Does God love all mankind and does He wish to save everyone

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ForestGreenCook

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Much like Adam's fall only made MANY sinners?

Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

No that idea does not work. Christ died for ALL, the world, every man (hebrews 2:9, john 3:16, 1 john 2:2).

If Christ did not die for all, you cannot preach the gospel with sincerity. You cannot proclaim on a town market "Jesus died for us (or for you)!" because you simply don't know if they are elect or not.
In reference to Heb 2:9 - The "every man" is "the children which God gave me" in verse 13. In reference to John 3:16 - The word "believeth" is present tense, and not in future tense, as, "will believe". So it is the "world of believers". In reference to 1 John 2:2 - same world of believers that is in John 3:16, and in many others that use "the world".
 

Bluejay2u

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Sep 12, 2018
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In reference to Heb 2:9 - The "every man" is "the children which God gave me" in verse 13. In reference to John 3:16 - The word "believeth" is present tense, and not in future tense, as, "will believe". So it is the "world of believers". In reference to 1 John 2:2 - same world of believers that is in John 3:16, and in many others that use "the world".
Given the wording of II Corinthians 5:14;

For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

1. Who are the “all” that One died for?
2. Who were the “all” that were dead?

Thanks
 

ForestGreenCook

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Given the wording of II Corinthians 5:14;

For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

1. Who are the “all” that One died for?
2. Who were the “all” that were dead?

Thanks
1. all of the elect 2. All mankind....... All scriptures must harmonize or you do not understand the doctrine of Jesus.
 

Bluejay2u

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May I remind that when the Bible says “death”, “dead” simply means “separation” and that we are “separated because of sin” Isa. 59:2. I am not a fond for a belief on the annihilation of the dead so that the dead knows nothing, response to nothing, or desire nothing. The rich man being in torment in hell even prayed to father Abraham to send messenger to warned them on his hellish estate. So 1 Corinthians 2:14 does not apply on the situation.

I have responded to your other thread taking the very example of the Eunuch, possessing and reading copies of scriptures though he is not able to understand yet the point is why he had such very important scroll that pertains to spiritual things that he should not have not in the first place because his spirit is dead (Acts 8:27-32). Well, the conviction of the Holy Spirit plays the key role in regenerating man and it is the scriptures that is quick and powerful that makes one alive if one respond by hearing the words of God.

Is there such impossibility with God? No my God is not the God of impossibility, he is able to save that comes unto him by Christ Hebrews 7:25. John 6:39 is fully explained by the scriptures and that I believe that Christ died not for the elect only, he died for all men.

Isah. 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

God bless
it is the scriptures that is quick and powerful that makes one alive if one respond by hearing the words of God.”

Are we certain of this? The verse alluded to, in context, reads:

“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.”


From the underlined portions of the text we see that the “word of God”:

1. Is “quick”, meaning “alive”. While acknowledging that the scriptures can be used to lead people from death unto life, are we to understand that they are a life form?

2. Discerns thoughts and intents. To discern is to perceive, recognize, observe, etc. Do the written scriptures possess the power discern thoughts and intents of the hearts of men and women?

3. Verse 13, in context, can only be an amplifier of verse 12; so “His sight”, before Whose eyes all creatures are manifest, can only be a reference to the subject of verse 12, i.e. the “”word of God”. Do the scriptures manifestly “see” all creatures?

4. Syntax further requires “the eyes of Him”, in verse 13, to also refer refer to the “word of God”, there being no other subject available in context. Are we to understand that the Scriptures are masculine and have eyes?

5. While not as directly connected to verse 12 as is verse 13, verse 14 must be taken either in connection with 12 and 13, or else be taken as springing up from nowhere and in no context. Assuming verse 14 relates to its preceding verses, it is revealed that the “word of God” in verse 12 is none other than our great High Priest, Jesus, the Son of God. Is this not consistent with what we learn in John, chapter 1, concerning the Word of God, who is God, and who was made flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth?

