Not By Works

Romans 7:25 is not an inescapable conclusion.

Chapter six and seven's context continues into eight as you say. However Paul proclaims in verse two of chapter eight His deliverance from the Law of sin and death which he claimed to be in service to through his flesh in verse 7:23, 25.

For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
(Rom 7:22-25)

Chapter seven's use of the word mind is dealing with head knowledge; knowing the law and desiring to serve it because you know it is good and makes sense to you to do so. This did not work for Paul nor will it work for us. The only way is Jesus Christ.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(Rom 8:1-4)

Paul claims he had been Made me free from the law of sin and death. No longer in captivity to the Law of sin which which is in His members. HE HAS BEEN MADE FREE! That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. (Rom 8:2-4; 6:6,7)

Set free from the Law of sin and death. Our old man crucified with with HIM that the Body of Sin be destroyed. That Hence forth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin through Jesus Christ. Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
(1Pe 2:24 KJV)

Are you saying you no longer sin - at all?

Aww. There ya go justifying your sin again. “My sin does not stink. Because my sins are oopsies and mistakes. I did not do them on purpose” do you think what you sound like when you say things like that to excuse your sin?

When we sin, we know what we are doing (granted a child baby christian may not know all sins. But he sins when he wants) But we do not sin on accident, we know what we are doing, to deny it is just crazy!

So you can not reaspond to what Paul said. I did not think you could or you would. You people have a habit that when people confront you with scriptural proof. You never respond. you just push it aside like it means nothing.
John 5 does not prove your point. Those who are BORN AGAIN do good (it is their nature) those who are NOT born again, do evil (it is all they know how to do) but hey, thanks for once again proving my point. ..

John said NO. Thats why they CAN NOT LOSE SALVATION. Because they CAN NOT LIVE AS THE WORLD LIVES.
If you understood the nature of a child of God vs ther nature of a non believer you would understand this, You somehow think a believer who is born of god Chasened by God. Made a new creature in christ can live as his old self. The fact is, Good to a non believer is poison (they can do morally good things but NOT in a righteous way) where sin to a believer is like poison. How long can you eat poison before you realise you need to stop. Because it is DAMAGING YOU?

Of course I HAVE BEEN SAYING THIS all along, the fact you still bring this up just PROVES your not listening to a word I have said.



Its a fact.

1. Not of works lest we BOAST, Why Can we BOAST? Because WE EARNED IT/ we did it ourselves
2. If Abraham was found by works, he has something to boast. But what does scripture say Abraham BELIEVED GOD..
3. NOT by works of righteousness which we have done But By His mercy.

Fo no scripture supporting my view, There sure is quite a bit

You can debate it all you want, You would lose.

One who earns his freedom does not need mercy. You give mercy to th ehopless who have nothing to offer.

You can say it all you want. Paul says those who think they are saved by the spirit, but must maintain their salvation by works are fools

Gal 3: Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

Who said I was not committed or did not want to? You have some nerve, Why do you think if you can not even UNDERSTAND what people are telling you you can try to TEACH them? Of course, you can not hear because you have no desire to. All you want to do is push your legalistic gospel of works down people throats so you refuse to listen to a word they say.

Shame on you

So let me get this straight, You no longer believe we can lose salvation based on sin correct?

Because if the answer is no, you still believe that. Then you just stated works are a bases of being saved.


Need to cut this into 2 responses as it is 2 large

James said if we break even one command. Our spiritual life has no greater or lesser sins. God seperated that some sins affect SOCIETY greater thus gave GREATER temporal punishments for those sins. But think about it Adam and Eve ate a furit off of a tree. And look at the resulting death to mankind and the earth.

And once again, please stop with your false accusations against me, I am not missing that point. I have said OVER AND OVER, TRUE FAITH is ALWAYS accompanied by TRUE WORKS.

So lie about me one more time why dont you!!


People overcome their sin because they KNOW they are forgiven, and they KNOW they aot kicked out of the family. And they KNOW God is going to do all he can to help them overcome that sin.
This gratitude is what KEEPS us focused on the spirit. And NOT focused on our sins.

I have seen it your way and all I saw was failure people giving up. People saying forget it. I can not live up to the standard no matter how hard I try.

Of course. Thats the point, You can not live up to Gods perfect standard. Thats why you ALWAYS need grace. So your left with continuing to trust Christ. Or lie to yourself and God and water down Gods law to a point you can live and fulfill it. Which sadly is what most people do!



