Why is praying in tongues necessary?

I am so very thankful and humbled that God has given me his Holy Spirit and that daily and often I can pray
in the tongues of men and of angels.
Power, miracles, healings, blessings, overcoming many tribulations …
knowledge, discerning of spirits, faith, healing and working of miracles are all in my walk and of my testimony to being a disciple
of Christ Jesus and the full gospel of salvation.

Therefore it says, “When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.”
Ephesians 4:8 (ESV)

I am so very thankful and humbled that God has given me his Holy Spirit and that daily and often I can pray
in the tongues of men and of angels.
Power, miracles, healings, blessings, overcoming many tribulations …
knowledge, discerning of spirits, faith, healing and working of miracles are all in my walk and of my testimony to being a disciple
of Christ Jesus and the full gospel of salvation.

Therefore it says, “When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.”
Ephesians 4:8 (ESV)

To whom Jesus spoke in acts 1, 4-8?

You ignoring just the facts.
And you do not taking away my doubts. In opposite!
You taking just passages out of the context and are not able and show where your view is taught. In the NT churches.

the pentecostal movement of 1900 are the only ones to think it had to do with speaking in angel languages.

He spoke to His disciples.


Are you a disciples?




JPT

Jesus and His Apostles teach us about the Baptism with the Holy Spirit and praying or speaking in tongues.



Stop making up nonsense.




JPT

Did you even read my post? My testimony? How sick I was of a a few Scriptures in Acts?

There is a whole Bible, 66 books, thousands of incredible pages. About who God is. Why Jesus was sent, and what he did for us on the cross! Doctrine, wisdom, counselling, advice, admonition, and how to walk/live with God. The word walk in Greek is peripateo and it also means "live." It appears hundreds of times in the NT, nothing to do with this one time experiential event. Waking with Christ, through the Holy Spirit, is how we are transformed. Using our minds, not some kind of one time experience. Transformation is daily walk!

"Therefore I exhort you, brothers and sisters, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a sacrifice—alive, holy, and pleasing to God—which is your reasonable service. 2 Do not be conformed to this present world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may test and approve what is the will of God—what is good and well-pleasing and perfect." airman's 12:1-2

The interesting thing about this passage, Paul follows it with instructions on how to live, and gifts! None of which is tongues or prophecy!

"For by the grace given to me I say to every one of you not to think more highly of yourself than you ought to think, but to think with sober discernment, as God has distributed to each of you a measure of faith. 4 For just as in one body we have many members, and not all the members serve the same function, 5 so we who are many are one body in Christ, and individually we are members who belong to one another. 6 And we have different gifts according to the grace given to us. If the gift is prophecy, that individual must use it in proportion to his faith. 7 If it is service, he must serve; if it is teaching, he must teach; 8 if it is exhortation, he must exhort; if it is contributing, he must do so with sincerity; if it is leadership, he must do so with diligence; if it is showing mercy, he must do so with cheerfulness." Romans 12: 3-8

I had the so-called "Baptism in the Holy Spirit," which is not actually in the Bible. (This is a noun phrase, not an verb, like Baptism) in 1980. There was no additional fullness, because I WAS full of the Holy Spirit.

So, learn about the rest of the Bible. I've read Acts probably 60-70 times, including in Koine Greek and French. I studied it is seminary. I taught a Bible study on it! Acts is so much more than some individual getting some second "blessing!" It is about community, about the Holy Spirit leading the church to grow not just in numbers, but in spirit and character. It is about solid teaching, about evangelism, and the history of the church.

Read the whole book of Acts!! Read the whole NT and the OT.

And if I seem angry, try exasperated instead. I am tired of a lie, and how it binds/blinds people from exploring the whole Bible, to say nothing of the communal aspects of the birth of the church, which is about the Holy Spirit falling on 120 followers of Jesus, including the disciples, and then, speaking in real tongues, and people hearing the gospel in their own language.

I know there are people who go beyond these superficial interpretations. Gordon Fee is one of the top Greek scholars in the world. He writes commentaries, books in many topics, and is on translation committees. He is not obsessed with 5 incidents in Acts, although he is Pentecostal. He uses his learning to help the body of Christ grow!

I do not like this obsession with a one time dubious event. If you are growing in your faith (not talking about just tongues) sharing the gospel, loving God and your neighbour, then the Holy Spirit IS working with power in your life. And that is all you will ever need!

There is no OT promise for tongues, the way it is practised today. Jesus is the promise. The Holy Spirit is given to us when we are saved, to seal the promise of Jesus. Not for some individual singular experience! The Holy Spirit is the link to Jesus and the Father! Why do you need a bigger link? I assure you, God gave you the whole package when you were saved. So live it!

Why on earth would you apologize for a choice I made, as a young Christian? How ridiculous! I learned what was wrong with the Pentecostal movement. Really, it was the Holy Spirit who showed me the error, and moved me to churches with strong doctrine, and love for one another, and fellowship It was the Holy Spirit who called me to seminary, where I learned and grew so much, and also got tools to minister to people in Real life, and online. And God who has called me to do a PhD in theology, to reach the hurting and broken.

