The Abomination of Desolation

Do you realize that people in the first century called the Roman empire as "all nations, whole world, all tongues"?

We should not read so old Scriptures with our imagination of today, with how we use words today.

I do not know if Roman was govern all the world. I do not know if China or India was under Roman in the first century.

Thats not how people in biblical times were thinking and thats why I think its not possible to apply this global, planetery "world" view to their prophecies.

"Whole world" was understood as a middle eastern area with its close neighbours - Southern Europe, Northern Africa, Asia Minor. They were not talking about Sweden, China, Australia or America.

I have no firm position regarding prophecies, but I am more and more inclining to preterism.

It makes more sense, its more simple, it corresponds with the era Scriptures were written in. There are many things I have no answer to, however, because I am quite new in this field and I have to read more about it. I was a futurist for the most of my life.

There has never been a global, planetary world government. And its not possible to imagine today.

There has been many world governments in the biblical meaning - Babylonians, Greeks, Romans.

So can you show me who those people are. I have never heard anyway say what you do. And I have been studying end times theology for almost 3 decades now.

When I was young I used to be in the "once saved always saved camp", until I realized after many years of reading the Word that many scriptures contradicted this perspective.
I also was in the rapture camp where I believed all the faithful in Christ bodies would be whisked up to heaven, until I saw numerous Scriptures that likewise contradicted this perspective.
From these and other erroneous perspectives, and realizing the Lord provides us with numerous scriptures that describe the same events by which to attain a more accurate perspective of what the truth of the matter is, I decided to ditch my dogmatic perspectives that contradict the Word, and look into connecting the dots by myself.
Revelation 10:7 describes the Lords Word as the His mystery, which at some point in the future the faithful in Chirst will be fully comprehended.

Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Do you believe 2 thessalonians 2:1-8 is already fulfillled? Because again: Jesus did NOT return in 70AD and destroy the man of lawlesness. (2 thess 1:5-8)
If you watn to make the point that it was Vespasian or some other roman emperor, NONE of them were destroyed at 70AD. Therefore it does NOT match with 2 thessalonians 2:1-8!

I like you, but may I suggest the reason you dont have a firm position regarding prophecies is precisely because of what you said earlier, when you read the scriptures symbolically and allegorically instead of the plain meaning of the text you will end up in a mess, and that is why MOST churches dont preach on end times or prophecies, because they are amill and have no clue about it.

1. Sadly, I wish you would re-look at our position in christ, and realise our salvation is secure forever, not based on us, but based on Christ.
2. Again I ask, Who else believes the way you do? It has been thousands of years since most of these prophecies where given, are you telling me you have a belief NO ONE else has come to and your alright with that?

Hello Hevosmies,

Regarding those of the OT belonging to the church, consider what Jesus said in Matt.16:18:

"I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it."

The words "I will build" are in the future tense. That being true, Jesus saying "I will build my church" would make no sense if it included the OT saints. "I will build" infers that it was not built yet.

Just something to consider

Thats not how people in biblical times were thinking and thats why I think its not possible to apply this global, planetery "world" view to their prophecies.

"Whole world" was understood as a middle eastern area with its close neighbours - Southern Europe, Northern Africa, Asia Minor. They were not talking about Sweden, China, Australia or America.

The words about the end times were sealed with no one able to comprehend them until the time of the end (Daniel 12:4 & 9).
These are scriptures by which we understand why people in the past came to erroneous conclusions.
As the end time events pertain to now; knowledge to these events is now increasing.

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

I have no firm position regarding prophecies, but I am more and more inclining to preterism.

It makes more sense, its more simple, it corresponds with the era Scriptures were written in. There are many things I have no answer to, however, because I am quite new in this field and I have to read more about it. I was a futurist for the most of my life.

There has never been a global, planetary world government. And its not possible to imagine today.

There has been many world governments in the biblical meaning - Babylonians, Greeks, Romans.

This is true that often world doesn't mean the entire world in the bible.
But bro: if Jesus already returned in 70AD, how come the world still sucks so much?
What are we doing here still? Do you believe there are any signs that Jesus is coming again to resurrect people soon and change things? Or are you FULL preterist?

In my opinion some of what in the Bible was the story that happen that era, some are will happen in the future.

I believe rev 13 not happen yet.

I never heard in the first century people can not buy or sale without mark of the beast.

I do not know if Roman was govern all the world. I do not know if China or India was under Roman in the first century.

The gospel has nothing to do with the political governments of this world as kingdoms of this world, under the rule of the god of this world

The buying and selling has to do with gospel truth, just as the mark is not a literal mark viewable with the eye.

Proverbs 23:23Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.

We walk by faith the unseen eternal and not by sight after the temporal things of this world seen .

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.2 Corinthians 4:18

The word of God is not about the advancement of technology as if it was part of the gospel . The mark of the beast of the field is simply natural unconverted man who has no desire to hear the gospel , as was Cain a marked man whose brother Abel blood cries out from the ground even today . Or another marked man Esau who saw no value in a spiritual birth rite, the seed of Christ, but sold it for a cup of venison soup.

Genesis 4: 13-15 And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear......(as one that only Christ could bear) Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me. And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

Found this bit of information:

In 1546, an earthquake devastated the region and damaged the Temple Mount and the surrounding area. Suleyman ordered the rubble of homes adjacent to the western wall to be cleared for a prayer site for the Jews. Loewenberg notes the area was previously unknown to the Jews. Suleyman issued a firman (decree) that Jews had the right to pray there for all times. This decree remained in force and was honored by his successors for more than 400 years.

