Does God love all mankind and does He wish to save everyone

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rstrats

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2011
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ForestGreenCook,
re: "I thought I answered your question. You ask 'Does he have that knowledge before he created man?' And my answer was 'He has All foreknowledge'"

I didn't know if that meant the He has all foreknowledge before He creates a person or if it is only after He creates the person.
And BTW, you misquoted me.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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As revealed in Rom 1:18, man suppresses the truth in unrighteousness.

Adam and Eve rejected the truth in unrighteousness;

Cain rejected the truth in unrighteousness; etc. etc.

Abel did not suppress the truth in unrighteousness; Seth did not suppress the truth in unrighteousness; Noah did not suppress the truth in unrighteousness; etc. etc.

You limit the power of God. You do not believe the sacrifice of His Son was sufficient. However, Scripture tells us He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2).
I would like to restate my question and ask, How can man reject God in his desire to save him eternally when man has nothing to do with choosing eternal salvation? We are saved eternally by God's grace and that not of ourselves lest any man should boast. Are you boasting? The only ones that can suppress the truth are the ones that have the imputed righteousness of Christ, in which, the natural man does not have. I do believe that Jesus's sacrifice was sufficient in that he saved all that he died for without the loss of even one. You are affirming that his sacrifice was not sufficient in that you say he died for all mankind and could not save all of them. You do not correctly divide the different salvation scriptures and you do not correctly divide the whole elect world from the whole world of its inhabitants.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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ForestGreenCook,
re: "I thought I answered your question. You ask 'Does he have that knowledge before he created man?' And my answer was 'He has All foreknowledge'"

I didn't know if that meant the He has all foreknowledge before He creates a person or if it is only after He creates the person.
And BTW, you misquoted me.
Before.
 

rstrats

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2011
748
43
28
ForestGreenCook,
re: "Before."

OK, thanks. So if the supreme being knows before He creates a person that He will eventually be tossing the person into the lake of fire, why do you suppose He goes ahead and creates the person anyway?
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
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ForestGreenCook,
re: "Before."

OK, thanks. So if the supreme being knows before He creates a person that He will eventually be tossing the person into the lake of fire, why do you suppose He goes ahead and creates the person anyway?
That is a good question. I don't know. I have a lot of questions as to why God does and does not do many things. Rom 11:33, O the depths of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
 
Mar 23, 2016
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You are affirming that his sacrifice was not sufficient in that you say he died for all mankind and could not save all of them.
I have stated before and I will state again: The sacrifice of Jesus was sufficient to cover the sins of ALL mankind. The reason some will find themselves cast into the lake of fire is because they reject God's all sufficient and abundant grace, mercy, lovingkindness.



 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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ForestGreenCook,
re: "Before."

OK, thanks. So if the supreme being knows before He creates a person that He will eventually be tossing the person into the lake of fire, why do you suppose He goes ahead and creates the person anyway?
Rom 11:33-34.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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I have stated before and I will state again: The sacrifice of Jesus was sufficient to cover the sins of ALL mankind. The reason some will find themselves cast into the lake of fire is because they reject God's all sufficient and abundant grace, mercy, lovingkindness.
If God accomplishes all of his will, and he does, you are saying that it was not his will to save all mankind, else he would have. Your belief is contradicting scriptures. All scriptures must harmonize or you do not understand the doctrine of Jesus. You are saying that the sacrifice of Jesus was sufficient to cover the sins of all mankind yet the sin of rejection is what sent them to hell. Woops! I guess his sacrifice was not sufficient to cover the sin of rejection. All scripture must harmonize or you do not understand the doctrine of Jesus.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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If God accomplishes all of his will, and he does, you are saying that it was not his will to save all mankind, else he would have. Your belief is contradicting scriptures. All scriptures must harmonize or you do not understand the doctrine of Jesus. You are saying that the sacrifice of Jesus was sufficient to cover the sins of all mankind yet the sin of rejection is what sent them to hell. Woops! I guess his sacrifice was not sufficient to cover the sin of rejection. All scripture must harmonize or you do not understand the doctrine of Jesus.
I already addressed this issue when I posted about Sections 6 , 7, 8, 9, and 10 of the following article (starting with the Section named "The Two Goats of Leviticus 16"). I'm afraid it is you who is not harmonizing Scripture...

http://biblecentre.org/content.php?mode=7&item=892



Note also 2Cor5:14-15 -

"...that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again."

