Not By Works

Well if preaching in Christ's name is a "LAWLESS" work, then many are in trouble. If helping folks with problems and demons in His Name is a Lawless Work, then Jesus doesn't know very many "Christians" does He.

He is speaking of the Laws He created as the Word of God, Yes? That we were taught from the very beginning. "Love God and Love you Brother as thyself" Not as Cain who hated Abel because He loved God and his work's were accepted but God didn't accept Cain's. Isn't this the foundation for all the law and Prophets in your belief?

He doesn't tell us what the "Lawless" works were. But because God has shown you and I His Law we should be able to tell if someone is breaking them, Yes?.

How about a man who claims to be filled with the spirit of God, who goes in a great building, built in His Name and preaches in His name, but secretly turns around and molests little boys and girls in his free time.

Could this be an example of "Lawless works" according to the Word of God which became Flesh?

How about a man who claims to be saved by the Blood of Jesus, but uses tithes that poor widows give to his church to enrich himself and his family. In your religion, would this be considered "Lawlessness"?

How about building great churches in His Name with Glass ceilings, and marble floors all in His Name, but setting up images of God in the likeness of fire, or fish, or a long haired playgirl centerfold, naked and bleeding with Christ's name on it? Would this be considered "Lawlessness" in your religion?

How about creating a religion in His name, calling Him Lord, Lord but rejecting His Sabbaths and creating their own religious High Days which they derive from ancient Pagan festivals, and placing the Christ's Name on it. Would this be "Lawless Work"?

A man could go on and on.

I have asked you, and "many" on this forum these very questions and no one wants to answer. Why?

Jesus also asked these same questions of those who taught in God's name in His Time.

"But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God ( practice lawlessness) by your tradition?

Since Jesus said by their works you shall know them, these seem valid questions. Also note, He didn't say "THEY" would know by their own fruits, He said we would know. (deception is an evil thing)

This I can agree with. These people may have claimed an interest in the Christ with their lips. They call Him Lord, Lord with their lips. But by their works they "Denied Him". Not by teaching in His Name, there is no law against this work. But their traditions and doctrines which came, not from God but from man.

I don't believe the Pharisees knew they were serving satan, any more that those in Matt. 7 thought they were serving satan. But if they were claiming Jesus as their Savior, but living in Lawlessness, then surely satan had a hand in it.

It fit's together will all other scriptures perfectly.

Wolf, a man living in Lawlessness, but acting like a "Sheep", someone who claims the Christ as their Shepherd.

And how did Jesus say "we" discern them. By their words? What they say, by their defense of their religion as those in matt 7 did. No Billy, Jesus said we would know then by their "works", whether they are "Lawless" or not,

He says the same thing in another place.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Glory be to God, He didn’t stop 🛑 there, He continued, God still spoke to us in that same epistle, with 4 more chapters..

This is what the flesh does, it takes the part that satisfies its self and throw away the other parts. God is one, His word is one. These messages I’ve posted are self-sufficient because these messages are not mine, but of God, so whoever wished to meddle with God’s word, and hide the truth of God in unrighteousness just to satisfy the carnal flesh, Such soul, is inviting the wrath of God.
May God’s mercy be upon such unto repentance.

They cl
They claimed he made himselft equal with God, because thty didn’t understand The spirit of God. Just as some today because they do not understand Christ, bring up false doctrines. Also, after that verse, Jesus replied, and said He is the son of God, not according to Words of unbelievers who judge unrighteously..

John 10:33-36 (KJV)
The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

God also made it very clear to us in

1 Corinthians 15:28 (KJV)
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

When one does not understand the bible, instead of usiing the flesh to form new doctrines and going into the depths of satanic/fleshy doctrines, such one should seek more of God’s word by going to other scriptures.

The scriptures is not about what you think, or what you believe, it s about what God thinks, and how God wants us to see it..

HE is the author, so he guides us through, not us dictating for Him how it should be.

Yes he did, But he did not contradict himself

John did not say, If I come to you and claim I am without sin, I am decieved and there is no truth in me, Then later say, I am saved so I can not sin.

Anyone who understands what true sin is, KNOWS they are not sinless. Paul did. John did. WHy is it so many others think they are sinless. Where does this thinking come from?

="BillG, post: 3794518, member: 252071"]What are these disobedient works?

Cont.


We know that works will be judged yet we also know


1 Corinthians 3:9-15

9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

And who is Jesus Christ? Is He not the Word of God which became Flesh? Did He not give Abraham instruction? Did He not give us the two Greatest Laws, Love God and Love each other? Are these not the very foundation of the Law and Prophets He came, not to destroy but to preserve?

did Paul believe in the same Foundation the Christ gave us?

