The house of Israel
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Romans 9:6-11
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
Galatians 3:6-7
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Galatians 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Who is Israel? The children of Abraham.
Who are the children of Abraham? The children of God.
Who are the children of God? Neither jew nor greek, bond nor free, male or female. All who are Christs are the children of God.
Israel has always been the children of God and the children of God have always been Israel. But only those who are of Faith like Abraham are the true children. Not of the flesh like 99.99% of people mistakenly think.
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
Galatians 3:6-7
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Galatians 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Who is Israel? The children of Abraham.
Who are the children of Abraham? The children of God.
Who are the children of God? Neither jew nor greek, bond nor free, male or female. All who are Christs are the children of God.
Israel has always been the children of God and the children of God have always been Israel. But only those who are of Faith like Abraham are the true children. Not of the flesh like 99.99% of people mistakenly think.
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Romans 9:6-11
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
Galatians 3:6-7
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Galatians 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Who is Israel? The children of Abraham.
Who are the children of Abraham? The children of God.
Who are the children of God? Neither jew nor greek, bond nor free, male or female. All who are Christs are the children of God.
Israel has always been the children of God and the children of God have always been Israel. But only those who are of Faith like Abraham are the true children. Not of the flesh like 99.99% of people mistakenly think.
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
Galatians 3:6-7
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Galatians 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Who is Israel? The children of Abraham.
Who are the children of Abraham? The children of God.
Who are the children of God? Neither jew nor greek, bond nor free, male or female. All who are Christs are the children of God.
Israel has always been the children of God and the children of God have always been Israel. But only those who are of Faith like Abraham are the true children. Not of the flesh like 99.99% of people mistakenly think.
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God does elect individuals for specific purposes. Some examples:
Abraham over Lot
Isaac over Ishmael
Jacob over Esau
The twelve apostles, of which Judas was *elected* to betray Christ, and Paul was elected to replace Judas.
As to why God changed Jacob (the Supplanter) to Israel (a prince with God and men) we need to see that God foreknew that Jacob would eventually become a man of faith, whereas Esau would remain a profane person.
Abraham over Lot
Isaac over Ishmael
Jacob over Esau
The twelve apostles, of which Judas was *elected* to betray Christ, and Paul was elected to replace Judas.
As to why God changed Jacob (the Supplanter) to Israel (a prince with God and men) we need to see that God foreknew that Jacob would eventually become a man of faith, whereas Esau would remain a profane person.
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Yes. That's what the bible says.
Although I can't say I 100% understand how or why.
Yes.
Yes.
That is people trying to be God and not God actually being God.
God chooses Whom He Will Choose and Election stands.
If we don't like it what exactly are we going to do about it? Pout?
Romans 9:20-24
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Although I can't say I 100% understand how or why.
Yes.
Yes.
That is people trying to be God and not God actually being God.
God chooses Whom He Will Choose and Election stands.
If we don't like it what exactly are we going to do about it? Pout?
Romans 9:20-24
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Well Daniel 12 and Revelation neither definitely say a new physical temple will be built and some will argue Thes.2:3-4.....but Paul has more verses that say we are the temple of God than indicate a temple will be built.....
All of this is why I asked the question not that I have never read an abomination that makes desolate and takes away sacrifice will occur at mid trib......
.........The real question is whether these things are actual physical or spiritual because.....Rev. 22:19-22 says there will be a New Jerusalem and I SAW NO TEMPLE THEREIN........!
According to scripture constructing a new temple is pointless.....and mamy would argue this with you were you to start a thread asking if their will be another temple built because.......
Christ has become the new temple and he destroyed the old one.....because it served GOD NAUGHT.....
..........Paul argues the same
But..... The fact remains there exists no scripture that definitely says another temple will be built....
..........Point anywhere you like it won't show it definitely it has been unsuccessfully debated forever and remains an undecided point of contention as I said that a whole thread could run off of.
But if you believe you have a scripturally persuasive support and case for it I for one would certainly be open to considering it......otherwise if I wasn't open minded I would have just said it would never happen.....
.......But my opinion is there is no real point to its physical construction.....😀
Grandpa, It is hard to believe that I have found someone that interprets the scriptures so closely to how I interpret them. Do you believe that the scriptures teach that there are different applications of salvation, one being an eternal deliverance and that they signify several deliverance's we receive as we live here in this world?
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Not according to foreknowledge, but according to Divine knowledge -- omniscience.
ALL MEN ARE SINNERS
God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God. Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. (Ps 53:2,3)
ALL MEN MAY BE SAVED (ROMANS 10)
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above)
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
THOSE WHO BELIEVE ARE ELECTED (PREDESTINED) TO BE PERFECTED AND GLORIFIED
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (Rom 8:29,30)
ALL MEN ARE SINNERS
God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God. Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. (Ps 53:2,3)
ALL MEN MAY BE SAVED (ROMANS 10)
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above)
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
THOSE WHO BELIEVE ARE ELECTED (PREDESTINED) TO BE PERFECTED AND GLORIFIED
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (Rom 8:29,30)
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Salvation, according to the Greek interpretation means "a deliverance". The scriptures teach that there is an eternal deliverance and that there are many deliverance's we receive here on earth. Our eternal deliverance is by the grace of God, without man's choice and the deliverance's we receive here on earth is by our good works in following God's commandments. Romans 10, verse 1 - BRETHREN, his brothers in Christ) My hearts desire and prayer to Israel (Jacob - spiritual Israel) is that they might be delivered (saved here in this world) For I bear them record that they have a ZEAL (the natural man as described does, in 1 Cor 2:14, not have a zeal of God) of God, but not according to Knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness (by their works), have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. The whole chapter 10 has reference to a salvation (deliverance) they receive here on earth by understanding what Paul is teaching them about God's righteousness. Jesus instructed his apostles to go and preach to the lost sheep (regenerated children) that they might be saved (delivered) from their lack of knowledge of God's righteousness.
