Liberalism and Conservatism

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TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
13,110
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#61
For the same reason a Christian would not support a multitude of social programs. The government cannot do ANYTHING less expensively than the private sector much less nonprofit charities. It seems that most persons that support universal healthcare (just because other countries do) don't seem to comprehend that tax rates in those nations aren't just a little higher, they are phenomenally higher.

Contemplate trying to pay your bills when the government takes 50% or more of your paycheck in income taxes instead of 25-35%. Oh, by the way, most nations that offer have socialized medicine also have "value added" taxes (think of it as a federal sales tax) so now everything you are buying (with less money) costs more.
Yeah, but so many people in the US go broke, lose their homes become homeless or worse die bc they can't afford healthcare. Some people hate the idea of taxes but if it meant everybody was taken care of, health/education/housing, isn't that a good thing? It seems to work in many highly-rated countries, I would think those countries with wide disparities between the rich and poor aren't bothered by this result.
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
5,233
1,641
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#62
For the same reason a Christian would not support a multitude of social programs. The government cannot do ANYTHING less expensively than the private sector much less nonprofit charities. It seems that most persons that support universal healthcare (just because other countries do) don't seem to comprehend that tax rates in those nations aren't just a little higher, they are phenomenally higher.

Contemplate trying to pay your bills when the government takes 50% or more of your paycheck in income taxes instead of 25-35%. Oh, by the way, most nations that offer have socialized medicine also have "value added" taxes (think of it as a federal sales tax) so now everything you are buying (with less money) costs more.
Interesting side step. Higher taxes! Just curious. If you include your healthcare plan in your total compensation, what is your total tax rate.

The private sector, nor private charities are providing anything close to universal healthcare.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#63
Interesting side step. Higher taxes! Just curious. If you include your healthcare plan in your total compensation, what is your total tax rate.

The private sector, nor private charities are providing anything close to universal healthcare.
Come to Canada, I can tell all about third world universal health care and why and how people die daily because of lack of service, poor management and less developed medical care
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#64
Yeah, but so many people in the US go broke, lose their homes become homeless or worse die bc they can't afford healthcare. Some people hate the idea of taxes but if it meant everybody was taken care of, health/education/housing, isn't that a good thing? It seems to work in many highly-rated countries, I would think those countries with wide disparities between the rich and poor aren't bothered by this result.
Housing even?

So exactly why should people get up and go to work?

Again study the effects of social welfare on a society, a good starting point could be how the democrats have been very successful keeping people in the ghettos dependent on government for assistance, thereby ensuring votes at the voting booth.
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
13,110
10,670
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#65
Housing even?

So exactly why should people get up and go to work?

Again study the effects of social welfare on a society, a good starting point could be how the democrats have been very successful keeping people in the ghettos dependent on government for assistance, thereby ensuring votes at the voting booth.
Well, even Trump said Democrats have the best economies.
 
J

Jennie-Mae

Guest
#68
These are difficult questions.

I’m originally from Alabama, a state located in the southeastern part of the United States of America. In Alabama, at least where I’m from, the sales tax is 4%, and the county is currently adding 2%, meaning the sales tax is 6%. This applies to retail level only, and, say, a used car can be sold adding sales taxes every time the dealer is selling it. My point is that taxes are not necessarily that low compared to other industrialized countries.

In my county, most folks don’t have high salaries. The median income is low, whilst the poverty rate is high. Most families don’t get to see an annual income of $30,000. Healthcare is not something you take for granted.

For many years I’ve been living in Europe. In the country I’m residing in, there’s a healthcare system paid through taxes, meaning everybody is getting healthcare whenever need be. It’s not perfect, far from it, but it’s better than what poor folks in my county can expect.

My conclusion is that the states should introduce healthcare programs for people that can’t afford health insurance. But it should not be decided on a federal level.
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
13,110
10,670
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#69
Come to Canada, I can tell all about third world universal health care and why and how people die daily because of lack of service, poor management and less developed medical care
Btw, did you know that 'Thomas Douglas' was voted 'The Greatest Canadian' by a nationwide survey? He started the Canadian Healthcare system.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#70
Btw, did you know that 'Thomas Douglas' was voted 'The Greatest Canadian' by a nationwide survey? He started the Canadian Healthcare system.
Yup, what a joke, most Canadians have drunk the kool aid sadly, just look at our PM

Tommy supported eugenics btw...he was a "black hat" with a thin veneer of good works to fool the masses and apparently it worked
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
13,110
10,670
113
#71
Yup, what a joke, most Canadians have drunk the kool aid sadly, just look at our PM

Tommy supported eugenics btw...he was a "black hat" with a thin veneer of good works to fool the masses and apparently it worked
According to 'eugenicsarchive.ca' Mr Douglas was a Baptist minister and reading on he was deeply concerned about providing support for mentally challenged people. According to this source he was presented with a bill to legalize eugenics sterilization he rejected it during his time as premier. (McLaren 1990 pp 7-9, 166-67) He was also presented many other awards.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
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#72
Yeah, the greedy capitalists will provide the best health care - do they have some people fooled.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,516
113
Anaheim, Cali.
#73
Yup, what a joke, most Canadians have drunk the kool aid sadly, just look at our PM

Tommy supported eugenics btw...he was a "black hat" with a thin veneer of good works to fool the masses and apparently it worked
To be fair I must inform you that the adjustment for taxable income here is $18,000 and I receive $17,700 from all sources my annual tax liability is -$300 and I am concerned about people that receive less than I do.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#75
According to 'eugenicsarchive.ca' Mr Douglas was a Baptist minister and reading on he was deeply concerned about providing support for mentally challenged people. According to this source he was presented with a bill to legalize eugenics sterilization he rejected it during his time as premier. (McLaren 1990 pp 7-9, 166-67) He was also presented many other awards.
Do your research and dig deeper ...he was a freemason, a fake, enuff said
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
13,110
10,670
113
#76
Do your research and dig deeper ...he was a freemason, a fake, enuff said
Pres George Washington and many other highly esteemed figures were/are freemasons. He's a fake IYO but a national here to a nation regardless if was a Dem.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
#77
There's a fake under just about every rock according to some.
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
13,110
10,670
113
#78
Pres George Washington and many other highly esteemed figures were/are freemasons. He's a fake IYO but a national here to a nation regardless if was a Dem.
Rather, 'national hero'.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#79
Pres George Washington and many other highly esteemed figures were/are freemasons. He's a fake IYO but a national here to a nation regardless if was a Dem.
You think Tommy Douglas was a great man that is your opinion, some day you can read his Master's thesis and give a better informed opinion

George Washington belonged to the Federalist party btw.....and yes many were freemasons, interesting isn't it?

Strange world we live in, some never like to scratch the surface and face reality of who is really running the show

I also would not really speak to nationalized/socialized health care unless you have really understood it, because it is not so easy and wonderful as you seem to believe
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
13,110
10,670
113
#80
You think Tommy Douglas was a great man that is your opinion, some day you can read his Master's thesis and give a better informed opinion

George Washington belonged to the Federalist party btw.....and yes many were freemasons, interesting isn't it?

Strange world we live in, some never like to scratch the surface and face reality of who is really running the show

I also would not really speak to nationalized/socialized health care unless you have really understood it, because it is not so easy and wonderful as you seem to believe
The statistics beg to differ and public opinion from the people living there. Other countries are far ahead of us re healthcare as the US is rated 37th by the WHO.