The 144,000 named in Revelation

There are still 12 bloodline tribes even if we or they don’t know who they are, they are still descendants.

Yes i agree today there are bloodline decendants of the 12 tribes.. But my point was they where not all in Jerusalem in 70ad the people in Jerusalem where of the tribes of Juda benajmin and Levi.. because the northern tribes of old israel had been lost..

The Prophecy about Rachael WEEPING for HER children and her children are NOT is directly tied to the event when HEROD killed all the boys under 2 in Israel and the coasts thereof.....

Couple points to PONDER.........

a. Herod would KNOW that the KING would come from the LINE and LINEAGE of DAVID who was of the TRIBE of JUDAH
b. WHY would RACHAEL weep FOR her children that were NOT when she did not BEAR and children found in the lineage of JUDAH

The site revered as her burial place (Rachel's Tomb) is one of the holiest sites in Judaism. Rachel was the favorite of Jacob's two wives, and the mother of Joseph and Benjamin, two of the twelve progenitors of the tribes of Israel. Rachel's father was Laban. Her older sister was Leah, Jacob's first wife

Again, I believe my conclusions found in the OP are the most logically sound conclusions to be found concerning the 144,000 in the book of Revelation....the book contains both past, present and a future context.....Rachael WEEPING for HER children indicates that others than those of the tribe of JUDAH were killed by HEROD......we now have proof that at least 25% of the kids killed were of 3 tribes....2 of the which you guys are saying were wiped out and not IN ISRAEL during this time frame.

There is also another verse that attributes ALL the children of JACOB unto RACHAEL because SHE was the one he LOVED.....

Maybe so but even in the time of the divided kingdoms the people intermingled with one another. I see your point though.

The genealogy in respect to the spiritual seed Christ ended with the Son of man Jesus. We are all descendants of Noah even if we do not know it as we should.

1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Christ is the firstfruits of the spiritual kingdom of God, and no one else.

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Jer 46:28 Fear thou not, O Jacob my servant, saith the LORD: for I am with thee; for I will make a full end of all the nations whither I have driven thee: but I will not make a full end of thee, but correct thee in measure; yet will I not leave thee wholly unpunished.

Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

God will restore the kingdom on earth to Israel in the future when He turns them to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah.

It could be that the 144,000 Jews are the firstfruits of the kingdom restored to the Jews on earth when Jesus and the saints in glorified bodies rule over the heathen that God spared at the battle of Armageddon.

Some say they were lost, but God can find.

Eze 39:21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
Eze 39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.
Eze 39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
Eze 39:24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.
Eze 39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
Eze 39:26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
Eze 39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
Eze 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
Eze 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

This is a future prophesy, for if it was a past prophesy Israel as a nation would be in the truth that Jesus is their Messiah.

God said He is going to bring the whole house of Israel, all 12 tribes, back to their land, and leave none of the Jews in the nations anymore, and turn them to the truth, and they shall know the LORD their God from that day forward, and He will never hide His face from them again.

Which means Israel will be in the truth from that time forward, and never stray from the truth again.

It will happen when the New Age Christ establishes peace in the Middle East, and the Gentile nations come together and say Peace and safety as they try to establish peace on earth.

They will cause all the Jews to go back to Israel, and there will not be any Jews left in the nations.

Some say they are lost, but God can find.

Some say that some people are imposters in Israel claiming to be Jews, but the real Jews will all be back on their land, even if there are phonies there.

144,000 <----THE WAVE OFFERING of the FIRSTFRUITS..........my view and sticking to it.....all the facts and characteristics speaks loudly and it makes complete sense!

THESE ARE THE FIRSTFRUITS

I suggest the naysayers study the definite article translated "THE" from the Greek.........and be honest with the word!!

Yes i am very sure that God knows the ancestory of everyone on planet earth and when the time comes He will be able to draw 12,000 innocents from each of those 12 tribes to be the remnant spoken of in OT prophecy..


Isaiah 11 : KJV
10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. 11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

It really has nothing to do with seeds of the flesh that were used in a parables. We are, just as they were, not what we will be when the bride of Christ receives the promised new incorruptible body .

The time of reformation had come and is still doing its work.(sola scriptura)The remnant of his people in the verse above is speaking of new creatures neither Jew nor Gentile male nor female But again the bride of Christ. In the description of His chaste virgin bride in the book of Revelation 21 the tribe of Dan is missing that represent gates to the city. this is so that he could be used as a negative just as from the same one Bride Judas a apostle is missing for the same reason .Apostles represent the walls of the city made up of many lively stones as saints that do make up the spiritual house of God .

Matthew's gospel quotes it, stating that the slaughter under Herod fulfilled Jeremiah's prophecy. I've no idea how you can claim the two aren't "directly tied" when Scripture states otherwise.