I would say the broad grouping would include both wouldn't you brother ?
I do believe God is all about both predetermination and his Holy Spirit saving all the lost sinners he can before the door of probation closes.
I firmly believe our Father loves us ......otherwise why would he visit and heal and save the lost soul of a drunkard like myself ???
In order that I might serve to help a few others ????
I believe Christ suffered and died for everyone who would come to faith in him.....
Some are destined and some hear is call some he intentionally seeks out to fulfill his purposes.....
I don't sweat which are which.....I just know his power is unequaled....and he can make sons of Abraham from rocks and Armies from dry bones.....he is unlimited and can take the worst of the worst and Elect them to be whatever his pleasure is !!!
I have personally felt and experienced the indiscribable power.....so.....I......KNOW !!!
.............I can't claim to just walking by Faith......
I love him for saving my life and I walk in Faith of knowing he did......so it doesn't matter to me if I am the least of the least....
............What matters to me is his loving mercy is so unlimited that he loved me and my life enough to save me.....and for that I am eternally greatful....even if my job is to wash the feet of his elect.....I would gladly do it.
Because of all that he has done for me !!!😀
Praise Be To Gods Great Gloriful Power and our Salvation in Christ !!!!
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O
I agree there is no mention of a 3rd Temple being built. But 2 things I look at, (1). Who mentions "Daily Sacrifice," which in verse 12 is Yeshua. And (2). What does "Daily Sacrifice" relate to (it only happens in the Temple).
Daily Sacrifice only takes place in a physical Temple. Yeshua makes it clear, that Daily Sacrifice will happen in the first part of the Great Tribulation. And around midpoint of the Great Tribulation, the antichrist will stop the Jews from practicing their Daily Sacrifice. This is when the Jews discover the antichrist is not the Messiah (Revelation's Chapter 12 goes in detail concerning this).
If I were a betting man from just what we read in Daniel Chapter 12, I would say a Temple must be in place somewhere around the beginning of the Great Tribulation for "Daily Sacrifice" to begin, so it can be stopped by the antichrist around midpoint!!
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O
Nah, I just am not wasting my time here with you on this is all. I understand the dynamics rather well. Interesting enough, this is a hot topic in most Christian based Universities. I just do not see the reasoning for putting the effort in, when you aren't grasping the simple context of God's Endless Mercy. Which covet's Israel, not denies her nor forsakes her. If ultimately God was going to push Israel aside for the Gentiles, He would not have wasted His time having His Disciple (Peter) be in charge to bring the Gospel to the Jews. James (1/2 bro of Yeshua) even created a Council. Here they decided what the Gentiles needed to do to keep in the fold.
God sure invested time into many Jews to do His bidding for Him to spread the Gospel (to both Jew/Gentile). If He was completely done with Israel, there would be NO JEW DISCIPLES or APOSTLE'S. And yet, Yeshua drove Paul to teach both the Jew and Gentile.
There is way too much trying to save Jewish souls going on in the Book of Acts to think God actually put Israel aside.
FGC,
You wanted to know the honest truth about "the house of Israel", not the DISHONEST REINTERPRETATIONS of men. Now you have taken Roman 10:1 and turned it on its head in order to fit your theology, rather than making your theology conform to the Word of God.
Who is Paul talking about in Romans 10:1?
The Jews who rejected Christ. "That they might be saved" means exactly what it says. That the might be saved from Hell, from damnation, from eternal separation from God. NOT "saved here in the world" (which means absolutely nothing).
How do we know that these are the unsaved Jews who were attempting to establish their own righteousness through the deeds of the Law?
1. ...they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge....
2. ...[they are] going about to establish their own righteousness...
3. ...they being ignorant of God's righteousness...
4. [they] have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God...
And because this did not fit your theology you called them *spiritual Israel* when they are the EXACT OPPOSITE.
So now you have to sit down with yourself and make a MAJOR DECISION. Will you believe God regardless of all your indoctrination, and throw away all that theological baggage, or will you wilfully reject what Scripture says and go on promoting false doctrines?
You wanted to know the honest truth about "the house of Israel", not the DISHONEST REINTERPRETATIONS of men. Now you have taken Roman 10:1 and turned it on its head in order to fit your theology, rather than making your theology conform to the Word of God.
Who is Paul talking about in Romans 10:1?
The Jews who rejected Christ. "That they might be saved" means exactly what it says. That the might be saved from Hell, from damnation, from eternal separation from God. NOT "saved here in the world" (which means absolutely nothing).
How do we know that these are the unsaved Jews who were attempting to establish their own righteousness through the deeds of the Law?
1. ...they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge....
2. ...[they are] going about to establish their own righteousness...
3. ...they being ignorant of God's righteousness...
4. [they] have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God...
And because this did not fit your theology you called them *spiritual Israel* when they are the EXACT OPPOSITE.
So now you have to sit down with yourself and make a MAJOR DECISION. Will you believe God regardless of all your indoctrination, and throw away all that theological baggage, or will you wilfully reject what Scripture says and go on promoting false doctrines?
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Sounds to me like you are one of his elect. I believe the scriptures to teach that we are all born into this world as totally depraved sinners because of Adam's disobedience. 1 Cor 2:14 describes our situation until God regenerates us by putting a new heart within us along with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (Eph 2:5). This new birth was done totally by God's sovereign grace and not man's choice. After we have this new heart, we then seek to please God and to learn more about his love for us, his elect.