Liberalism and Conservatism

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

vashweb2

Active member
May 30, 2018
35
141
33
#1
One of the biggest issues in America and in other countries by other names, is the issues between those who wish to keep their political systems as they are and those who wish to make major changes to the political systems. It is quite strange that liberalism is been put on the opposing side of Christianity since classical liberalism partially from Protestant principles.
IMG_20181229_230406.jpg The protestant Reformation taught the values necessary for present day liberalism even to survive. Conservatism in America has the right intentions in mind when it makes its vote for Christians; trying to promote and sustain religious liberty. But also strangely enough, Protestantism was born out of political indisposition of the catholic church's tyranny over defining what God says. One interpretation of what Jesus said about "giving to Caesar what is Caesar's and giving to God what is God's" is separation between Christianity and politics. America has been a great example of Christianity through the ages in its fight to preserve the freedom of the rights of citizens of other countries. Other countries like Spain, Great Britain, and Rome have done the same throughout last 2,000 years, America most recently has had the task of being a good example. There is no country that has not made mistake as well. Even the best intentions in imperialism and manifest destiny have left some stains on the goals wished to be obtained.
Taking all this into consideration the next question that comes to mind is what connection between what God uses to sustain and what people believe God uses to sustain Christianity. Does America religious freedom sustain Christianity in American; does religious freedom of religious practices in our country sustain us, or is it our faith in Jesus Christ that sustains us? Having a child or being a proud person can cause one to loose sight of the truth. Having a child in school being taught values contrary to what we believe makes us totally outraged especially when they come home talking about what they have learned. Being taught about two princes marrying one another here in California to another certainly would be a means of secular values being enforced on our innocent children who have no real understanding since they are just children. And when the word freedom gets thrown around enough, they become opposed with freedom of anything, and anything that blocks a freedom that does not harm another person, based on their secular teachings, they object towards, even the truth of God's word. The outrage that parents feel is universally understood by all true Christians. Outside our homes, away from our words, are the words of secular words which we cannot control. It creates an insecurity that makes even Christians deviate from our own teachings and become choose to treat certain issues differently then they otherwise would; a type of bias. But their is no new issue against our faith that we have not faced before. Having the truth of all answers is simply what Christianity has and has demonstrated for ages. The God we have has never been defeated. Saying it proudly is quite uplifting; Jesus Christ is the most famous person for centuries. He who is above all has retain his sovereignty against the slings and arrows of secular attack. All cultures that have embraced Jesus into their hearts have such beauty; taking a short glance at those that do not allow his principles are starving for them. Hearing the testimony of the a Muslim who said when he heard "love your enemies" that he was utterly shocked, influenced me to see that in a world ruled by human chaos, Christianity's teachings of love and forgiveness stands on high.
In the 16th century, it was the Anabaptist that first suggestion the separation of church and state.
IMG_20181230_000441.jpg Taking into consideration these historical events, it seems that the freedom was born in western society became used by Christianity's love to a people who loved not the institution that brought it about. They believed they could dissect a faith's values and use its most fundamental principles to serve its own purpose; without consistency, without historical relevance, without reliable evidence, a secular vision began to assume that it could keep such values and survive. Religions that have survived have only done so because they disallow a light that will shine out all untruth.
America had led the way in becoming so great in beauty in attempting to demonstrate freedom that freedom has been stolen to mean something without a proper authority such as God, and only God, could sustain. "The reigns of freedom have been pulled by the fashionable horse of unabated liberalism out of the hands of imprudent public policy, and the carriage of society will run its blind course till it bashes into the tree of social psychosis." Liberals have heart, but don't understand it. They make the right choices for the wrong reasons while conservatives may make the wrong choices for the right reasons. Do political questions involve reasoning for people outside their beliefs for the sake of some sort of political science which tries to assume a dictatorship, and reach into the life of the person in consideration? America may come and go, Christianity may be seen as one way today and another tomorrow, but what never will change is the truth that is God's word. This country doesn't matter since its values are based on a opinions and not the bible, the elongation of our lives doesn't matter since it is only a moment in time, and certainly truth and love matter since they are the only guiding forces the sustain all beings. Outside our churches, the beliefs do not matter. We have the written word of God that has been attacked and debated for centuries and is stronger then ever. Trusting in Truth and Love that are not weak is all we have. The bible's morals have never been topped, the beauty of the life of Christ has never been equaled, and truth that is the gospel message more attractive then anything ever spoken on this planet. Thomas was reprimanded for his need to see. So let us rely less on what we see and more on what we cannot see.
 