Very interesting "Loewenberg notes the area was previously unknown to the Jews".

The gospel has nothing to do with the political governments of this world as kingdoms of this world, under the rule of the god of this world

The buying and selling has to do with gospel truth, just as the mark is not a literal mark viewable with the eye.

Proverbs 23:23Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.

We walk by faith the unseen eternal and not by sight after the temporal things of this world seen .

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.2 Corinthians 4:18

The word of God is not about the advancement of technology as if it was part of the gospel . The mark of the beast of the field is simply natural unconverted man who has no desire to hear the gospel , as was Cain a marked man whose brother Abel blood cries out from the ground even today . Or another marked man Esau who saw no value in a spiritual birth rite, the seed of Christ, but sold it for a cup of venison soup.

Genesis 4: 13-15 And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear......(as one that only Christ could bear) Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me. And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

Of course.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (2 Thess 2:3,4)

1. Who is the Man of Sin, the Son of Perdition, also called "that Wicked [One]"? None other than the Antichrist (the Beast of Revelation 13).

2. What is his primary goal? To oppose and blaspheme God while he calls Himself God and Christ (hence Anti-Christ).

3. What does he do to promote false worship? He sets up the Abomination of Desolation ("the image of the Beast") within the Holy Place of the future temple, then sits within that temple claiming that he is God.

If this were not a Bible prophecy, it would be hard to believe that a man would have this audacity. But since he has all the supernatural power of Satan behind him, this is complete plausible.
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders... (2 Thess 2:8,9)

The wicked has been revealed as the antichrist. The spirit of lies who sits in the Holy place . There were many antichrists as there are today. They were there when the new testament was still being inspired . The word antichrist is clearly defined as a warning in 1 John 2:26-27.

The way I understand the warning to believers is that if any man seen insists we need him to teach us or we are in great danger with out him as a mediator between God and man we have had a run in with a antichrist run away. Those who stayed in Georgetown trusting James Jones as a antichrist mediator between God and man where part of a great deception of the god of this world

A beautiful portion of the gospel

These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 1 John1:26-27


Its how we know we are in the last days or last times indicated by the metaphor "thousands years" to represent a unknown . Twice he informs us we are I the last period of time before the Sun and moon the temporal times keepers are under the feet of His chaste virgin bride the church.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Notice how the wording changes from antichrist singular to the plural form ….antichrists .It can help aid the understanding of a antichrist.

From what I understand there are some that want to make the holy place a place visible to the human eye and not as what the holy place does represent, the unseen glory of God, which will be the light in the new heavens and earth. There will be no night as darkness in the New heavenly Jerusalem .

Rather than using the scripture as a sign and wonder to seek after, seeing the last the sign was the sign of Jonas it has been fulfilled at the cross . look to the time period that reveals…. even now are there many antichrists;

Like you mentioned. What is his primary goal? To oppose and blaspheme God while he calls Himself God and Christ (hence Anti-Christ).

I don't think we have to look any further than Peter used as one of the many antichrists (plural) .He was was forgiven of his blasphemy as one who cooperated with the spirit of the antichrist (singular), Satan . We I would think from that lesson must learn to distinguish the difference between the unseen eternal "things of God" and the temporal "things seen of men" .It is that which offends our God not seen .Taking away his holy high place, the unseen eternal.

The church is given as a representative glory. The true comes as the light of the gospel. The glory of the unseen Lord

Remember we do not wrestles against flesh and blood (like Peter or any man) we do not know Christ after flesh and blood as that which he said profits for nothing. But do wrestle against the holy unseen place of spirits and principalities.(the glory of God) And not as f we are looking for a literal temple. None will appear the veil is rent .The time of reformation has come.

Below, the revealing of the motive of operation of the antichrist Satan, Peter blaspheming the Son of man. (forgivable) His goal to make the cross, the gospel of Christ without effect

Note.....(purple in parenthesis) my added suggestion

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me,(eternal God, not seen) Satan: thou art an offence unto me(eternal God, not seen) : for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.(the temporal seen) Mathew 16:22-23


Matthew 12:31-32 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: (as that seen) but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost (not seen) shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, (seen) it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost,(not seen) it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.


Today now that the Son of man in respect to the temporal corrupted flesh named Jesus has departed never to appear again in the flesh (2 Corintiansa 5:16) Today seeing there is no longer the son of Man , blasphemy against the holy high place of our unseen God will not be forgiven. We walk by faith the unseen eternal not by sight the temporal as if it was the holy high place, our glorious God who remains without form.

Lol, Man you left a whole lot out of the Jonestown part but I was alive and remember those news stories well.Like when Jim Jones got on Walter Mondale's private jet with him. I remember when the Governor of Calif. along with the lt. gov, all agreed that if Jones wasn't for you you could not win an election. I remember two of his cult members who were the asst. district attorneys in Los Angeles and San Fransisco,,,I Remember when Mark Lane(his lawyer) was missing in the Jungle in Guyana and he told the story of how the U.S. special forces were in a fire fight with them and had surrounded their compound ect. ,,,,, NOT THAT I WAS IN THEIR CULT,lol but you forgot just how large that cult actually is...