Though it would appear that the KJV translators (lower case “w” in “word”), and indeed all of “Christendom”, hold an opposite view, I have never been able to accept Hebrews 4: 12-14 as refering to anything other than Jesus; about whose person, office, speech, priesthood, etc. the book of Hebrews is particularly concerned, and who indeed is Living and Powerful, who is depicted in Revelation as having a two-edged sword proceeding from His mouth, whose words (never man spake like this man) reach right down into our spirit and soul (and we dead men, who thus hear the voice of the Son of God, pass from death unto life), who indeed discerns our every thought and intent so that we appear before His eyes as naked and open; supplicants, who are thus compelled to plead and to declare His righteousness rather than our own for the remission of sins.
 

Bluejay2u

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1. all of the elect 2. All mankind....... All scriptures must harmonize or you do not understand the doctrine of Jesus.

Indeed, properly understood, all scriptures harmonize; not only scripture to scripture but clause to clause. To understand “all”, in back-to-back clauses of the same verse of scripture, to refer to separate and opposite groups of people (and with nothing within the verse or broader context of the chapter to cause us to understand them as being separate groups), is to prevent these clauses from harmonizing with each other. Such an interpretation of “all” in this verse is illogical and does violence to the obvious meaning of the verse and it’s context.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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it is the scriptures that is quick and powerful that makes one alive if one respond by hearing the words of God.”

Are we certain of this? The verse alluded to, in context, reads:

“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.”

From the underlined portions of the text we see that the “word of God”:

1. Is “quick”, meaning “alive”. While acknowledging that the scriptures can be used to lead people from death unto life, are we to understand that they are a life form?

2. Discerns thoughts and intents. To discern is to perceive, recognize, observe, etc. Do the written scriptures possess the power discern thoughts and intents of the hearts of men and women?

3. Verse 13, in context, can only be an amplifier of verse 12; so “His sight”, before Whose eyes all creatures are manifest, can only be a reference to the subject of verse 12, i.e. the “”word of God”. Do the scriptures manifestly “see” all creatures?

4. Syntax further requires “the eyes of Him”, in verse 13, to also refer refer to the “word of God”, there being no other subject available in context. Are we to understand that the Scriptures are masculine and have eyes?

5. While not as directly connected to verse 12 as is verse 13, verse 14 must be taken either in connection with 12 and 13, or else be taken as springing up from nowhere and in no context. Assuming verse 14 relates to its preceding verses, it is revealed that the “word of God” in verse 12 is none other than our great High Priest, Jesus, the Son of God. Is this not consistent with what we learn in John, chapter 1, concerning the Word of God, who is God, and who was made flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth?

Though it would appear that the KJV translators (lower case “w” in “word”), and indeed all of “Christendom”, hold an opposite view, I have never been able to accept Hebrews 4: 12-14 as refering to anything other than Jesus; about whose person, office, speech, priesthood, etc. the book of Hebrews is particularly concerned, and who indeed is Living and Powerful, who is depicted in Revelation as having a two-edged sword proceeding from His mouth, whose words (never man spake like this man) reach right down into our spirit and soul (and we dead men, who thus hear the voice of the Son of God, pass from death unto life), who indeed discerns our every thought and intent so that we appear before His eyes as naked and open; supplicants, who are thus compelled to plead and to declare His righteousness rather than our own for the remission of sins.
No matter how hard you try to make the natural man, described in 1 Cor 2:14, to understand spiritual things, the scriptures will not harmonize that thought. God is a Spirit. God, the Holy Spirit, and Christ are ONE. Jesus was God manifested as a man, yet still a Spirit (both God and man). Anything that is spiritual is looked upon as FOOLISHNESS to the natural man and he CANNOT discern spiritual things. This statement plainly will not allow the natural man to have a part in his eternal salvation, which, as I understand, goes against most everyone's belief on this forum, but scriptures prove themselves and they must harmonize to be Jesus's doctrine. In reference to Heb 4:12-14, Particularly verse 14 - Yes these verses are talking about Christ Jesus. lets determine who the writer of this verse is referring to. Seeing then that we have a high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let US hold fast "OUR PROFESSION". and in chapter 10:23 - Let us hold fast the profession OF OUR FAITH without wavering. Faith is a fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:22) and the natural man does not have the Spirit until he is regenerated as explained in Eph 2, especially in verse 5 where it says he is yet "dead in sins" unable to ask to be regenerated.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Indeed, properly understood, all scriptures harmonize; not only scripture to scripture but clause to clause. To understand “all”, in back-to-back clauses of the same verse of scripture, to refer to separate and opposite groups of people (and with nothing within the verse or broader context of the chapter to cause us to understand them as being separate groups), is to prevent these clauses from harmonizing with each other. Such an interpretation of “all” in this verse is illogical and does violence to the obvious meaning of the verse and it’s context.
If the "ALL" that one died for means "all mankind", how do you make that harmonize with John 6:39? Does the "ALL" he has given me, have reference to "all mankind"? If so, will all mankind live with him in heaven?, as he states that he will not lose, even one, and he will raise them all up at the last day. All scriptures must harmonize or you do not understand the doctrine of Jesus.
 