Take your calvin glasses off dude. Not everyone who believes in grace believes in a lack of free will. Just like not everyone who preaches works follows arminian.

Just sit down, and listen to people. And you may learn something about them you never knew before.
God promised he would do it. It is his character and his reputation we are talking about here. Not mine. When I do stuff by my own power I fail. When I do it by Gods power I see victory. Not my vitory. But Gods.
It is not that I do not have free will. IT IS THAT I WOULD NEVER WANT TO RETURN TO WHAt I WAS BEFORE. Those who do that, as john said, were NEVER SAVED.
Ok I am done, How can you stand there and say you obey God when you continue to bear false witness against other people. You do realise that bearing false witness is a sin do you not? Yet you time after time after time bear false witness against others.

I have never, nor will I ever do what you claim here. This is a bold faced lie. Based on the fact you refuse to listen to people. You think you know it all. You think you now them, well news flash. You do not.

1. I demand an appology for your lies against me
2. If you refuse. I will forgive you ( I am not like the person you want God to be) but I will not respond to you ever again, because you have PROVEN to be untrustworthy, and a habitual liar.

Do you not know. You scream at me saying I am trying to excuse sin and say it is ok to live in sin (which is a lie) yet here you are HABITUALLY bearing false witness against me. According to your OWN theology. That makes you in danger of losing salvation.

You need to take a deep hard look inside dude.. Because you are in serious denial

Yet John said whoever claims to be part of the church and now rejects Christ (because he has shipwreched his faith) has never been part of the church, because of they had they NEVER would have left.

The fact is, Jesus said the moment a person is in an ACTIVE state of believe, they are given the promise they WILL NEVER DIE and that they HAVE eternal life.

You can not have eternal life if it can be lost. That is called CONDITIONAL LIFE

No church teaches this. If they did (and I have yet to find one) they would be denying the word.

You need to stop listening to you pastors get out in the world and find reality man.

I feel exactly the same way about you, word for word. This same disagreement was had between the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time, and Jesus and Paul as well.

Paul used the examples set forth in the Law and Prophets, as did the Christ, to show the difference between what the Word of God which became Flesh taught, and what the Mainstream Preachers of His time taught. In this way they exposed what was more important to them, their religion and religious tradition, or the Word of God.

For those who are interested in "proving that perfect Will of God" this was helpful and beneficial. But for those who were only interested in justifying their man made traditions which transgressed God's Commandments, not so much. They worked to silence anyone who would expose their religious traditions as from man and not from God.

Truly there is nothing new under the sun.

Yes EG. The leaders of the "broad" Path don't say "Come join us on the path to destruction", any more than modern churches say "Rebel against the Lord and you shall be saved". As you said "No church teaches this".

No, the religious leaders of the Broad path say "Come join us on the path to eternity" and modern churches teach "God's Law is not for the Christian".

As Jesus said of the Mainstream Preachers of His Time.

7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

"get out in the world and find reality"? When did Jesus ever even suggest a thing. The World isn't going to show us truth or reality EG. Only the Word of God which became Flesh. In Him is the only truth.

HIS WORDS are life. At least that is what He says if you are into that sort of thing.

By the way, I asm not sure the KJV is correct.(it seems ot be a repeat of verse 4) Thats why I leave it out.

But it does nto matter. Why?
Because those who are born again, Those with whome condemnation has been removed. DO WALK AFTER THE FLESH, it is part of WHO THEY ARE.

So instead of lying about others. And tryin gto pick them apart with nonsense in order to puff yourself up. Why do you not once again try to sit still for one minute, and listen to what they have to say, If your are confused ask a question. Do not tell them what they believe.
He has lied about a few of us. Thanks to all for confronting him on this lie..It works alot better when numerous people confront someone in sin.

I have already answered this question in the post you very cleverly refused to even address. Here, I'll post it again for you, and maybe we can actually have a bible discussion. And maybe you will offer me the same common courtesy in answering my questions as I did for you.

Of course I strive every day to "Depart from Iniquity". Don't you? shouldn't all who call Him Lord, Lord, strive to obey Him?


And I am more obedient today, than 27 years ago. Is that not "Growing in the Lord"? And shall I not learn obedience from the things I suffer like He learned obedience from the things He suffered? Am I not to suffer with Him?

Heb. 5:
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Is He not also making me perfect? Is He not the Author of my Faith and Salvation? Shall I listen to Him and obey?

2 Cor. 1: 5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ.
6 And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation.
7 And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.