God has always been in control of my life! He has always been there to lead and guide, including pulling me back when I did not listen and took a wrong turn.

I know God loves me. It is the first thing God told me when he saved me. But, he also told me to repent of my sin, and he has helped me through my 39 year journey as a Christian.

As for your comments - do you even go to church? Even a house group? It is the ultimate of pride to think you can grow in Christ on your own. Yes, the Holy Spirit leads you! But, if you are not in fellowship with other Christians in real life, it is not the Holy Spirit who is leading you. It is also the height of pride to think you only need to listen the Holy Spirit, when God left the church as a community. Why did Paul have to write all those epistles? A lot of it was correction. People who thought they were listening to the Holy Spirit, when they were being deceived. That is one important reason we need to be in a church, with godly people.

The Bible has always been clear that community is the goal. Why? Because God is triune! He is three in one. He is a community, a social Trinity. We are created in the image of God. That image is not an individual off by themselves, it is about community, fellowship, and learning from others, from books, from many different things. In fact, that is what brings balance to your life, since, we do not listen, and we see God through a glass darkly!

"For now we see in a mirror indirectly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know fully, just as I have been fully known. " 1 Cor. 13:12

We do not have all knowledge, but when Christ returns, we will see him as he is!

"Dear friends, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that whenever it is revealed we will be like him, because we will see him just as he is." 1 John 3:2

And then, we will be transformed into the same image!

"And we all, with unveiled faces reflecting the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another, which is from the Lord, who is the Spirit." 2 Cor. 3:18

So no! Christians are not solitary beings, all the above verses are addressed in the plural to a community. Other than Paul's letters to Timothy and Titus, to tell them how to pastor their churches, the NT was never meant to be about a single person, trying to walk with the Holy Spirit. We NEED a church body. And they will never be perfect! But, we can stay and try to change them, or move on as God leaders us. And we can always learn and grow, if we do not think we know everything already.

The Holy Spirit speaks through the Bible. He speaks through the sermon, the music, prayer time, Bible studies, in groups. We need to be in community! We need to be in fellowship!

"What we have seen and heard we announce to you too, so that you may have fellowship with us (and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ)." 1 John 1:3

"But if we walk in the light as he himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin." 1 John 1:7

Some more functions of a church community.

"Brothers and sisters, if a person is discovered in some sin, you who are spiritual restore such a person in a spirit of gentleness. Pay close attention to yourselves, so that you are not tempted too. 2 Carry one another’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ." Gal. 6:1-2

In fact, being part of a church community, or fellowship, assembly or whatever you want to call it is commanded in the NT:

"And let us take thought of how to spur one another on to love and good works, 25 not abandoning our own meetings, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging each other, and even more so because you see the day drawing near." Hebrews 10:24-25

In abandoning church, whether denominational or not, you have wandered astray. And the Holy
Spirit did not lead you there. The real key is always to compare your experience to the Bible. When you walk away from organized church, and think you are being led by the Holy Spirit, when you focus on 5 passages in Acts, you are not in the will of God.

Hmm! Bit of the gift of exhortation there, I guess. Sometimes I teach, sometimes I preach, and sometimes I exhort. I hope you don't think I am targeting you, there are many other people here this applies to! I hope they are listening to this important message about fellowship with the body of Christ. There simply is no solo Christian in the Bible! We were not created that way!

• Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

As John the Baptist said, Jesus will baptize with the Holy Spirit and fire. Peter confirmed this by quoting the prophet Joel.

I am so very thankful and humbled that God has given me his Holy Spirit and that daily and often I can pray
in the tongues of men and of angels.
Power, miracles, healings, blessings, overcoming many tribulations …
knowledge, discerning of spirits, faith, healing and working of miracles are all in my walk and of my testimony to being a disciple
of Christ Jesus and the full gospel of salvation.

Therefore it says, “When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.”
Ephesians 4:8 (ESV)

Here is the problem with the WHOLE charismatic movement in a nutshell.

The Gospel relegated to a tiny footnote at the end of a post, and experience and "gifts" elevated higher than our Lord.

Yeah, there doesn't need to be an angel language. Charlie talked to them just fine on a special phone.

the pentecostal movement of 1900 are the only ones to think it had to do with speaking in angel languages.

@Angela53510,

Thank you for your concern for me by encouraging me to have fellowship with other believers. So sorry if I led you to believe I don't.

I simply said that I've come out of all denominations which are man's doctrines and traditions. It is denominations that choose what part of the Bible they will use and what they will throw out - just like people do - some can dance, some cannot, some can use musical instruments, some cannot, some can drink, some cannot, some can worship on Saturday, some cannot, some can wear make-up, some cannot, etc. - such is the foolishness of man. I do not follow such foolishness.

What I do enjoy is love for each other and encouraging each other in faith in Yeshua/Jesus Christ. Praying for each other never losing sight of our first love.........

