Hardshell & Primitive Baptist "Conditional Time Salvation" Warning

Anti-evangelism is what sprung this sect into being so it is the teaching of all of them. This started at a split and now we have PB's and Missionary Baptist churches. Of course there could be a group somewhere among them that teach against this. According to the PB false gospel people are already converted worldwide and they don't need to hear or believe the gospel, nor have faith in Christ, nor even have the faith at all to enter eternal life. If they believe in any afterlife it's because they're "already converted."

Please read the OP and posts #149-#150 if you have not already. I dislike having to say this yet it needs to be said, and others can attest to this, FGC has been bearing false witness throughout this thread and has been called on this by others and myself.

I don't know the history of it, but that is interesting. I was thinking of the issue of whether local churches should work together on missions societies, but I think something like that was a disagreement in the Restoration Movement associated with Campbell, maybe when he wasn't around anymore, or they weren't around anymore. I don't know.

So you know what I must ask you? The same things? Were you an eyewitness of myself? There is no way you came up with pure PB teaching having never heard of it before. I was born in the morning, just not this morning.



I am only calling you out for bearing false witness and saying what I believe when attempts were made to correct you.



Come on, man! First off, this isn't Biblical methodology or ways of God these days, he did this with Paul, apostles and prophets. Instead he has equipped the church for this and we do learn from man, something you loathe at least to the point of presenting yourself as having received special personal revelation.

Where did you go to church when you say Scripture contradicted themselves in those then held beliefs? Something isn't adding up right bro, there is more to it. It's not like you're an apostle and received direct revelation and that "somehow" you used PB catch phrases and terminology after receiving it.

Here is another thing. You say the so-called great commission was given to the apostles and fulfilled and was for them. Right?

This is PB teaching though. Yet you claim the exhortation of Christ that the Spirit would lead them into all truth, making that truth applicable to yourself, correct? But that is an inconsistent hermeneutic -- it is cherry picking Scripture. How so? Through the PB lens brother because they teach the exact same thing! You cannot lay claim to one thing given them then reject the other, and the reason you reject the one and not the other is because it is PB indoctrination coming through.

I'm saying no way. Not trying to offend, I just do not buy it -- you heard something and went with it. You did not receive a Pauline like special revelation you were reading materials, seeing it on the web, you got it somewhere.

This too, there is contradiction in your understanding, these have been addressed, so you have not harmonized all of Scripture which tells me that from the get go you got it all from PB's because that too is one of their cliches.



I've not lied about you or your beliefs. But, you want me to apologize? Brother, I have not misrepresented one belief of the PB's. I am a sinner, yes, for sure, but that isn't what I am doing here in this thread.

Can God’s saved people live a life of unrepentant sinning for years? Can they fall back into their old lifestyle and die in this unrepentant state and still be welcomed in by God with open arms? That is what I am asking you my friend.

Yes, I corrected your accusation brother. My friend, I have not lied about you.

Several times you've said what "we" believe and attempts to correct you were offered.

Is it possible dear friend that you've been told what we believe, and are bringing those presuppositions in your polemic?

Is it then possible that you could be wrong in your assertions at least concerning myself and other Calvinist brothers in this thread?

Can I tell you that yes, some others do believe the things you've stated (the natural man can basically save himself by his will, sinless perfection &c) but that no true Calvinist believes these things? Therefore you're incorrect in saying we believe them? Is that fair?

I don't know the history of it, but that is interesting. I was thinking of the issue of whether local churches should work together on missions societies, but I think something like that was a disagreement in the Restoration Movement associated with Campbell, maybe when he wasn't around anymore, or they weren't around anymore. I don't know.

I am going to ask you again about your claim of something you say that I believe. Where did I ever say; THE NATURAL MAN CAN BASICALLY SAVE HIMSELF BY HIS WILL, SINLESS PERFECTION &c? You claim that you do not misrepresent what I say. Give me the post # of that misrepresented statement.

@ForestGreenCook



Will you please answer this my friend?

I must reiterate that I've not thrown any assumptions, none, about PB beliefs. I cannot brother say that about you toward us.

