Why does God allow abuse?
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Wenn arte in Ruhe und tun es. Gruß ist only Ruhe beginnt Labor Pauls. Doch mit let your faith be shaken
Dont let the enemy pluck u away from God. It's the job of God to judge.
We have no right to tell him what to do and what not. I know it's hard. God didn't stop my ex from raping me. But we gotta stay humble
Dont let the enemy pluck u away from God. It's the job of God to judge.
We have no right to tell him what to do and what not. I know it's hard. God didn't stop my ex from raping me. But we gotta stay humble
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Why do you regret it? Did you expect for Christians to say, God is so wrong in letting the boy die?
We see only the immediate. God sees the whole picture. I don't know how God can see all the evil in the world but He does. You just know of this one instance. God sees this million times over daily.
We trust Him in the final decisions.
Quantrill
We see only the immediate. God sees the whole picture. I don't know how God can see all the evil in the world but He does. You just know of this one instance. God sees this million times over daily.
We trust Him in the final decisions.
Quantrill
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I am just seeing that auto correct messed my post up in weird German. Sorry lol
I wanted to say that things will be getting way worse and we're just in the labor pains. It's just the beginning
Dont let your faith be shaken. That's exactly what makes the devil win, disarming the body of christ and many fall
I wanted to say that things will be getting way worse and we're just in the labor pains. It's just the beginning
Dont let your faith be shaken. That's exactly what makes the devil win, disarming the body of christ and many fall
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At the risk of possibly sounding harsh, what responses did you expect when you asked what seems like it was a deeply personal question in an impersonal way? You are clearly dealing with a lot of heavy emotional stuff; please find the courage to open up and be real about it with someone you can trust. And as much as you can find the time or energy, I'd encourage you to engage with the stories of Godly men and women who've had to walk through extreme suffering. One of the most impactful books I've read in recent years was the book, "I am N" which is basically a voice of the martyrs compilation about the modern day sufferings of persecuted believers (primarily in the Arab world in this collection). I read that and came away not wondering how a good God could allow such suffering to befall his own people, but wondering if I even deserved to be called a Christian if my instincts were more towards fighting and stopping those who would harm me than showing God's love to them. (And also wondering why tried so hard to ruin the book by turning every story into a preaching point and shoulding all over the reader)
I also wonder about the mothers of Bethlehem and the part of the Christmas story we leave out most every year. The part where Herod realizes that the magi aren't coming back to report and tries to solve the problem of not knowing which baby is the new king by just killing them all. Hard to imagine a bigger emotional roller coaster than " Messiah is finally here" to all the babies in town (boy babies at least) have just been slaughtered. And I don't know what I'd say to them if I could go back in time and meet them because somehow, I don't think that any amount of explaining to them who Jesus was and how important he was is going to make them ok with the fact that their babies died because Jesus was born in their town. But I do know that, that was the part of the story that most resonated with me on a particularly down year, and I came to realize that, that was Christmas too, maybe the most relatable part of Christmas for a good number of people every year. And I also know that as pain and suffering hit close to home and I have to wrestle with them, my understanding of God and the complexities of life and how he rules deepens. I don't think the question why can ever receive quite a satisfying answer, but as we look back on stories like Christmas, Joseph, Hannah and Sarah longing to have a baby, 400 years of hebrew slavery in egypt, and other Biblical stories, we can see that God in his sovereignty wastes nothing and is far more creative with the good he can bring out of our pain, than we would have ever imagined.
Don't stop asking the tough questions and don't settle for trite answers, wrestling with this stuff is how we come to know God better.
