, for when he has been proved, he shall receive the crown of life which the Master has promised to those who love Him. Let no one say when he is enticed, “I am enticed by Yah,” for Yah is not enticed by evil matters, and He entices no one. But each one is enticed when he is drawn away by his own desires and trapped. hen, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin. And sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death. Do not go astray, my beloved brothers. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of light, with whom there is no change, nor shadow of turning. Having purposed it, He brought us forth by the Word of truth, for us to be a kind of first-fruits of His creatures.”

James 4:7-10, “So then subject yourselves to Yah. Resist the adversary and he shall flee from you. Draw near to Yah and He shall draw near to you. Cleanse hands, sinners. And cleanse the hearts, you double-minded! Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to dejection. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Master, and He shall lift you up."

1 John 5:4, “because everyone having been born of Yah overcomes the world. And this is the overcoming has overcome the world: our belief.”


Genesis 4:6-7 “YHWH said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why has the expression of your face fallen? If you do well, will it not be lifted up? If you don’t do well, sin crouches at the door. Its desire is for you, but you are to rule over it.”

Proverbs 4:14, “Do not enter the path of the wrong, and do not walk in the way of evil-doers.”

Proverbs 18:24, "A man of too many friends comes to ruin, But there is a friend who sticks closer than a brother."



Proverbs 12:26, "The righteous is a guide to his neighbor, But the way of the wicked leads them astray."

James 4:4-5, “Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with the Mighty One? Whoever therefore intends to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of Yah. Or do you think that the Scripture speaks to no purpose? Does the Spirit which dwells in us intensely crave unto envy?"

Mat 26:41, “Watch and pray, lest you enter into trial. The spirit indeed is eager, but the flesh is weak.”
Psalm 1:1-6, 1, "Blessed is the man who shall not walk in the counsel of the wrong, And shall not stand in the path of sinners, And shall not sit in the seat of scoffers, But his delight is in the Torah (Instruction) of יהוה, And he meditates in His Torah (Instruction) day and night. For he shall be as a tree Planted by the rivers of water, That yields its fruit in its season, And whose leaf does not wither, And whatever he does prospers. The wrong are not so, But are like the chaff which the wind blows away. Therefore the wrong shall not rise in the judgment, Nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. For יהוה knows the way of the righteous, But the way of the wrong comes to naught."
 
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thatfizzyguy

Guest
#17
Hi there fizzyguy. Did God give people sin? First let's ask : Did God create sin? In a way, He did. God defines sin. The original sin was choosing right from wrong for ourselves. Just like Satan did. Satan said why is such and such evil, just because God said it was.

God know the final outcome of everything and sin has consequences. Our best bet is to trust God to define what is good and what is evil and reap the benefits of a positive outcome. God does not give us sin, we are born into it. Sooner or later we will try evil. That is why Jesus is our escape clause. :cool:
Yep that was my whole point with the guy because the first sin regarding Humanity was in the form if the tree of good and evil sin wasn't given but, rather forbidden.
 
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thatfizzyguy

Guest
#18
My intent was to provide Scripture so you could decide for yourself.
Thank you I didn't see your posts at first notifications aren't doing so good...
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,770
113
#19
Basically a guy is saying that God created everything so he gave sin to us...
Just tell this person that God gave man free will, not "sin". Free will meant that Adam and Eve could either obey God or disobey Him. They chose to disobey and paid for it (as did the human race).
 
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thatfizzyguy

Guest
#20
Just tell this person that God gave man free will, not "sin". Free will meant that Adam and Eve could either obey God or disobey Him. They chose to disobey and paid for it (as did the human race).
Well he hasn't responded anymore so I'll just leave him be no use in explaining to someone who is determined not to accept correction.