fredoheaven

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Nov 17, 2015
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I appreciate your dedication in trying to learn the truth in God's word. I think that we never quit learning if we keep studying. I believe the scriptures teach that God is all powerful, all knowing, everywhere present, and completely sovereign in eternally saving man. God had foreknowledge, even before he formed the world, what the actions of man would be. The scriptures say, and I am sorry I did not take time to look the scripture up, God knows the beginning from the end. I have a lot of questions to God that I do not think he answers. He says "his ways are higher than our ways and past finding out". John 1:13 - them that believe in verse 12 were in verse 13 not born by the will of man, but of God, because according to 1 Cor 2:14 the natural man, void of the Spirit, cannot believe in spiritual things, they are foolishness unto him. In reference to 1 John 2:2 - Heb 12:6 - For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgest every son whom he receiveth. If he loved all mankind, it would seem logical that he would chasten all mankind. Ps 73:5 - They (the wicked) are not PLAGUED= Greek translation= divinely punished, as other men. The word "WORLD" in 1 John 2:2 would mean the elect world, (world of believers only). The same will apply in John 3:16 and in several other scriptures for the word "world". In reference to 2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise (forgiving us our sins when we repent). We have to go back to 2 Peter 1:1 to establish who Peter is talking to, which is to them that have obtained like precious faith. When we turn away from God to the things of the world in some scriptures we are considered to be "dead" to a fellowship with God. Peter is giving these people who have like precious faith a warning to repent when they lust after the things of the world, even including himself by using the word "us-ward" so that they would not perish "be dead to their fellowship with God. I do not know if I have answered your question to Slayer about Eph 1:4 or not, if not, let me know.
Thanks but I have to eliminate scripture citations irrelevant to the issue at hand. I believe the scriptures is still unscratched when it says in the particular passages where it says the “WORLD” is in reference to the ENTIRE, THE WHOLE, THE ALL and not just SOME, PART of some “elect” or “elite” or “elect world” or “world of believers only”. You know I am a firm believer of scripture (KJV) and I just don’t know of any other translation of the so called “elect world” or “world of believers only”. I don’t want to issue those things I cannot comprehend but those things clearly revealed in the scripture of truth with the help of the Holy Spirit. Never mind the things that are not revealed just go on dealing with the scriptures. If you could only provide such scriptures of “elect world” then perhaps we can move on.
God bless…
 