I also wonder about the mothers of Bethlehem and the part of the Christmas story we leave out most every year. The part where Herod realizes that the magi aren't coming back to report and tries to solve the problem of not knowing which baby is the new king by just killing them all. Hard to imagine a bigger emotional roller coaster than " Messiah is finally here" to all the babies in town (boy babies at least) have just been slaughtered. And I don't know what I'd say to them if I could go back in time and meet them because somehow, I don't think that any amount of explaining to them who Jesus was and how important he was is going to make them ok with the fact that their babies died because Jesus was born in their town. But I do know that, that was the part of the story that most resonated with me on a particularly down year, and I came to realize that, that was Christmas too, maybe the most relatable part of Christmas for a good number of people every year. And I also know that as pain and suffering hit close to home and I have to wrestle with them, my understanding of God and the complexities of life and how he rules deepens. I don't think the question why can ever receive quite a satisfying answer, but as we look back on stories like Christmas, Joseph, Hannah and Sarah longing to have a baby, 400 years of hebrew slavery in egypt, and other Biblical stories, we can see that God in his sovereignty wastes nothing and is far more creative with the good he can bring out of our pain, than we would have ever imagined.
Don't stop asking the tough questions and don't settle for trite answers, wrestling with this stuff is how we come to know God better.
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Hi Gabe,
I was thinking a little more about this thread today. I don't know if any of this will help you, but here goes.
I know that when I was growing up in the Lutheran schools and church, I liked to ask a lot of questions similar to what you're asking here.
I was always told to "look at Job", and all he suffered, and how he didn't lose his faith. It seemed that this was always the go-to answer, at least at my church and school. Upset about the world today? "Look at Job, and all the evil he suffered!" Problems with your health or family? "Look at Job, he lost his family AND his health, and yet, he still followed God?" Stubbed your toe while walking into the classroom? "Look at Job! He didn't murmur or complain, he just gave thanks to God?"
It became obvious that the universal answer (at least in that community) was to "Look at Job".
And so, when I got to be a little older, I did something I don't think anyone ever thought I would actually do: I sat down and read the book of Job (and the rest of the Bible) for myself.
And do you know what I found? Job was human. Job didn't just sit there quietly the whole time, but indeed got upset, and though he kept his faith, he got so mad that at one point, he even cursed the day he was born. Job did not just piously thank God for every horrible thing that happened to him.
But the most curious thing I found is that if you look closely, Job's friends came and told him... All the exact same things that many Christian circles tell us today. His friends told him, "Who are you to question God? He is too wondrous for you to even speak of," and surely Job must have some hidden sin that was the cause for all this calamity. But Job flatly told them that they were "miserable counselors" and pretty much says, "If you don't have anything better to say, don't say anything to me at all."
Now of course, God actually does show up and is the one to say, "If you know so much, can YOU answer all the things I'm about to ask you?" BUT, curiously, in the end, God tells Job to pray FOR HIS FRIENDS, because God says that they have angered Him and "not said what was right about Me, as my servant Job has." I often puzzled over why God was angry with Job's friends, when they were telling him all the good, Christian things everyone else told me (and still tells us today.)
Could it be that it was because Job was honest with God about how he felt, rather than glossing his true feelings over with pious-sounding cliches? Did Job's friends actually have all the same questions he had, but felt it was better and "the spiritual thing to do" by telling Job he had no right to question God, when in their own hearts, maybe they were silencing their own questions?
I had to wonder if all those people who told me to "look at Job"... had actually ever read the book of Job themselves, or if I was misunderstanding everything I was reading.
My point here is that people, even those who were closest to God, have been questioning Him from the beginning of time, and while there are probably innumerable things we can't understand or never will in this life or ever, God never seems to tire of our questions, which is something I love most about Him.
The prophet Habakkuk asked many of the same questions you're asking, Gabe: "How long, Lord, must I call to You for help and You do not listen, or cry out to You about violence and You do not save? Why do You force me to look at injustice? Why do You tolerate wrongdoing? Your eyes are too pure to look on evil, and You cannot tolerate wrongdoing. So why do You tolerate those who are treacherous?" (Habakkuk 1: 2,3,13.)
And God tells Habakkuk (2:2-4) -- "Write down this vision, clearly inscribe it on tablets so one may easily read it. For the vision is yet for the appointed time; it testifies about the end and will not lie. Though it delays, wait for it, since it will certainly come and not be late."
God basically tells Habakkuk, "I know you don't see it, and I know you can't fully understand it, but I'm going to do something about this, and you just have to trust me that it will come at an appointed time."