Acts 24:
13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

These are the "Oracles" of God yes? The Foundation of God, the Christ, the Word which became Flesh.

12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Builds on this foundation, not a religion which gives lip serving to the Christ, but practices lawlessness. Those who do that, though they claim Jesus as their Savior, He says He doesn't know them.

Which confirms what Jesus said Matthew 7:24-27 "Build on the Rock"
(Luke 6:47–49)

24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, (the opposite of Lawlessness) I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.

And who was this Rock?

1 cor. 10:
1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

6 Now these things were our examples, (Foundation) to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

And what was it they did to cause their fall Billy? Did they not create images of God which is a Lawless work? Did they not create their own "Feasts unto the Lord" which is a lawless work?

26 “But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.”

Surely you can see why those of old fell. They called God, Lord, Lord, they served Him with their lips, but they practiced "Lawlessness".

Why???? Because they didn't believe in the Christ who gave them instructions, they had created "another".


The Will of the Father is to believe in His Son, the Light of the World, who He sent into the World from the very beginning, The Word of God which became Flesh.





Duet. 30:
19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I (The Christ, the Rock) have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Because He loved us enough to:

To expose the Mainstream religion which had turned so many against Him, to save those who were lost because of this false teaching, to fulfill His Promise to remove the Levitical Priesthood man had corrupted (Finding fault with them) and replace it with Himself. To become the perfect sacrifice for those who would Love Him and "DO" as He says.

,

Because He loved us enough to

To show the extent of the wickedness of man, to fulfill what was written about Him, to take our sins away so we can have another chance to "SERVE" Him acceptable to God.

He made a "show" openly of those mainstream religious leaders who claimed by their law He should die, but their Law couldn't hold Him. He triumphed over the mainstream religious doctrines and traditions of the land that condemned Him, the gentiles that turned to him, Paul and anyone else who believe "all things" in the Law and Prophets. To show once and for all that the narrow Path He walked truly does lead to eternity as the Law and Prophets teach.. And that through Him, we too can be reconciled.

We are to "Believe" in the Christ of the Bible.

If He says the bite of a Cobra will kill me, and I still walk right up to the cobra and grab it with no fear, do I believe Him? No, my works would show I really don't believe Him.

If He says He created His Sabbath for man, and I reject His Sabbath, do I believe in Him? No, If I truly "believed" in Him, I would do as He says.

I don't see how Faith or belief can exist without obedient works. He didn't either. "If you Love Me, keep My Commandments"

A self righteous heart

The problem is too many think they have to earn salvation. That blinds them to the gift of God using grace.

I know, I was giving additional verses, because NON - Trintarians are taught how to deny that is Biblical. I think it is as Plain as the Nose on your face: "in the NAME" [SINGULAR] "of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit". That person denies HIS DEITY, and that Jesus was only 100% man.

You need to turn back to God Studyman, you are following the same path as the Pharisee's "a self-righteous man made religion", which makes everyone who follows their religious lie twice the son's of hell than they are.

Matthew23:15
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a son of hell as you are.

God's Works are righteous whether you reject them or not. Man's unbelief has zero effect on the righteousness of God's Words. By me following His Word's with all my heart and soul, I am not establishing His Righteousness. His Righteousness was established from the very beginning. He is righteous, regardless of whether I follow Him or not, His Works are Righteousness whether I believe they are or not. Romans makes my point.

They didn't submit to God's Righteousness, they created their own just like Jesus said they did.

But if you have been convinced of the insidious lie that the Pharisees were trying to earn Salvation by obeying God, then this explains how you might believe God's Word is Holy until man submits himself to them, then they became filthy works.

Psalms 119:
171 My lips shall utter praise, when thou hast taught me thy statutes.
172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.

173 Let thine hand help me; for I have chosen thy precepts. (Not the religious doctrines of man.)

174 I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight. (Not against us and a burden as "many" preach)




Luke 1:6, And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

this is how the Spirit of Christ defines Zechariahs who knew Jesus when He came.

Matt. 15:
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Not God as you preach)

This is how the Spirit defines Paul and His Religious leaders who DIDN'T KNOW HIM when He came.

Why do you willfully "omit" these truths about Paul before his conversion?

it is by faith in a righteousness that is not of ourselves.

Click to expand...

Yes, a righteousness created by God, not a Righteousness created by man as did the Pharisees. It's in your Bible, all you have to do is believe.



Again, to justify your religious lifestyle you make this statement. That you can somehow trust God's Righteousness until you walk in them as commanded, then God's Righteousness become our own Righteousness and thus relegates them to filthy rags. So listening, hearing His Righteousness is all that is needed, because if we "DO" what HE says, God's Righteous Works become unrighteous.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

But not in your religion.