ForestGreenCook

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Thanks but I have to eliminate scripture citations irrelevant to the issue at hand. I believe the scriptures is still unscratched when it says in the particular passages where it says the “WORLD” is in reference to the ENTIRE, THE WHOLE, THE ALL and not just SOME, PART of some “elect” or “elite” or “elect world” or “world of believers only”. You know I am a firm believer of scripture (KJV) and I just don’t know of any other translation of the so called “elect world” or “world of believers only”. I don’t want to issue those things I cannot comprehend but those things clearly revealed in the scripture of truth with the help of the Holy Spirit. Never mind the things that are not revealed just go on dealing with the scriptures. If you could only provide such scriptures of “elect world” then perhaps we can move on.
God bless…
God changed Jacob's name to Israel - Gen 32:28. Jacob represents God's elect, (Isaiah 65:9), And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah, an inheritor of my mountains; and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there. Isaiah 49:8 - Thus sayeth the LORD, in an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages, verse 11, and I will make my mountains a way, and my highways shall be exalted. It is my understanding that "the mountains" represent the world of God's elect. Eze 14:6 - My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill, yea, my flock was scattered upon the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them.
 

ForestGreenCook

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You know what it means.

What God is saying in 1 Cor 2:14 is that the carnal Christian -- those described in chapters 1 and 3 as having left off following the Lord Jesus Christ and instead they follow men (1 Cor 1:11-12, 1 Cor 3:3-4) -- are unable to understand the spiritual matters Paul was able to teach to those who were more mature in Christ.

Paul said howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect (1 Cor 2:6). The word "perfect" does not mean "perfect" as in never sin, but "perfect" as in more mature ... further along in their growth in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul taught those who were carnal and who were yet babes in Christ, but he could only go so far as Jesus Chris, and Him crucified (1 Cor 2:2). Paul says that he could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able (1 Cor 3:1-2).

Paul teaches that those who are carnal and who leave off following the Lord Jesus Christ that they are unable to understand spiritual matters.
Your statement that the natural man is a babe in Christ is evidence of a lack of knowledge, because no man is "in Christ" until after he is regenerated. When a person is newly regenerated, they are babes in Christ until they gain more knowledge by the revelation of the Holy Spirit within them.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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Your statement that the natural man is a babe in Christ is evidence of a lack of knowledge, because no man is "in Christ" until after he is regenerated. When a person is newly regenerated, they are babes in Christ until they gain more knowledge by the revelation of the Holy Spirit within them.
1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


The word "natural" in 1 Cor 2:14 is the Greek word psyxikós and it describes the natural ("lower") aspect of humanity, i.e. behavior that is "more of earth (carnality) than heaven."

Paul equates the believer who is "carnal" with the natural man.


As we see in 1 Cor 1:10-11, the believers in Corinth were contentious. In 1 Cor 3:3-4, Paul tells us the believers were "carnal".

We see the same thing going on today because believers do not follow the Lord Jesus Christ. They follow men and doctrines of men. As a result, we see those who claim to be Christians behaving no differently than unbelievers.

Believers who do not follow the Lord Jesus Christ will remain immature and will not understand / comprehend spiritual matters.


 

ForestGreenCook

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1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


The word "natural" in 1 Cor 2:14 is the Greek word psyxikós and it describes the natural ("lower") aspect of humanity, i.e. behavior that is "more of earth (carnality) than heaven."

Paul equates the believer who is "carnal" with the natural man.

As we see in 1 Cor 1:10-11, the believers in Corinth were contentious. In 1 Cor 3:3-4, Paul tells us the believers were "carnal".

We see the same thing going on today because believers do not follow the Lord Jesus Christ. They follow men and doctrines of men. As a result, we see those who claim to be Christians behaving no differently than unbelievers.

Believers who do not follow the Lord Jesus Christ will remain immature and will not understand / comprehend spiritual matters.
You are not understanding just how carnal you are by nature. Just because you have been regenerated does not mean that you still carry the baggage of your fleshly nature, as Paul explains of his battle of the flesh against the Spirit in Rom 7:14-25. The scriptures in the Corinthian letter you have referenced has nothing to do with the unregenerated natural man.
 