And as for the little ones who suffer, Jesus Himself said that if anyone caused them to stumble, it would be "better for them to have a millstone tied around their neck and be thrown into the sea." (Matt. 18:6.)
God doesn't miss or overlook anything, Gabe. And He knows you are questioning Him with an honest heart, which seems to be a lot more important to God than telling Him what we are told is best to say.
Don't give up. God knows. Waiting for that "appointed time" when God will set things right sure seems like a bummer, but as Christians, we have faith that we know that day will eventually come, which is probably one of the reasons why He allows things to happen as they do. If we didn't see all the wrong this world does, we wouldn't be able to see the difference when God sets it right.
I've also heard that this world "is the closest to heaven an unbeliever will ever know, and for the believer, this is the closest to hell they will ever get."
I know the waiting seems horrible, Gabe. But please don't give up, and may God bless you as you seek Him and wait.
I was thinking a little more about this thread today. I don't know if any of this will help you, but here goes.
I know that when I was growing up in the Lutheran schools and church, I liked to ask a lot of questions similar to what you're asking here.
I was always told to "look at Job", and all he suffered, and how he didn't lose his faith. It seemed that this was always the go-to answer, at least at my church and school. Upset about the world today? "Look at Job, and all the evil he suffered!" Problems with your health or family? "Look at Job, he lost his family AND his health, and yet, he still followed God?" Stubbed your toe while walking into the classroom? "Look at Job! He didn't murmur or complain, he just gave thanks to God?"
It became obvious that the universal answer (at least in that community) was to "Look at Job".
And so, when I got to be a little older, I did something I don't think anyone ever thought I would actually do: I sat down and read the book of Job (and the rest of the Bible) for myself.
And do you know what I found? Job was human. Job didn't just sit there quietly the whole time, but indeed got upset, and though he kept his faith, he got so mad that at one point, he even cursed the day he was born. Job did not just piously thank God for every horrible thing that happened to him.
But the most curious thing I found is that if you look closely, Job's friends came and told him... All the exact same things that many Christian circles tell us today. His friends told him, "Who are you to question God? He is too wondrous for you to even speak of," and surely Job must have some hidden sin that was the cause for all this calamity. But Job flatly told them that they were "miserable counselors" and pretty much says, "If you don't have anything better to say, don't say anything to me at all."
Now of course, God actually does show up and is the one to say, "If you know so much, can YOU answer all the things I'm about to ask you?" BUT, curiously, in the end, God tells Job to pray FOR HIS FRIENDS, because God says that they have angered Him and "not said what was right about Me, as my servant Job has." I often puzzled over why God was angry with Job's friends, when they were telling him all the good, Christian things everyone else told me (and still tells us today.)
Could it be that it was because Job was honest with God about how he felt, rather than glossing his true feelings over with pious-sounding cliches? Did Job's friends actually have all the same questions he had, but felt it was better and "the spiritual thing to do" by telling Job he had no right to question God, when in their own hearts, maybe they were silencing their own questions?
I had to wonder if all those people who told me to "look at Job"... had actually ever read the book of Job themselves, or if I was misunderstanding everything I was reading.
My point here is that people, even those who were closest to God, have been questioning Him from the beginning of time, and while there are probably innumerable things we can't understand or never will in this life or ever, God never seems to tire of our questions, which is something I love most about Him.
The prophet Habakkuk asked many of the same questions you're asking, Gabe: "How long, Lord, must I call to You for help and You do not listen, or cry out to You about violence and You do not save? Why do You force me to look at injustice? Why do You tolerate wrongdoing? Your eyes are too pure to look on evil, and You cannot tolerate wrongdoing. So why do You tolerate those who are treacherous?" (Habakkuk 1: 2,3,13.)
And God tells Habakkuk (2:2-4) -- "Write down this vision, clearly inscribe it on tablets so one may easily read it. For the vision is yet for the appointed time; it testifies about the end and will not lie. Though it delays, wait for it, since it will certainly come and not be late."