All this because you have been convinced that the problem with the Pharisees wasn't that they rejected God's righteous instruction as Jesus clearly pointed out, but because they tried to please God by obeying Him.

I don't understand this. I seriously don't.

Why is it so difficult for some Christians to accept that salvation is a gift that cannot to earned or maintained by our works? To do so destroys the very notion it is a gift.

To say one "must" or "will" do good works after salvation to somehow "prove" one is really saved is adding to the simple gospel message of only "believe".

No one has ever been able to give a concrete answer as to how many good works are required to "show" one is truly saved. For some, a few good works are fine as long as there is a "patten" of growth. For others, it's constant toil from sunup until sundown, while begging God for forgiveness for the slightest infraction.

Begging forgiveness for sins that have already been forgiven over 2,000 years ago!

No one has to prove anything. If one, at an instant in time, believed the offer from Jesus to grant eternal life to anyone who would take Him at His word in faith, they are saved from that moment forever, and can never be lost.

No matter what they do afterward.

Once again, no matter what they do afterward.

And yes, I'm one of those Christians who believe you don't have to promise to stop sinning, you don't have to read the Bible, you don't have to go to church or even share the gospel to "stay" or "prove" you're saved. God doesn't destroy a person's free will after they become Christians. They can still choose to sin - and do - every single day, and remain just as saved, just as righteous, and just as holy as the most devout Christian that ever walked the earth.

How?

Because we have imputed righteousness, holiness, and sinlessness from Jesus Himself - as His gift - with no strings attached.

Yet, our desires do change. We don't look at sin the way we did when we were unsaved. We have the yearning to live as we ought, but acting or not acting on those desires doesn't change our citizenship in heaven.

Jesus promised - and that's good enough for me.

And yet it is you who promote religions which create images of God in the likeness of some long haired Playgirl Centerfold and placed Jesus name on it, in direct violation of the first and greatest commandment.

It is you who promote a religion which rejects God's Sabbath in favor of a pagan High day some sun worshipper placed His name on some 350 years after He rose from the dead.

It is you who promote a religion which rejects the Feast's of the Christ, His Holy Days which set out His Salvation plan, in favor of more pagan High Days that man placed the Holy Name of the Christ on.

I already served your god once TT, and by Word of God which became Flesh, I have escaped your religion who "Practice" such things.

I wish it were not so, but it is. You might ask yourself, would Jesus ever do such things to His Father? Did He ever condone such "practice"? Of course He wouldn't.

By their fruits you shall know them.

Matt. 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work lawlessness.

But these are people he rejected as never knowing them.

I never said doing such things in Christs name was lawless works.
And I sure hope you are saying I am saying this.
I'm trying to address the verses of those who were rejected who claimed casting out demons and prophesying but were rejected.

That's why I asked the questions.

Yes it would.

Is that the same in your religion?

Yes, I am guilty of lawlessness, nothing I can do will erase that fact. Only Jesus can remove my lawlessness. I never said anything different.

The above is not the Jesus I follow but you seem so focused on everyone who disagrees with you follows such a Jesus.

Is that what your religion teaches you to say to people who disagree with you?
The above is actually pretty insulting.

"Long haired playgirl centrefold naked"

I hope your religion does not put pictures on the tracts that you are given to memorise and hand out.

Amen to that !!!!! That is the truth !!!

Most wont accept it tho , because they cant understand how they may be saved and doing all kinds of wonderful works , and yet that other saved person isnt , well how can that be they ask ? LOOK at me , and all I am doing and they aren't , they cant possible be saved like me .... sound familiar ?

They lack understanding of imputed righteousness as you said

Matt. 15:
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Yes, I suppose these Word's were insulting. And those who were offended by them worked to silence Him forever. But I think His intent was to shame them into considering their religion and how it insulted the God they claimed to serve while they were still alive and able to repent and turn to the God of the Bible.

Those in Matt. 7 waited to long to give God the respect He deserves and demands. It is God's Word which exposes the religious traditions of this land who promote their "lawless" practice. He did say to "Come out of her" Billy. Do you believe this is addressing a religion which strives to "Walk even as He walked, or a religion which "practices" the Lawlessness you and I both know exists in mainstream religions of the world today.

Guy, you've got nearly four thousand pages hoping to prove it isn't easy at all.

Everybody wants God to comport to the image and likeness they can get along with. Some people have the temerity to think they have to help God fulfill his promise.
In the end we could all be wrong and God sits there at our judgment asking one question before letting us in to a members only gated community. What did you learn?