ForestGreenCook

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1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


The word "natural" in 1 Cor 2:14 is the Greek word psyxikós and it describes the natural ("lower") aspect of humanity, i.e. behavior that is "more of earth (carnality) than heaven."

Paul equates the believer who is "carnal" with the natural man.

As we see in 1 Cor 1:10-11, the believers in Corinth were contentious. In 1 Cor 3:3-4, Paul tells us the believers were "carnal".

We see the same thing going on today because believers do not follow the Lord Jesus Christ. They follow men and doctrines of men. As a result, we see those who claim to be Christians behaving no differently than unbelievers.

Believers who do not follow the Lord Jesus Christ will remain immature and will not understand / comprehend spiritual matters.
The regenerated children of God do understand and comprehend spiritual things in different degrees according to how deep their faith has grown and when they repent of their disobedience (carnal actions) they are back in fellowship with God. The unregenerated natural man's ability still holds true in 1 Cor 2:14.
 

ForestGreenCook

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The issue I raised is that you claim that the milk of the word which is spiritual in nature is the same as the natural physical realm revealing God's eternal power and Godhead shown in Rom 1:20.

It is apparent from Rom 1:20-21 that the natural, physical realm does reveal God's eternal power and Godhead which can be understood and known to natural man.





Your error is that you go to 1 Cor 2:14 and claim that the "spiritual things" spoken of there are the same as the "natural things" shown in Rom 1:20-21.

Here is what Thayer's (1889 edition) says about the word "knew" as used in Rom 1:21 –

"In particular, to become acquainted with, to know, is employed in the N. T. of the knowledge of God and Christ and of the things relating to them or proceeding from them; a. τόν Θεόν, the one, true God, in contrast with the polytheism of the Gentiles: Ro. i. 21 ; ... "


So we see that the word "knew" in Rom 1:21 is not some indepth, spiritual knowledge. It is an acquaintance with because God has chosen to make known His eternal power and Godhead to natural man through the natural, physical creation.

It's really interesting that you claim God is sovereign over all His creation, but only if His sovereignty fits your paradigm. In other words, you do not allow God to choose to reveal His eternal power and Godhead to natural man through the natural, physical creation. That just does not fit your concept of "sovereign" because you have to define what "sovereign" is rather than allow God to be sovereign in the manner He determines.





According to Rom 1:20-21, the natural man can recognize and ascertain God's eternal power and Godhead as the natural, physical realm reveals.





Where have I stated God gives the natural man the ability to discern spiritual things?

I stated that God reveals His eternal power and Godhead to natural man through the natural, physical realm ... just as Rom 1:20-21 tells us.

The one who cannot "harmonize" is the one who insists that the natural, physical realm of Rom 1:20-21 is the same as the spiritual matters shown in 1 Cor 2:14. All because he holds to calvin's doctrine which does not recognize that while God wants all men to be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth God also allows mankind to suppress the truth in unrighteousness.
Again, you are applying all of the salvation (deliverance- Greek translation) scriptures as eternal, when in fact most of them are applying to a deliverance we receive here on earth, as in 1 Tim 2:4 - there is a deliverance when a child of God comes to a knowledge of the truth, as explained in Romans 10.
 

notuptome

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Again, you are applying all of the salvation (deliverance- Greek translation) scriptures as eternal, when in fact most of them are applying to a deliverance we receive here on earth, as in 1 Tim 2:4 - there is a deliverance when a child of God comes to a knowledge of the truth, as explained in Romans 10.
You are as sad as King Agrippa. The gospel is right before you yet you cannot receive it. How sad.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Mar 23, 2016
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The scriptures in the Corinthian letter you have referenced has nothing to do with the unregenerated natural man.
I know. That's what I've been explaining to you.

1 Cor 2:14 addresses the fact that the carnal believer is "governed by the ψυχή (psuché) i. e. the sensuous nature with its subjection to appetite and passion". That's Thayer's explanation of the word psyxikós as used in 1 Cor 2:14.