God basically tells Habakkuk, "I know you don't see it, and I know you can't fully understand it, but I'm going to do something about this, and you just have to trust me that it will come at an appointed time."
And as for the little ones who suffer, Jesus Himself said that if anyone caused them to stumble, it would be "better for them to have a millstone tied around their neck and be thrown into the sea." (Matt. 18:6.)
God doesn't miss or overlook anything, Gabe. And He knows you are questioning Him with an honest heart, which seems to be a lot more important to God than telling Him what we are told is best to say.
Don't give up. God knows. Waiting for that "appointed time" when God will set things right sure seems like a bummer, but as Christians, we have faith that we know that day will eventually come, which is probably one of the reasons why He allows things to happen as they do. If we didn't see all the wrong this world does, we wouldn't be able to see the difference when God sets it right.
I've also heard that this world "is the closest to heaven an unbeliever will ever know, and for the believer, this is the closest to hell they will ever get."
I know the waiting seems horrible, Gabe. But please don't give up, and may God bless you as you seek Him and wait.
Hi Bob,
It appears that you can receive messages, so I sent you a PM here on the site.
I'm no Bible scholar for sure, just a regular person who tries to read the Bible, so I don't know if I'd have any answers that might be helpful, but if not, I might be able to suggest someone here who might.
Best wishes to you and I hope you find the answers you are seeking.
It appears that you can receive messages, so I sent you a PM here on the site.
I'm no Bible scholar for sure, just a regular person who tries to read the Bible, so I don't know if I'd have any answers that might be helpful, but if not, I might be able to suggest someone here who might.
Best wishes to you and I hope you find the answers you are seeking.
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zero, I am really sorry to hear that you have been dealing with some hard things. I do think questions like this can make the other struggles feel even more burdensome. It can be hard to imagine how God would allow such horrendous things to happen to us or to other people. How can that be considered love?
I have come to a point where I do not think there is ever going to be a hard and fast answer to the question of evil, and while I do not think that philosophizing pain is all that helpful, I will say, for what it is worth, that I believe the existence of evil is a very strong indicator of the existence of God. I do not think we can point to any one single reason for why God allows evil to prevail in certain situations. You cannot really say, "God allowed that person to die because...." I also am not sure that we can reconcile completely why these things happen, but there have been a few things that have helped me at least come to grips with the fact that these things happen.
-2 Corinthians 1:3-4 talks about how God "comforts us in all our affliction" so that we can be a comfort to others as well. It seems like there is a strong theme throughout the New Testament especially related to bearing each other's burdens. I like that, if I am going to go through something painful, at least some good can come out of it in that I can be a support to someone who is going through something similar. I also truly believe that safe, social interaction with other people is so key to our own spiritual, mental, physical, and emotional health, and seeking out support from others when I have gone through a hard time has been immensely helpful for me.
-I think this one gets thrown out there a lot, but I don't think it's that helpful on its own which is why I'm including it in a list of a few things. I do think that God has reasons that are good in every sense of the word behind why He allows us to endure what we do, and we just do not possess the ability to see or understand it. I liken it to the way that a child can get upset and has no idea why his/her parent would allow them to undergo the pain of say, a flu shot, or not giving them the toy that they really want. And I don't mean this in a condescending way as though if you are angry at God, that you are like a child. I mean it in the sense of the level of understanding. If you think about the gap in understanding that exists between a child and his/her parents, how much more of a gap is there between us and God.
To turn the analogy around for a second, though, consider how much love a parent has for his/her child. Or if you have children, consider the love you have for them, or the love you would have for a child if you had one. It would more than likely be a love that extends to the depths of your soul, probably unlike anything you have ever felt. The affection you would have for that child would be immense. And if you are capable of loving your child that way, how much deeper is God's love and affection for you? A parent feels the pain his/her child is feeling and wants to take it away immediately, but in the case of something like a flu shot (don't @ me, anti-vax people...lol), you know that ultimately it is for their greater good. To be perfectly honest, I do struggle to trust God with things like this because I can't see the big picture, but when I think about the depth of love and affection that He has for me as His child, and that love and affection exists for you too, it is comforting.