Embankment

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2017
673
184
43
#2
Both politics and Christianity are suffering from people’s inability to think critically. Every answer is now black or it is white. All things must be grouped into one side or the other. We want to run our lives as if we have the knowledge of God himself. Conservatives believe Liberals teach there is no right or wrong. Libs teach that Conservatives views of right and wrong have no spiritual basis.
Both are for the most part correct!
Jesus has the answers and all should follow him!
American ideals cannot be more important God’s ideals. They should align. I don’t see that happening in either political party and both are in lock step with religion to prop up their extremist beliefs.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
12,889
1,049
113
#3
Both politics and Christianity are suffering from people’s inability to think critically. Every answer is now black or it is white. All things must be grouped into one side or the other. We want to run our lives as if we have the knowledge of God himself. Conservatives believe Liberals teach there is no right or wrong. Libs teach that Conservatives views of right and wrong have no spiritual basis.
Both are for the most part correct!
Jesus has the answers and all should follow him!
American ideals cannot be more important God’s ideals. They should align. I don’t see that happening in either political party and both are in lock step with religion to prop up their extremist beliefs.

Well the problem with the left is there is no longer middle ground. The party has been dragged so far left that they are now preaching the gospel of socialism. They back abortion,homosexuality, and an endless number of genders among other things. So people who use to be middle of the road are left without a party. Conservatives have their issues also but not like the left. And I don't see the left coming back anytime soon.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
3,376
2,460
113
64
lawton ok
#4
If I say I'm against gay pride parades, abortion and legalizing all narcotics does that make me a conservative? But I also am against big oil, big pharma and the John Birch Society. Am I a Liberal? What happened to freedom of speech? When did calling someone a liberal become an insult? And what's wrong with states having the authority to legalize Cannabis? Am I supposed to pick a side when I disagree with much that both sides have to say? And why are we still using an electoral system that was created when people that worked away from their homes went to work on horses, if they could afford them? Submarines, airplanes and telephones were Sci-Fi.
 
J

Jennie-Mae

Guest
#5
If I say I'm against gay pride parades, abortion and legalizing all narcotics does that make me a conservative? But I also am against big oil, big pharma and the John Birch Society. Am I a Liberal? What happened to freedom of speech? When did calling someone a liberal become an insult? And what's wrong with states having the authority to legalize Cannabis? Am I supposed to pick a side when I disagree with much that both sides have to say? And why are we still using an electoral system that was created when people that worked away from their homes went to work on horses, if they could afford them? Submarines, airplanes and telephones were Sci-Fi.
Hm, maybe you’re right. If one is serious about states rights, then the state lawmakers should get to pass the legislation they are given the authority to by the states voters.
 

Embankment

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2017
673
184
43
#6
Well the problem with the left is there is no longer middle ground. The party has been dragged so far left that they are now preaching the gospel of socialism. They back abortion,homosexuality, and an endless number of genders among other things. So people who use to be middle of the road are left without a party. Conservatives have their issues also but not like the left. And I don't see the left coming back anytime soon.
Conservatives certainly has issues......
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
24,486
2,057
113
#7
One of the biggest issues in America and in other countries by other names, is the issues between those who wish to keep their political systems as they are and those who wish to make major changes to the political systems. It is quite strange that liberalism is been put on the opposing side of Christianity since classical liberalism partially from Protestant principles.[/QUOTE]

.
The opening of your OP is flawed, and that does not lend credence to the rest of it...........IF you are promoting liberalism as being the Politics of Christianity/God.

It was/is the radical, socialist, extremist, baby killing, God denying liberals who put themselves on THE OPPOSING SIDE of Christianity. Don't blame Christians for the evil doings of those guys. If you think for one minute that the murder of over 70 million babies here in America alone is "of God," then you are sadly mistaken, and dangerously confused
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,025
491
83
#8
Well the problem with the left is there is no longer middle ground. The party has been dragged so far left that they are now preaching the gospel of socialism. They back abortion,homosexuality, and an endless number of genders among other things. So people who use to be middle of the road are left without a party. Conservatives have their issues also but not like the left. And I don't see the left coming back anytime soon.
Conservatives have moved as far right as libs have moved left. Neither holds the middle ground any more. And no I don't see either side changing any time soon
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
6,177
2,803
113
#10
The opening of your OP is flawed, and that does not lend credence to the rest of it...........IF you are promoting liberalism as being the Politics of Christianity/God.

