Not By Works

Beware brethren lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God but exhort one another daily, while it is called 'Today' lest any of you be HARDENED by the deceitfulness of sin

We can harden our hearts, open ourselves up to attack and in the end begin to doubt our salvation! Wanting the protection of Jesus and keeping close with Him is not at all works. We do not have to work to be accepted by God. Jesus is our protection. God bless you.

You don't lose your salvation because you sinned, to be clear, but running to sin leads to the process that little by little snuffs out your BELIEF in God's power to save. Avoidance of sin is good and should not be discouraged for the sake of the doctrine of substitutionary atonement.

I guess it is all a matter of who believes who is saved.

I do not see active avoidance of sin as a work, but an empowerment from Jesus and a really great gift to be given because of how much sin ruins our lives NOW. We can't even see it, but the spirit (inner) man is tormented, bruised and wounded with the acts of our sin.

And to add....we must help Jesus do that which he said he would do......and by default their view states clearly that Christ, his work, his promises and his power is not sufficient to save us!

The more you sin willfully, deliberately, the more "you block out the grace of God" by rejecting His answers, His way of doing things .

Am I saved if I reject the guidance and protection of Jesus and try to earn salvation in my own strength? Not from what I know. But it is not black and white. There are teachers who teach that you can "live like the Devil" and be saved. Some here would argue that such a person was never saved at all, but not all would. Some would argue that salvation remains to be seen, too.

in my own strength? Not from what I know. But it is not black and white. There are teachers who teach that you can "live like the Devil" and be saved. Some here would argue that such a person was never saved at all, but not all would. Some would argue that salvation remains to be seen, too.

Hi Argueless,
I agree with your posts but I have to say that I don't think it's right to say that anyone here does not obey God's commandments. You were speaking to @dcontroversal above, but it could be about anyone.

We don't know if anyone obeys God or not...my guess would be that they do their best to do what God wants them to do. There are two ways of understanding OSAS.

One way is to believe in our Lord and to follow His commandments and believe that it's HE that is keeping a person and all is attributed to Him. Although this is not biblically correct and our actions do matter....it's an acceptable form of OSAS.

Another way to understand OSAS is to say that we can do whatever we want to and still be saved. I've have read a couple of posters on this very thread say this. On a different forum, one poster stated that we could blaspheme the Holy Spirit (curse Him) and still be saved because Jesus will protect us.
This is totally unacceptable.

The problem lies with who is reading this thread. If it's a mature Christian we could discuss and disagree and continue with that. But if one is a new Christian it's not RIGHT to teach OSAS because, quite simply, it's not biblical.

Now, I've posted the ECF's here and I've been told they're not inspired.
Was John Calvin inspired? He changed the nature of God ! But I guess he knew more than the ECF's.

And who were the ECF's?

Clement (Bishop) of Rome was taught by Paul
Ignatius of Antioch, Justin Martyr.....were taught by Peter.
Polycarp (bishop) of Smrna, Irenaeus....were taught by John.
(and others)

Who do YOU suppose knew more?
And what do you suppose these persons believed about OSAS?
Right. They didn't.
They spoke about how we're to maintain our salvation once achieved.

We are justified by our works and not our words. Clement of Rome (c. 96), 1.13.

. . . that He may both hear you, and perceive by your works that you are indeed the members of His Son. . . . Faith cannot do the works of unbelief, nor unbelief the works of faith. . . . The tree is made manifest by its fruit. So those who profess themselves to be Christians will be recognized by their conduct. . . . It is better for a man to be silent and be [a Christian], than to talk and not be one. Ignatius (c. 105)

We . . . hasten to confess our faith, persuaded and convinced as we are that those who have proved to God by their works that they followed Him, and loved to abide with Him where there is no sin to cause disturbance, can obtain these things. . . . Each man goes to everlasting punishment or salvation according to the value of his actions. Justin Martyr (c. 160), 1.165, 166.

We will give account to God not only of deeds (as slaves), but even of words and thoughts (as being those who have truly received the power of liberty). For under liberty, a man is more severely tested as to whether he will reverence, fear, and love the Lord. . . . God desires obedience, which renders [His worshippers] secure—rather than sacrifices and burnt-offerings, which avail men nothing toward righteousness. Irenaeus (c. 180), 1.482.

and much more.....

Am I saved if I reject the guidance and protection of Jesus and try to earn salvation in my own strength? Not from what I know. But it is not black and white. There are teachers who teach that you can "live like the Devil" and be saved. Some here would argue that such a person was never saved at all, but not all would. Some would argue that salvation remains to be seen, too.

By the way. There is no way possible my sin could choke my faith out. If I sin, Then the HS convicts me of that sin in chastening.. if nothing else. That makes my faith stronger. Because only if I lack chastening would my faith weaken, because if I am not chastened, am I really saved (the word say I am most likely illegitament and not a true child)

I was a prodigal son for 5 years. During that 5 years. I commited many worldly sins. Yet throughout that whole time. My faith did not die. It was tested.. But it was Gods chastening which brought me back. WHich strengthened my faith not the other way around.

As scripture ays, it is the knowledge I hve eternal life which keeps me in faith. I would only lose faith or choke it out if I stopped trusting God to keep me secure in him and keep his promise. If I lost faith that my eternity was secure, then and ONLY THEN could I lose faith. And if this is the case, Did you ever have faith to begin with? I would say no. (My view)

Funny how many believe in their mind that just because people name Jesus that they are all in the same boat.....they cannot grasp and or dismiss the truth that most of so called Christianity teaches the exact same gospel that places one into the MANY group that Jesus rejects...

a. They claim Jesus as LORD
b. They fully expect to enter based upon what they have done in His name

The above is faith plus works for salvation when boiled down!

Hi God'sgrace101, thanks for calling my attention. My reply was to dcon but if it cuts through to other people's heart then I praise God for that. I have no other intention but to share the WORD of God which is the TRUTH and contrary to FALSE MAN MADE doctrines that can deceive many in this last days

….Let us, therefore, make every effort to ENTER that res(JESUS)t, so that no one will fall BY FOLLOWING THEIR EXAMPLE OF DISOBEDIENCE. For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account. Hebrews 4:11-13

...If you want to ENTER life (JESUS), OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS. Matthew 19:16-30)

And so the apostle Paul explained and EXPOSED these CLAIMERS AND TALKERS.

...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6

...Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather EXPOSE THEM. For IT IS SHAMEFUL even to mention WHAT THE DISOBEDIENT DO in secret. But everything EXPOSED BY THE LIGHT becomes visible, for it is light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said: “WAKE UP, O sleeper, RISE FROM THE DEAD, and Christ will shine on you.” Ephesians 5:11-14

God bless.

I am sorry, But this to me is The same as saying You lose salvation because of sin.

And it does not matter, As I showed, John said they can not sin, so in. Reality, there would be no danger or possibility of sin snuffing Out Our belief.


I think it matter on who has true saving faith vs those who merely belief. No one is saved based on mere belief. [/QUOTE)
He replied, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance.

Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: “‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’

But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

“Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path. The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away. The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful. But the one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who hears the word and understands it. He produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”

The Parable of the Weeds
...Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared. “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’ “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied. “The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’ “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’” Matthew 13:11-30

Words straight from the written word of God.
How can anyone deny God's word??

Colossians 3:23