-This is a little related to my last point, but I just think it is worth pointing out that any suffering or pain we endure is not meaningless, and that is something that comforts me greatly. I would be so much more furious if I were senselessly enduring pain, but I know that God is masterful at taking something that man or Satan intends for evil and turns it into something good. We have that promise too when the Bible says that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him. It takes a level of trust that is difficult to get to sometimes, but it is comforting to know that God is going to use a horrible situation for ultimate good. I think it is easy, especially in times of suffering, to forget that we already know the end of the story, and it is that Christ wins. And so when we wake up and fight our battles every day, we can do so knowing for certain that we are on the winning team, and the evil that has caused this suffering is going to be ultimately destroyed once and for all.
-I read a book once called The Reason for God by Tim Keller, and he uses a chapter to address the problem of evil. He uses an analogy that I appreciated where he talks about those times when you are asleep and have a horrible nightmare. Someone you love dies or gets hurt or you get hurt, and you genuinely feel despair in that moment. But then you wake up, and you realize it was just a dream, and a feeling of relief and calm washes over you, and you realize that the horrible reality you just experienced is no longer true. He likens heaven to being that way, and he quotes Lord of the Rings in talking about it. There is a point in the books where Samwise Gamgee asks Gandalf, "Is everything sad going to come untrue?" And that's basically what our new reality will be in heaven. Everything sad is going to come untrue. The Lord of the Rings gets me every time because it is such a painfully long, grueling journey from start to end. Even watching the movies it feels at times like it's never going to end, and the first time I watched it I kind of grew frustrated with it a little bit. And then comes the point where it is all over, evil has been vanquished, and good has won. It is so emotional for me because I think it is such a picture of the human experience walking through life. It feels so frustratingly long and hard at times, and there are so many trials and difficulties to endure, and I have such a longing for that point where it is all going to be over and I don't have to fight my sinful tendencies anymore or deal with anymore loss or heartache. Having an eternal perspective like this helps me tremendously, not just in walking through another day, but in trusting God with all of the bad because not only did He make a place where we can spend eternity in rest with Him, but He made a way for us to get there and experience perfect relationship with Him. When you think about the extreme contrast between what heaven is like and what our sinful world is like, it is amazing in and of itself that Jesus would leave heaven to enter this world. But then he endured all of the temptations that we endure and he endured extreme torture and pain so that he could make a way for us to have perfect relationship with him when our time on earth is done. So not only does he personally and experientially know the pain we are going through, but he has made a way for us to never have to endure it again. Just trying to keep that long view that heaven is coming and that everything sad is going to come untrue helps me a lot on the days when I am just trying to make it through.
Sorry this turned into such a long post, but I hope something in what I said was helpful. I will be praying that you will find some comfort and healing in the struggles you are working through, zero. Don't ever feel bad for doubting or for asking questions. You can't gain wisdom and find answers without questions.
I have come to a point where I do not think there is ever going to be a hard and fast answer to the question of evil, and while I do not think that philosophizing pain is all that helpful, I will say, for what it is worth, that I believe the existence of evil is a very strong indicator of the existence of God. I do not think we can point to any one single reason for why God allows evil to prevail in certain situations. You cannot really say, "God allowed that person to die because...." I also am not sure that we can reconcile completely why these things happen, but there have been a few things that have helped me at least come to grips with the fact that these things happen.
-2 Corinthians 1:3-4 talks about how God "comforts us in all our affliction" so that we can be a comfort to others as well. It seems like there is a strong theme throughout the New Testament especially related to bearing each other's burdens. I like that, if I am going to go through something painful, at least some good can come out of it in that I can be a support to someone who is going through something similar. I also truly believe that safe, social interaction with other people is so key to our own spiritual, mental, physical, and emotional health, and seeking out support from others when I have gone through a hard time has been immensely helpful for me.