2:16 Then when Herod saw that he had been tricked by the magi, he became very enraged, and sent and slew all the male children who were in Bethlehem and all its vicinity, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had determined from the magi. 17 Then what had been spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled:

18 “A voice was heard in Ramah,
Weeping and great mourning,
Rachel weeping for her children;
And she refused to be comforted,
Because they were no more.”

You must need glasses.......I already said they are directly tied....but that's OK....I know you are open to nothing other than what has been hammered out on your own anvil......

I can see how Dino might misread - try using some " "

The Prophecy about "Rachael WEEPING for HER children and her children are NOT" is directly tied to the event when HEROD killed all the boys under 2 in Israel and the coasts thereof.....

Either way the 144k as the infants is totally a stretch.

I don't believe it is a stretch....take ALL 11 characteristics and the fact that 4 times they are referenced in HEAVEN....address those 11 biblically........the fact that the ANGEL that seals them ASCENDS while speaking to the ANGEL DESCENDING to the earth.....the fact that RACHAEL had NO children tied to JUDAH and the lineage of the KING yet it is her children referenced....My view is solid and the reason most cannot accept it is because that have had error crammed down their throat about the 144,000.....funny thing...I HAVE NEVER heard ONE person address the 11 characteristics of the 144,000, have never heard anyone address the fact that 4 times they are referenced in heaven, have never heard one person address the fact that the angel that seals them ascends from the East while speaking to the angel DESCENDING to the earth and YET ALL without exception peddle some ideology that is not even found in scripture....hilariously sad.....

D. You mentioned the wave offering how do you tie this in??

The bloodline had ended with Christ. Why is it important after him??

^ If you believe that Luke 22:30,16,18 and Matthew 19:28 [and its parallel Mt25:31-34 for its TIMING] are "future," like I do, then it says there that "the 12" will "sit on 12 thrones, judgING the twelve tribes of Israel."


[and I also believe the Rev7:3 [/1:1 (alongside Matt22:7-8's SEQUENCE)] context is yet future, during the 70th-Wk/7-yrs/trib-yrs leading UP TO His Second Coming to the earth]

John calls the 144,000, “servants,” “servants the prophets,” and “servants of God” in the book of Revelation. (Revelation 6:11, 7:3, 10:7, 19:2)
The four angels do not hurt Earth until the 144,000 are sealed. (Revelation 7:3)
The 144,000 will be the first to receive the seal of God. (Revelation 7:3) They will be presented to God as the firstfruits of the Great Tribulation. They will not be defiled with women and they will travel with Jesus wherever He goes. (Revelation 14:4)
Unlike the numberless multitude who will come out of the Great Tribulation, the 144,000 will be numbered. (Revelation 7:5-8, 9, 14)
The 144,000 will experience and endure the sufferings of Christ. They will be honored above the rest of the redeemed. No one else will be able to sing their song. (Revelation 14:1, 3)
No lie or falsehood will be found in the mouths of the 144,000. (Revelation 14:5)
The 144,000 will visibly wear the names of the Father and Son on their foreheads throughout eternity. (Revelation 14:1; Revelation 22:3, 4)
The 144,000 will be Jews, descendants of Abraham. (Revelation 7:5-8

Because of what it represented........note the following...and the fact that they are called THE FIRSTFRUITS with the definite article...
My view....Christ as the firstborn from the dead offered himself and his blood as the FIRSTFRUIT and then OFFERED "THE FIRSTFRUITS" which consisted of this group of 144,000 Jewish MALES as the wave offering of FIRSTFRUITS (WHEAT HARVEST of MEN) unto the HEAVENLY FATHER.....

AGAIN.....go to chapter 14 Revelation and ONE by ONE write the 11 characteristics down and note that the 4 places they are identified with is in HEAVEN............

The wave offering (Hebrew: tenufah תנופה) or sheaf offeringor omer offering (korban omer) was an offering made by the Jewish priests to God (Exodus 29:24, 26, 27; Leviticus 7:20-34; 8:27; 9:21; 10:14, 15, etc.). The sheaf or omer or wave-offering then became the property of the priests.

Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 10 “Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘When you enter the land which I am going to give to you and reap its harvest, then you shall bring in the sheaf of the first fruits of your harvest to the priest. 11 He shall wave the sheaf before the Lord for you to be accepted; on the day after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.
 Leviticus 23:9

The omer offering (Hebrew korban omer, minchat omer) was a grain sacrifice wave offering, brought to the temple in Jerusalem. The first-fruits was a sheaf of barley which was offered in connection with the Feast of Unleavened Bread, directly following the Passover. The first-fruits of the second harvest, the loaves of bread, are offered at Shavuot, and both were wave offerings