The Abomination of Desolation

KJV1611 said he thought Dan.9:27 was Jesus confirming the covenant between Abraham and and God.

Do you think Jesus will come back on a literal cloud or do you think it's figurative language where the clouds represent something like a cloud of witnesses or something of that sort?

Oh, I can not see what he says. Did he answer you? I have never heard that interpretation myself..

I'm really not sure whether real or figurative.
I do, however, see that there will be some very dire environmental issues according to Revelation 9, which appear to indicate food supplies running short, which in turn result in the worlds leaders being influenced by the four released dark side angels to initiate a global genocide.
This may be caused by no rain or clouds. So it may be that at the end of this (the beasts system), the Lord returns is on a literal cloud/s and with rainfall.

It makes no sense because in 9:20 Daniel mentions "my people Israel". So this is all about Israel not Jesus. No he has not answered me yet.

It makes no sense because in 9:20 Daniel mentions "my people Israel". So this is all about Israel not Jesus. No he has not answered me yet.

Wasn't the covenant with death (Old Covenant) disannulled when Jesus came and gave them the New Covenant when he came the first time?

It makes no sense because in 9:20 Daniel mentions "my people Israel". So this is all about Israel not Jesus. No he has not answered me yet.

Have prior generations, seen the seas and waves roaring to the extent that their hearts are failing them recognizing things are going to get worse (Luke 21:25-26)?
Have prior generations seen the Lord coming on a cloud with power and great glory (Luke 21:27)?
The answer to these questions is: No.
The generation that witnesses the events described in Luke 21, Matthew 24, and Mark 13 will not pass away before the end of Satan's system. This means the events in these chapters will not take 40 or more years to complete before the Lord will commence to reign.

Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Tell me how this so called war was

Worldwide

Greater than WW1 or WW2, let alone some of the other smaller wars in the 20th century (great tribuation such as has never been seen before or after)
How rome could have controlled every aspect of any persons money (can not buy or sell)

Was destroyed by Christ?

I do not understand this thought that AD 70 and what occured can even remotely be seen as the great tribulation spoken of by Christ, or the great war/time of jacobs trouble spoken of in the OT prophecys,

To start with the grammar says it's Christ. The subject of verse 26 is the Messiah and the bit about the prince to come is a side note. Verse 27 continues with the subject of verse 26 which is Christ.

But the main reason I believe that is because Christ according to Paul confirmed the Abrahamic covenant.

Gal_3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Also when Christ was crucified he became the ultimate sacrifice and ended the need for animal sacrifices.

The only other place I see death and hell mentioned together is in Revelation 6:8.
Death is the fourth horseman, and hell follows him.
After having previously shown in earlier posts that the beast with ten horns which devours and stomps over its victims (Daniel 7:7) represents the Northern kingdom in Daniel 11; which demolishes numerous Middle Eastern nations, including the land of Israel (Daniel 11:40-41), all of which representing the Southern kingdom; I then realize the Northern kingdom as one of the two entities, either death or hell which will fly morning after morning, by day and by night over the land of Israel taking a daily sacrifice of many lives (Isaiah 28:18-20).

Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Daniel 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

Daniel 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

Isaiah 28:
18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
20 For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.

The daily sacrifice in Daniel has nothing to do with animal sacrifice and taking away the daily sacrifice is something that is associated with satan/antichrist all the time, i don't know why anyone would want to associate it with Jesus:

Dan 8:12 And on account of rebellion, the host and the daily sacrifice were given over to the horn, and it flung truth to the ground and prospered in whatever it did. 13Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long until the fulfillment of the vision of the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, and the surrender of the sanctuary and of the host to be trampled?”

Dan 11:31 His forces will rise up and desecrate the temple fortress. They will abolish the daily sacrifice and set up the abomination of desolation.

In fact, taking away the daily sacrifice causes the abomination, so taking away daily sacrifice= abomination that causes desolate. Why associate evil with God?

Jesus' crucifixion annuls what we call annual sacrifice and not daily sacrifice. Jesus crucifixion sets up daily sacrifice which is also called worshiping in truth and spirit.

Heb 10:
1The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins. 4It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

5Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:

“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
6with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
7Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, my God.’ ”

No, your not getting the points I am trying to make, I am not denying them, I just do not agree with your interpretation of scripture. Or your interpretation of prophesy. And to say I am is just wrong dude, Thats uncalled for! And does not support your view.

Your making the abomination of desolation a symbolic event not a literal event.