-I think this one gets thrown out there a lot, but I don't think it's that helpful on its own which is why I'm including it in a list of a few things. I do think that God has reasons that are good in every sense of the word behind why He allows us to endure what we do, and we just do not possess the ability to see or understand it. I liken it to the way that a child can get upset and has no idea why his/her parent would allow them to undergo the pain of say, a flu shot, or not giving them the toy that they really want. And I don't mean this in a condescending way as though if you are angry at God, that you are like a child. I mean it in the sense of the level of understanding. If you think about the gap in understanding that exists between a child and his/her parents, how much more of a gap is there between us and God.
To turn the analogy around for a second, though, consider how much love a parent has for his/her child. Or if you have children, consider the love you have for them, or the love you would have for a child if you had one. It would more than likely be a love that extends to the depths of your soul, probably unlike anything you have ever felt. The affection you would have for that child would be immense. And if you are capable of loving your child that way, how much deeper is God's love and affection for you? A parent feels the pain his/her child is feeling and wants to take it away immediately, but in the case of something like a flu shot (don't @ me, anti-vax people...lol), you know that ultimately it is for their greater good. To be perfectly honest, I do struggle to trust God with things like this because I can't see the big picture, but when I think about the depth of love and affection that He has for me as His child, and that love and affection exists for you too, it is comforting.
-This is a little related to my last point, but I just think it is worth pointing out that any suffering or pain we endure is not meaningless, and that is something that comforts me greatly. I would be so much more furious if I were senselessly enduring pain, but I know that God is masterful at taking something that man or Satan intends for evil and turns it into something good. We have that promise too when the Bible says that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him. It takes a level of trust that is difficult to get to sometimes, but it is comforting to know that God is going to use a horrible situation for ultimate good. I think it is easy, especially in times of suffering, to forget that we already know the end of the story, and it is that Christ wins. And so when we wake up and fight our battles every day, we can do so knowing for certain that we are on the winning team, and the evil that has caused this suffering is going to be ultimately destroyed once and for all.
-I read a book once called The Reason for God by Tim Keller, and he uses a chapter to address the problem of evil. He uses an analogy that I appreciated where he talks about those times when you are asleep and have a horrible nightmare. Someone you love dies or gets hurt or you get hurt, and you genuinely feel despair in that moment. But then you wake up, and you realize it was just a dream, and a feeling of relief and calm washes over you, and you realize that the horrible reality you just experienced is no longer true. He likens heaven to being that way, and he quotes Lord of the Rings in talking about it. There is a point in the books where Samwise Gamgee asks Gandalf, "Is everything sad going to come untrue?" And that's basically what our new reality will be in heaven. Everything sad is going to come untrue. The Lord of the Rings gets me every time because it is such a painfully long, grueling journey from start to end. Even watching the movies it feels at times like it's never going to end, and the first time I watched it I kind of grew frustrated with it a little bit. And then comes the point where it is all over, evil has been vanquished, and good has won. It is so emotional for me because I think it is such a picture of the human experience walking through life. It feels so frustratingly long and hard at times, and there are so many trials and difficulties to endure, and I have such a longing for that point where it is all going to be over and I don't have to fight my sinful tendencies anymore or deal with anymore loss or heartache. Having an eternal perspective like this helps me tremendously, not just in walking through another day, but in trusting God with all of the bad because not only did He make a place where we can spend eternity in rest with Him, but He made a way for us to get there and experience perfect relationship with Him. When you think about the extreme contrast between what heaven is like and what our sinful world is like, it is amazing in and of itself that Jesus would leave heaven to enter this world. But then he endured all of the temptations that we endure and he endured extreme torture and pain so that he could make a way for us to have perfect relationship with him when our time on earth is done. So not only does he personally and experientially know the pain we are going through, but he has made a way for us to never have to endure it again. Just trying to keep that long view that heaven is coming and that everything sad is going to come untrue helps me a lot on the days when I am just trying to make it through.
Sorry this turned into such a long post, but I hope something in what I said was helpful. I will be praying that you will find some comfort and healing in the struggles you are working through, zero. Don't ever feel bad for doubting or for asking questions. You can't gain wisdom and find answers without questions.
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