"He died for all" but "they which live" are not "all"
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
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I already addressed this issue when I posted about Sections 6 , 7, 8, 9, and 10 of the following article (starting with the Section named "The Two Goats of Leviticus 16"). I'm afraid it is you who is not harmonizing Scripture...

http://biblecentre.org/content.php?mode=7&item=892



Note also 2Cor5:14-15 -

"...that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again."

"He died for all" but "they which live" are not "all"
In reference to 2 Cor 5:14-15 - The one that died for all was Adam causing all to be dead. But they which live, the elect, should live unto him, Jesus, which died for them, and rose again. I direct your attention to Rom 5:15. The scape goat in leviticus is Jesus who died for many, the elect, not all mankind.
 
Great question. That has a yes and no answer and all found in the bible.
Really , who can say they know the mind of God? Only that they read what are the words of God.
Ezekiel 18:23

I got this from a site I found and wanted to share here. https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/does-god-really-desire-all-to-be-saved
This backs up what I said about the question has a yes and no answer in the scriptures themselves.
  1. God desires that all sinners be saved (1 Timothy 2:4; 2 Peter 3:9; Ezekiel 18:23; Matthew 23:37).
  2. God chose some people from eternity past (the elect), to be saved unconditionally, and only those elect will genuinely respond to the gospel and be saved (Matthew 22:14; John 6:37, 44, 65; 8:47; 10:26–29; Romans 8:29–30; 9:6–23; 11:5–10; 1 Corinthians 1:26–30; Ephesians 1:4–5; 1 Thessalonians 1:4; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; James 2:5).
 
Mar 23, 2016
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you are saying that it was not his will to save all mankind
Nope. That's your line …

Scripture tells us that it is God's desire that ALL men be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth.




ForestGreenCook said:
All scriptures must harmonize or you do not understand the doctrine of Jesus. You are saying that the sacrifice of Jesus was sufficient to cover the sins of all mankind yet the sin of rejection is what sent them to hell. Woops! I guess his sacrifice was not sufficient to cover the sin of rejection. All scripture must harmonize or you do not understand the doctrine of Jesus.
All Scripture does harmonize and Scripture does tell us about the unforgiveable sin.


 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,158
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Scripture tells us that it is God's desire that ALL men be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Calvinists don't like that Scripture verse. They say it makes God weak and a loser. Some even say liar. Imagine! They call God and God's Word a lie.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,158
30,306
113
ForestGreenCook,
re: "I thought I answered your question. You ask 'Does he have that knowledge before he created man?' And my answer was 'He has All foreknowledge'"

I didn't know if that meant the He has all foreknowledge before He creates a person or if it is only after He creates the person.
And BTW, you misquoted me.
He knows the end from the beginning :) Isaiah 46:

8
“Remember this, and show yourselves men;
Recall to mind, O you transgressors.
9
Remember the former things of old,
For I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like Me,
10
Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
And I will do all My pleasure,’
11
Calling a bird of prey from the east,
The man who executes My counsel, from a far country.
Indeed I have spoken it;
I will also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it;
I will also do it.
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,674
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Calvinists don't like that Scripture verse. They say it makes God weak and a loser. Some even say liar. Imagine! They call God and God's Word a lie.
I know. Unbelievable what is passed off as "rightly dividing" God's Word.

ForestGreenCook has gone so far as to insist that those spoken of in Romans 1:18-32 are not unbelievers (as revealed in the text). According to ForestGreenCook, these are "disobedient children of God" :sneaky::sick::cry:o_O:rolleyes::eek::(


 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
I already addressed this issue when I posted about Sections 6 , 7, 8, 9, and 10 of the following article (starting with the Section named "The Two Goats of Leviticus 16"). I'm afraid it is you who is not harmonizing Scripture...

http://biblecentre.org/content.php?mode=7&item=892



Note also 2Cor5:14-15 -

"...that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again."

"He died for all" but "they which live" are not "all"
Adam died for all to sin, Jesus died for many which is the elect.. Jesus did not die for all mankind.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
I know. Unbelievable what is passed off as "rightly dividing" God's Word.

ForestGreenCook has gone so far as to insist that those spoken of in Romans 1:18-32 are not unbelievers (as revealed in the text). According to ForestGreenCook, these are "disobedient children of God" :sneaky::sick::cry:o_O:rolleyes::eek::(
Thanks for restating that. You are helping me spread the truth.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,158
30,306
113
Adam died for all to sin, Jesus died for many which is the elect.. Jesus did not die for all mankind.
Jesus’ death is sufficient for all, but only effectual for those who have faith.

Scripture states that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,923
2,118
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"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."


This is "propitiation".

"Substitition" (the other goat on the Day of Atonement) is another thing altogether.