In daniels day, In Jesus day, an abomination which makes desolate is an idol or unlcean thing placed in a most holy place, defiling the temple or makingn it ceremonially unclean, thus rendering it useless. So any interpretation which does not fit this defenition is not an interpretation we should be following

Rev 11:2 is not about the abomination, it is about what happens to Jerusalem and the temple AFTER the abomination is SEEN STANDING in the HOLY PLACE.


Matt 24: 15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),

Again, The abomination is an object, It is in a particualar place (the holy place) And it is something that can be seen, it is not a symbolic thing, it is literal.

Is 28 is a prophesy concerning Jesus, as a cornerstone which is rejected in Jesus day. Not sure what that has to do with the abomination of desolation or your point. .

The abomination of desolation is simply blasphemy against the Holy anointing Spirit, Christ. (Contributing the works of one to another) It is the same a plagiarism stealing the authorship of one and giving it over to another

In that way the abomination of desolation in effect violates the first commandment not to have any unseen false gods before our Creator and redeemer.

When the time of reformation came.... the abomination of desolation began. The veil is rent .

lol, Me either EG!!!!

In the past many who do believe that way would give a challenge to Read the writings of Josephus(a whole lot of reading) because they thought it would help in proving their eschatology but most wont do it. Why is that it is not scripture and so it puts a foul taste in many's mouth and so they refuse to read it or see it even as a historical document.

I am (NOT a preteist) and do not believe the AOD,the mark of the beast ect. were fulfilled between ad66-70. Why is because many years ago my thoughts were in that "I did not care if this camp or the other was correct I just wanted to know what was". In the same I am also (NOT M.A.D.) and so have no desire to deny that Jerusalem was destroyed in ad70.

Locutus I count as a dear friend of mine(a brother in Christ) although we differ on this(AOD,mark of beast ect.) and see him as very intelligent and has shown me he is honest about things we have discussed. So the post between me and him might seem rash but bare in mind he referred to me as Markus and changed from Dispensational to futuristic because he knew it was accurate(bless you brother,lol).

You have the scriptures to work with which are a type of scale to weigh anything against. They are what any document is compared to in Christian eschatology. Again though as in this case Adam Clarke was quoted,quoting Josephus so anyone who has never read the things from Josephus will agree without reading it or read it to see if it is so.

In Wars 2 from Josephus http://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/war-2.html (if you read it,lol) you will find a weapon that will completely change how you look at the AOD and the mark of the beast. Look for this,,, "piety",,"offerings",, but why?

In the bible(scale) those who worship the beast are who it says receive his mark. In wars2 the Jews are accused of impiety meaning they did not worship nor hold any regard to Caesar/Rome as any type God/Holiness ect. (opposite from scripture).

In wars 2 the Romans try several times to have their images set up in Jerusalem and other synagogues(other cities in Judah) and the Jews riot every time because it would pollute the temple of God (again opposite to scripture those who receive the mark worship the image).

Look at wars2 chapter 18,find "Pella"(notice the place you are told they fled to is sacked and its people killed between ad66-70),lol not such a safe place to flee to right?

In the Scriptures Revelation 13:17 no one can buy or sell unless they do so with the beast mark. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish_Revolt_coinage (notice the Jews are not using the Romans money any more)? So if Rome is the beast they did not buy and sell with their money.

Much more I could say but Ask yourself if the Jews worshiped Rome/Caesar or if they revolted against it/him and notice that in Scripture the ones who receive the mark and worship the image of the beast are the ones within the walls of Jerusalem during the siege...

Heb_7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

Are you saying that the sacrifices in Heb 7:27 is not animal sacrifices? Also isn't the writer of Hebrews speaking of the daily sacrifice?

Heb_7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

Are you saying that the sacrifices in Heb 7:27 is not animal sacrifices? Also isn't the writer of Hebrews speaking of the daily sacrifice?

The verse you are talking about has nothing to do with daily sacrifice. The context means that Jesus offers something permanent and is not temporary. Day after day doesn't necessarily mean daily but repetitive.

Heb 7:26 Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. 27Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.

1. You have not addressed the fact that in Dan 11 and Dan 8, it is the antichrist that takes away the daily sacrifice and taking away the daily sacrifice results into the abomination that causes desolate- something we can not associate with God.

2. Hebrews 10 clearly addresses which kind of sacrifice that Jesus abolishes, it is the annual animal sacrifice and not daily

3. The animal sacrifice symbolic of remission of sins in the OT was not being performed daily but annually and in set Jewish holidays.