And you never addressed this: I stated some may believe what you assert, yet we Calvinists do not believe the things you've asserted on us. Why not man up and own up that you are incorrect? You want an honest discussion without owning up to the things you've said that are false.

You've also not owned the fact that repentance and faith are NOT works of man. You're incorrect in this, and you need to accept that.

But said is a teaching that is foundational to all your other beliefs. All you've done since is dismiss it as unimportant when shown to be incorrect. This is why I continue to show you that you merely skip past these important factors and won't look at the error you're being shown.

That isn't being forthright brother. It is THE foundation of your rejection of belief in the Gospel being to eternal salvation. THE foundation because the reason you reject it is because you say, wrongly, those are works of man so the belief via the Gospel cannot be eternal salvation. So far you just want to brush that under the rug along with other things. I'm really trying brother, you just cannot brush these things off.

The church that Jesus set up in his day was never a part of the RCC and therefore never a part of the restoration movement.

Read this. It’s the Black Rock address of 1832, from Black Rock, Maryland.

http://baptiststudiesonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/black-rock-address.pdf

I have always took the stand that repentance and faith is a product of regeneration.

Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit that is given in regeneration. repentance and faith is not a part of the natural man's ability.

You are reading something into 1 Cor 2:14 that is not there.

I have always took the stand that repentance and faith is a product of regeneration. Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit that is given in regeneration. repentance and faith is not a part of the natural man's ability.

You are reading something into 1 Cor 2:14 that is not there.

And we also agree with this. Regeneration also involves the imparting of faith and repentance to that individual at the very moment one is regenerated.

Yes!! Precisely!! We agree with this! Hallelujah! Amen!

Now, seeing we are justified by faith as Romans 5:1 testifies to, that means people are justified by faith, declared righteous before God by this very faith gifted to them via regeneration. Carry that over to Romans 10:17 "So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ." When one is regenerated by God, He does this via His word. So, no one is regenerated and then later on hears the gospel and is saved.

No he is not my friend.

I was looking over the part about missions societies. It sounds like some of the concerns were about the situation in their time. Why did he consider the members of missions societies to be unregenerate? Other concerns were about there being a 'president' of the missions society and other lofty titles. He seemed in favor of local churches sending out missionaries and embraced what we now refer to as 'the great commission' as being for the churches.

Anyway, I heard of a similar contraversy in congregations that go by 'churches of Christ' from someone in that movement, but given the time period, they could have been involved in pretty much the same debate as the primitive Baptists. Was there any direct influence of primitive Baptists on the Campbells? Many of those congregations do not have musical instruments either.

This has not been his belief, he's trying to wiggle his way out of the death blow given to his false gospel bro. Think it through.

Um...

Bro? He's drawing you in while changing his story since I've proven his false gospel foundation is crumbling. He has not taught this all along.

He denies justification by faith being a part of eternal salvation bro. Therefore his understanding of justification via the Gospel is false.

Correct, never happened.

I am going where he is leading and every place he takes me...And everywhere he takes me, I follow him...I am just taking him everywhere he leads me, I follow him...

This is like a bad take on "Where He Leads Me I will Follow."

And we also agree with this. Regeneration also involves the imparting of faith and repentance to that individual at the very moment one is regenerated.




Yes!! Precisely!! We agree with this! Hallelujah! Amen!

Now, seeing we are justified by faith as Romans 5:1 testifies to, that means people are justified by faith, declared righteous before God by this very faith gifted to them via regeneration. Carry that over to Romans 10:17 "So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ." When one is regenerated by God, He does this via His word. So, no one is regenerated and then later on hears the gospel and is saved.


No he is not my friend.

So, then you are in agreement with me that the natural man has the ability to hear the gospel when he is regenerated and not before he is regenerated. Regeneration is done by the grace of God which is the actuality of the covenant salvation which was accomplished on the cross. Regeneration being the instrument of bringing to fruition of the miracle of eternal salvation even though having the ability to believe in the gospel happens at the same time. Eternal salvation is by the sovereign grace of God without the actions of man.