It was/is the radical, socialist, extremist, baby killing, God denying liberals who put themselves on THE OPPOSING SIDE of Christianity. Don't blame Christians for the evil doings of those guys. If you think for one minute that the murder of over 70 million babies here in America alone is "of God," then you are sadly mistaken, and dangerously confused
I would say that they are not Liberals in the true political meaning but rather just Progressive ----Borderline Lawless/Anarchic, but like to use the cover of the term Liberalism, it sounds better than the Lawless faction.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
26,349
4,763
113
64
Florida
#11
Well the problem with the left is there is no longer middle ground. The party has been dragged so far left that they are now preaching the gospel of socialism. They back abortion,homosexuality, and an endless number of genders among other things. So people who use to be middle of the road are left without a party. Conservatives have their issues also but not like the left. And I don't see the left coming back anytime soon.
Good riddance to those on the far-left.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
3,376
2,460
113
64
lawton ok
#12
So does this mean small oil companies and small pharma companies are okay with you ?
The deeper the pockets are the more bribery they hand out. I don't think in my lifetime they will ever put an end to corporate political contributions or stop defending them under freedom of speech however I will still oppose them. I don't care how rich they are but buying politicians should have always been a crime. Although it has always been the way of the flesh and our human reprobate minds. It is as wrong as rape. We should try and leave the world and humanity in better shape for our grandchildren than we found it.

I have grand children now that are old enough to become parents also. What kind of planet and civilization are going to leave them. I will most likely die before the Lord returns just like all who came before me so what I leave behind is now more important to me than the worldly things I have accomplished. I wish not to leave a toxic waste dump or generations of dope addled descendants.

As far as big pharma and big oil go, the bigger they are the more damage they do. And the easier they are to identify. I worry more about a truckload of Oxycontin that a kilo of cocaine. The Coke must be stopped by nearly any means necessary but the Oxy's turn sick people in pain into addicts who run out of legal ways to feed the need and turn to the illegal drugs for relief. Only taxpayers, family members and addicts suffer while big pharma and narco terrorists make out like gluttons at a buffet. While we all foot the bill!
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
6,128
2,047
113
#13
I would consider myself a Classic Liberal. But the word has become so contorted and twisted, it no longer has the meaning it originally had.

Those that we label "liberals" today are leftists, and are really what I consider fascists. They are vehemently against free speech, and use violence to enforce their beliefs ala Antifa, which ironically enough, are the biggest fascists in North America today. These groups are tacitly, and sometimes overtly supported by Democrats, the news media, Hollywood, and most disturbing perhaps, every MAJOR social media platform.

These modern day liberal/fascists have a stranglehold on virtually ALL college campuses, and are increasingly seeping into High Schools and even Elementary Schools with insidious social justice ideology, which is simply repackaged fascism. Using violence to suppress opposing views.

Are there those on the right that are also racists and haters? Of course there is! But these are so miniscule by comparison, and are supported by NO even mid level elected Republican, and rightly castigated by same, as to not be worthy of mention. Similar to an atheist trying to broad brush Christians by using teeny weenie Westboro Baptists to make a point.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
6,128
2,047
113
#14
The deeper the pockets are the more bribery they hand out. I don't think in my lifetime they will ever put an end to corporate political contributions or stop defending them under freedom of speech however I will still oppose them. I don't care how rich they are but buying politicians should have always been a crime. Although it has always been the way of the flesh and our human reprobate minds. It is as wrong as rape. We should try and leave the world and humanity in better shape for our grandchildren than we found it.

I have grand children now that are old enough to become parents also. What kind of planet and civilization are going to leave them. I will most likely die before the Lord returns just like all who came before me so what I leave behind is now more important to me than the worldly things I have accomplished. I wish not to leave a toxic waste dump or generations of dope addled descendants.

As far as big pharma and big oil go, the bigger they are the more damage they do. And the easier they are to identify. I worry more about a truckload of Oxycontin that a kilo of cocaine. The Coke must be stopped by nearly any means necessary but the Oxy's turn sick people in pain into addicts who run out of legal ways to feed the need and turn to the illegal drugs for relief. Only taxpayers, family members and addicts suffer while big pharma and narco terrorists make out like gluttons at a buffet. While we all foot the bill!