Phil. 3:
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Heb. 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

I thought "departing iniquity" was "Growing in the Lord".

Do you believe folks who call Jesus their Lord, should depart from Lawlessness?

But "many" who come in His Name on this forum, call that "trying to save myself" and they preach against such behavior, calling anyone who would trust this Jesus names.

What spirit would want me to reject so much of what the Christ teaches just so modern religions and their man made religious traditions can be justified?

I'm not going to do it, I'm sticking with His Word's even if it makes the religious men of the modern religions of the land angry. It's not like that has never happened before.

that's not really the whole story, as you know.

the example of the patriarchs and the prophets and in fact the clear & direct command of God included physical circumcision.
yet the Spirit of God also wrote Galatians 5.

reconcile that, dude.

did you just seriously chastise someone for not answering a question from you??

after you have been asked multiple times to discuss Scripture, and you refuse??

talk about some drunk on their own cool-aid.

might want to sober up there dude.

when you refuse to answer questions, yet demand yours be answered, that is called a controlled reality, where you have no higher standard than your self.

when you are your own standard, you have no standing.

Speaking of inescapable conclusions:


Ephesians 1:11-14 (HCSB)
11 We have also [Past Tense] received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already [Past Tense] put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.
13 When you heard [Past Tense] the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation [Past Tense], and when you believed in Him [Past Tense], you were also sealed [Past Tense] with the promised Holy Spirit.
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance [Past Tense], for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.

You are still good for a few laughs G9.

Your spirit filled posts of great wisdom and spiritual insight in your "history of now" are always good for a chuckle.

it is good to be able to laugh at yourself.

how is your Matthew 17:24-27 study going, study-person?

I'm not trying to be funny.

so, do you really think it's fine to chastise someone for not answering your question, while you have been asked, for probably 2 weeks now, to discuss Scripture, and you refuse to do so.

so, if you think that is no big deal, then you are your own standard. because doing this is not fair, or honest, or credible.

and, since God expects us to be truthful, honest and fair, and you do NOT apply that standard to your self, then you are your own standard.

you are not submitting your self to Scripture, you are just applying it as you see fit.

submit your self to the authority of Scripture. be honest, be fair.

you have been told. we will see how you respond.

back on ignore you go, until you began to apply the Bible you claim to know to yourself

Studyman: "And I am more obedient today, than 27 years ago. Is that not "Growing in the Lord"?

Hi Studyman, stop with the bragging about how wonderful and obedient you are and how you have suffered so. Listen forum "never follow someone who does not exhibit true humility", why?, because their actions and words reveal they are in it for self satisfaction.

Watch for the signs; short definition of humility; real humility builds up, false humility tears down; Quote: "when there is a problem and the results aren't good; a humble leader looks in the mirror, not out the window."

The Jordan River where John baptized Jesus and so began the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ.

Examples of true Christian humility; He left his heavenly abode and tabernacled among men.
Jesus of Nazareth King of Kings and Lord of Lords and yet He humbled Himself and became a servant for you and I; He came not to be served but to serve and give His life as a ransom for many." (Matt20:28).

"Never follow anyone who does not exhibit signs of "True Humility", if you do your in for a rude awakening.

Hebrews12:2
"fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God."

2Corinthians8:9
"For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sake He became poor, so that you through His poverty might become rich."

1Samuel16:7
"The LORD does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."

Matthew20:28
"just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."

Romans12:10
"Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Outdo yourselves in honoring one another."

Philippians2:3
"Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves;"

NOW I see what you are doing wrong with your Postings. You put your COMMENT INSIDE THE QUOTED TEXT, when YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO PUT IT BELOW, AFTER the {/QUOTE}. PLEASE CORRECTION THAT PROBLEM NEXT TIME.

Now addressing your remarks: I DID NOT YELL AT YOU AT ANY TIME. When I took TYPING in High School in 1966, typing in ALL CAPS, was JUST FOR EMPHASIS. As far as I am concerned, that is way it should be. I don't have a Face Book Account, and NEVER HAVE AND NEVER WILL. So my CAPS, are Nothing more than EMPHASIS, whether in BOLD or STANDARD. I am TOO old, to learn New Tricks, and do not care what FACE BOOK calls their ALL CAPS RULES.

Here is what I CALL YELLING, putting it ALL in #26 size fronts, like this: NEVER AGAIN!
Anything less is just for EMPHASIS. Oh, just so you know, the WARNING is for real, when you criticize our beliefs with LIES.