I do not rely on man to teach me, I am to prove all things by studying the Word for myself - not just believing what someone said. When I study the Word, I rely totally and completely on the Holy Spirit to teach me. To taste the hidden manna is incredible!

1 John 2:26-27 King James Version (KJV)
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

My intentions with this post is to let you know that I am with the Lord and He is watching over me just fine. Also, I know He is also with you, watching over you, too! So, we need only to love one another! I wish you all the best! Enjoy your journey.........



.

@Waggles
With what do you disagree?

Hold on, Waggles didn't say anything about being thankful for the charismatic movement..........

I think the passage you cite above was for the Apostles themselves. Why would Paul say that some people would get the gift of teaching, and discernment, meaning some wouldn't, if EVERYBODY got those gifts, and NO ONE needed teachers with discernment?

Hold on there PennEd, I think we put too much emphasis on a statement in excluding any common sense application that might be evident. Take teachers, for an example. Paul said this:

1 Cor. 12:28, 29 “And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?”

Could he have meant "are all merely teachers?" Because I think any mature Christian should be able to teach when the opportunity presents itself. I believe the following scripture shows this:

Heb. 5:12 “For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.”

Spiritual discernment may also be a universal gift. I would certainly hope so, anyway.

Hello sister! Love your humble spirit!

I'd like to address a few Scriptures and thoughts you have put forward here over the past couple of days.

Although I certainly agree that we can grieve and quench the Holy Spirit that has sealed us upon our NEW Birth, and that He can be more Present and tangible AT TIMES, which some may refer to as a filling or refilling of Him or the Holy Spirit "falling" on someone, I don't believe there is a difference between becoming a Born Again Child of God, being filled and sealed at that time by the Holy Spirit, and a separate event of Him Baptizing us in the Holy Spirit.

But I was intrigued by the Scripture you posted the other day, which seemed at 1st to in fact be a separate event:

Acts 8:14-16 King James Version (KJV)
14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Acts 8:14-16 New International Version (NIV)
14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria.

15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit,

16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.


I found a commentary that seemed to clear this up for me. It said that these people in Samaria were likely Baptized in the Name of Christ alone because of their contact with Jesus Himself when He was in that region, or the testimony of others like the woman at the well.

They may not even had known that Jesus was crucified, died and resurrected. So they may have believed He was the Messiah, the Son of God, but NOT the other necessary component of THE GOSPEL UNTO SALVATION!



I think the passage you cite above was for the Apostles themselves. Why would Paul say that some people would get the gift of teaching, and discernment, meaning some wouldn't, if EVERYBODY got those gifts, and NO ONE needed teachers with discernment?


Be Blessed!

Hello PennEd!

I love your humble spirit, too! You have always been a blessing.

When you seeked clarification, why did you go in search of commentaries?

Human reasoning can have a measure of truth but, it can also be an opinion.........to me, human reasoning found in most (not all) but most commentaries is blindness meaning it leads people away from truth into confusion and even division.

The ONLY ONE with the Truth you seek is the Holy Spirit - The Spirit of Truth. Try walking through the scriptures with NO COMMENTARIES, only the Holy Spirit.......seek Him and let Him teach you.

Feel free to read commentaries - some of them are very interesting. Enjoy them but, when you seek Truth - go to the Holy Spirit.

Feel free to go to any christian church you want - some of them are very interesting. Enjoy them but, when you seek Truth - go to the Holy Spirit.

Human reasoning speaks of the gifts of the Holy Spirit as if they belong to us, they don't. Human reasoning brings division in the Body of Christ over the gifts.

All the gifts belong to the Holy Spirit and ONLY operated with Him. The gifts are for the whole Body of Christ, not just the Apostles. The Apostles were laying their hands on believers to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit because it is for everyone in the Body of Christ - the power to testify and witness for Christ.

What I'm saying is .....let ALL the gifts of the Holy Spirit flow freely and do not hinder or quench them. The gifts are distributed where they are needed which is not the same gift every where in the Body of Christ.

If we speak against the gifts and say they are not necessary or only for the Apostles, there is no way that would be the Will of God.

First let me say I DID pray for wisdom and discernment over that passage. EVERY post WE write here MAKES US commentators, with our OWN mini commentaries.

Those people in Samaria were Baptized under John the Baptists Baptism. They believed in Jesus as Messiah. They were NOT Baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. When someone Baptizes another in those divine, precious Names they have in fact "laid their hands on them".

You are absolutely right that there is no perfect Church, or denomination. They are made up of fallible human Beings. But also brothers and sisters in Christ, that we are told NOT to abandon meeting together with. I have several, even doctrinal differences with my current Church of 7 yrs. But I know the Holy Spirit is Present there, so the differences almost never come up as they don't affect the true Gospel and core Christian beliefs I believe every Christian MUST have.

To see them, look up here the thread I started a while back called "Is there ANYBODY out there!"