Everything man has ever invented or discovered, from oil to guns, to sugar, to drugs, has been, and has the potential to be, corrupted and abused. Railing against
"Big Pharma" has a REAL effect your probably not even that aware of. People with CHRONIC pain are killing themselves because Drs. are afraid to continue to prescribe the ONLY thing that has made their lives bearable. Opioids. What irony that so many pushing for ban on opioids are clammoring for legalized pot and other drugs. Not saying you, but I know some who are.

https://www.foxnews.com/health/as-o...abandon-pain-patients-driving-many-to-suicide
 
J

Jennie-Mae

Guest
#15
Everything man has ever invented or discovered, from oil to guns, to sugar, to drugs, has been, and has the potential to be, corrupted and abused. Railing against
"Big Pharma" has a REAL effect your probably not even that aware of. People with CHRONIC pain are killing themselves because Drs. are afraid to continue to prescribe the ONLY thing that has made their lives bearable. Opioids. What irony that so many pushing for ban on opioids are clammoring for legalized pot and other drugs. Not saying you, but I know some who are.

https://www.foxnews.com/health/as-o...abandon-pain-patients-driving-many-to-suicide
I couldn’t agree more!
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
3,376
2,460
113
64
lawton ok
#16
Everything man has ever invented or discovered, from oil to guns, to sugar, to drugs, has been, and has the potential to be, corrupted and abused. Railing against
"Big Pharma" has a REAL effect your probably not even that aware of. People with CHRONIC pain are killing themselves because Drs. are afraid to continue to prescribe the ONLY thing that has made their lives bearable. Opioids. What irony that so many pushing for ban on opioids are clammoring for legalized pot and other drugs. Not saying you, but I know some who are.

https://www.foxnews.com/health/as-o...abandon-pain-patients-driving-many-to-suicide
I am not against using opioids for pain management. Both my parents died of cancer. However just as you sort of pointed out when patients become addicted they have a new problem to add to their pain and suffering. And addiction treatment is a specialty of it's own that many doctors that prescribe addictive medications are poorly trained in. Withdrawing patients suddenly can have disastrous effects and there are other ways to manage the problems.

The propaganda that the drug companies have expounded are now obvious but I feel they assume far to little responsibility in trying to address the problem that they helped to create. The chronic pain that these substances mask will never subside by pure abstinence. Most people that receive these kinds of meds, get them for a reason so taking them away only adds to the pain and misery they had to begin with. If you spill gasoline or paint you are expected to clean it up at your own expense. Big pharma could sponsor addiction management clinics for example for patients that may need the meds for life. I only have 35 college units of substance abuse treatment education. I'm quite sure they are smarter than me. Addiction is now treatable and manageable. People don't need to turn to the illegal drug suppliers and threatening doctors is way off base.

Perhaps if we made 60 units of addiction therapy a requirement to write prescriptions things would get better. Big pharma could certainly afford it and I would think they should do it willingly considering they get most the customers from doctors. It seems that putting social responsibility on the same field as profit margin is against their mantra. I could go on for hours but few care enough to read it. Unless they or a loved one becomes disabled by it. Goodbye for now. Cali.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
26,349
4,763
113
64
Florida
#19
Everything man has ever invented or discovered, from oil to guns, to sugar, to drugs, has been, and has the potential to be, corrupted and abused. Railing against
"Big Pharma" has a REAL effect your probably not even that aware of. People with CHRONIC pain are killing themselves because Drs. are afraid to continue to prescribe the ONLY thing that has made their lives bearable. Opioids. What irony that so many pushing for ban on opioids are clammoring for legalized pot and other drugs. Not saying you, but I know some who are.

https://www.foxnews.com/health/as-o...abandon-pain-patients-driving-many-to-suicide
Without narcotic pain medication my late second wife would not have had any quality of life whatsoever. It is true what you stated about doctors being afraid to prescribe an effective pain medication dose in a pain management setting for fear of losing their license. In the end the doctors cut her pain medications so drastically that she basically just gave up and died as her living conditions had become intolerable.

Personally, I believe that all pain medications should be sold OTC at an affordable price without a prescription, the only regulation that I would agree with would be perhaps having the patient be given a class on the pros and cons of each drug and how it may effect them and to avoid taking improperly.

The government has no business in deciding an appropriate level of pain that those in chronic pain must now live with. You better believe that they have access to all the pain medication they want or need.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
3,376
2,460
113
64
lawton ok
#20
[

Personally, I believe that all pain medications should be sold OTC at an affordable price without a prescription, the only regulation that I would agree with would be perhaps having the patient be given a class on the pros and cons of each drug and how it may effect them and to avoid taking improperly.

The government has no business in deciding an appropriate level of pain that those in chronic pain must now live with. You better believe that they have access to all the pain medication they want or need.[/QUOTE]
Amen to that in green. The only objection I have is the judgment of a person once addicted is questionable at best. I would find the judgment of a sober person be more trustworthy and treat addiction to pain meds as another disease, a manageable situation. never forgetting they may need the meds. We both know there are worse things to have than addiction especially chronic pain and/or terminal diseases. Kudos! Thank you for your honesty.