The believer can either follow his/her fleshly desires (who he/she is in Adam) or the believer can follow the Lord Jesus Christ.

If the believer follows the psyxikós (the fleshly desires), he/she will not receive the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

That is exactly what 1 Cor 2:14 states.



 
Mar 23, 2016
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The regenerated children of God do understand and comprehend spiritual things in different degrees according to how deep their faith has grown and when they repent of their disobedience (carnal actions) they are back in fellowship with God. The unregenerated natural man's ability still holds true in 1 Cor 2:14.
So, according to your interpretation, you've got Paul addressing the issue of the carnality of the believers in the church at Corinth, telling the believers that they were contentious, that there was division in the church because they followed men rather than follow the Lord Jesus Christ, they were unable to go beyond the teaching of Christ and Him crucified, and Paul fed them with milk and not with meat because they were carnal and walked as men.

Then all of a sudden, in the middle of talking about the carnality of the believers in Corinth, Paul inserted a statement relating to the unbeliever, and then goes back to the issue of the carnality among the believers.

Yeah ... right. :sneaky: Your dogma blinds you to the truth and you continue to prop up an understanding of Scripture never intended by God.




 
Mar 23, 2016
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Again, you are applying all of the salvation (deliverance- Greek translation) scriptures as eternal, when in fact most of them are applying to a deliverance we receive here on earth, as in 1 Tim 2:4 - there is a deliverance when a child of God comes to a knowledge of the truth, as explained in Romans 10.
So you believe that when Rom 10:9 states That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved, the verse is speaking only "to a deliverance we received here on earth"???

You need to step away from whatever doctrine has you twisting Scripture from its true meaning / intent.

When we confess with our mouths that Jesus Christ is Lord in our lives and when we believe in our hearts that God has raised Jesus Christ from the dead, we are saved. To be saved means that we are made safe, preserved safe from death, judgment, and destruction ... not merely to be made happy here in this life on this earth, but we are afforded everlasting life in new heaven / new earth which is to come.

Do you even realize what it means to be born again?


 

ForestGreenCook

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So, according to your interpretation, you've got Paul addressing the issue of the carnality of the believers in the church at Corinth, telling the believers that they were contentious, that there was division in the church because they followed men rather than follow the Lord Jesus Christ, they were unable to go beyond the teaching of Christ and Him crucified, and Paul fed them with milk and not with meat because they were carnal and walked as men.

Then all of a sudden, in the middle of talking about the carnality of the believers in Corinth, Paul inserted a statement relating to the unbeliever, and then goes back to the issue of the carnality among the believers.

Yeah ... right. :sneaky: Your dogma blinds you to the truth and you continue to prop up an understanding of Scripture never intended by God.
If you say that you have no sin, the scriptures say that you are a liar and the truth is not in you. When you, yourself, commit a sin, you become carnal, even though you are still a child of God and are still going to heaven, because Jesus blotted that sin out. You are not as the natural man described in 1 Cor 2:14 that has never been regenerated.
 

ForestGreenCook

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So you believe that when Rom 10:9 states That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved, the verse is speaking only "to a deliverance we received here on earth"???

You need to step away from whatever doctrine has you twisting Scripture from its true meaning / intent.

When we confess with our mouths that Jesus Christ is Lord in our lives and when we believe in our hearts that God has raised Jesus Christ from the dead, we are saved. To be saved means that we are made safe, preserved safe from death, judgment, and destruction ... not merely to be made happy here in this life on this earth, but we are afforded everlasting life in new heaven / new earth which is to come.

Do you even realize what it means to be born again?
YES! there is a deliverance here on earth when a child of God comes to a knowledge of the truth and stops going about to establish their own righteousness. Do you realize that you are going about trying to establish your own righteousness by your good works of, accepting, confessing, believing, giving God permission to save you eternally. Your interpretation of scriptures do not harmonize. Yes, I know what it means to be born again, I read Eph 2.