A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

Right,same thing I should have done. smh

We are NOT CONFUSED.

No, you did not....you said...

kaylagrl said:
If you have read the NT you would not be confused.

Now you are changing what you said....can you see why I question the honesty of people sometimes.....

The you viciously Criticised my Study without even thoroughly reading it.

It is in Segment 2, 5th and 6th Paragraph. Paragraph 4 has part of the paragraph before and after the long list of Problems mention in the Corinthian Church is IN THE MIDDLE.

EVERY SINGLE EXAMPLE IN THE BIBLE WITH TONGUES SPEAKING, had Unbelieving Jews HEARING the Mighty Works of GOD. That includes Cornelius's house. The UNBELIEVING JEWS were the JEWISH BELIEVERS that came along with Peter. AT THAT TIME, they did not believe that GOD could save Gentiles, in the same way HE DID JEWS. Remember in the TEMPLE the Gentiles could not go any further into the TEMPLE than the Court of the GENTILES.


Notice the GENTILES has to stand behind that wall where the Mikvahs were lacated.

I am calm, the ONLY REASON that I do not want to debate this is study with YOU, this study was started in the early 80's, when my wife's sister's thought I led her astray, because she used to speaking in tongues, and then SHE HERSELF had the Holy Spirit convince it was all a COUNTERFEIT. Then I had several people want to DEBATE me via LETTERS, and then I got a computer in 1995, one at a time, I put it on three different WEBSITES, and HUNDRED's of people want to debate men. I have been CALLED VICIOUS NAMES because I Did a NON- Charismatic Understanding On Tongues. Even my sister-inlaws YELLED at me across the Dinner Table. I mean the VICIOUS ATTACKS ALWAYS CONTINUED, AND YOURS WAS NOT THE WORSE. I know EVERYTHING YOU WILL SAY want to say, I KNOW YOUR ARGUMENTS BY HEART, because I HAVE HEARD THEM ALL, OVER, and OVER, and OVER , and OVER again. I literally KNOW I have not heard any NEW ARGUMENT IN over 20 years. ALL TRYING TO CONVINCE ME THEY Have the REAL GIFT, and IT IS ONLY A COUNTERFEIT of what the APOSTLES DID. There is NOTHING TO DEBATE, because I believe 100%, the TRUE Gift of Tongues is way the Holy Spirit has had me write it. I am TIRED OF DISCUSSING TONGUES.

You sound like a high school kid.

Well kaylagrl, when the pentecostal movement came 1907 to Kassel germany it is reportet that their was singing and confessing sins. And the prophecy told that a mighty pentecost will come.
It is also reportet that people fall backward on the floor, crying, screaming, loud handclapping, noising like a horse, half conciensless people sank to the floor. (the list is not complete) The meetings fall out of controll so the police had to stopp them.
The same events we find during the torontoblessings.

Events like laughing in the spirit, silent in the spirit, holy rolling, and so one. People without of controle.

You rely believe such events came out of the Holy Spirit?

This doctrine seperatet believers in Christ till today, as no other doctrine
did.

From our side, we cant see in it Gods Spirit behind.
And from Pentecostal/Charismatic side, we are not real Christians because we are deny the Power of the Holy Spirit, because we hinder the baptism of the Holy Spirit in our iives for to empower us.

According my understanding only one of these both views is true.
It is difficult for each side to realize to be maby wrong.

Thats says nothing about not beiing brother and sister in the Lord!!!

I get them most always from Catholics and Charismatics ....hmmm

Its more than this, Baptizo was used as the boat. But it was also used in the work of taking a garment and “dyeing” or “baptizo” that shirt with a dye to give it color. A “baptizer” was actually a person who would dye garments.

People forget I think that we are told the children of Israel were baptized into moses. Our baptism into christ would be the same type of baptism. Placed in union with Christ, as they were placed into union with Moses (moses being the head)

Then you had the ceremonial washings of the law called baptisms. Also spoken of in the NT. Which represented taking the utensils of the temple and washing them.

You got it

They say pray for the abptism of the spirit so you can get tongues, Or it is the infilling of the HS who takes our bodies and gives us an outpouring of special gifts like tongues or prophecying or healings or whatever.

It affects it by applying it in a way which is not according to what they actually are.

John said Jesus (the lamb of God who woud take away the sins of the world) would baptize with the spirit, Jesus reiterated that people would be baptized by the spirit. It all had to do as apposed to being baptised in water (which represented cleansing) so baptism of the spirit (the fulfillment of the symbol of water baptism) must be translated in that way.

Rom 6, Gal 3, 1 cor 12, and col 2 are examples of baptism which are done by the spirit. (Note than many think they are all talking of water baptism which is false)

Yes they all spoke in tongues, I am not denying that

Byt NOT because of baptism of the spirit. Their spiritual cleansing did not cause them to speak in tongues, Their ANOINTING of the HS allowed the HS to speak through them in tongues..

Thats my point sis.

I agree sis. That was my point, if people are going to get mad and judge one person. They need to do the same for another.

When yu get mad at the one you disagree with, but allow the people you agree with to do the same. It is called beig a hypocrite. (Or do as I say, not what I do)

Your right

One represents being made spiritually clean

The other represents what happens with the HS in you

And do not forget the baptism of fire (hell) Jesus will baptise all people with the spirit or fire. You beter get the HS or you will suffer the fire, and as John said, He will eaither seperate you from the chaff and bring you into the barn (heaven) or he will burn with an unquenchable fire (this is hellfire)

Sadly you can say this about both sides.

1 cor 14: 18 I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all; 19 yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

I think paul made it clear what his wish was for in the church, About teaching others. Not about a bunch of people speaking in tongues..

Sadly I fear people have forgotten what the church is all about.. And that is not just the charismatic group. Most “mainstream” churches I feat have forgotten, and they are falling because they have failed to become all things for all people

Thanks to all

As for baptized “in” or “with”

The greek word can be translated either way

So to get context. All we have to do is go to scripture to see what it is

1. Paul tells us we have been baptised into the death and buial of Christ? Who has the power to do this? God
2 Paul talls us we were baptized INTO Christ. Again who has the power to do this, God!
3. Paul says we were baptized into his body. Again, Only God can do this and not only this, but paul says it was performed by the spirit.

Ps. Non of these passages speak of water baptizm. Baptize is used as an action word. They are stating we are literlaly baptized INTO those things.. (my point about not translating the word is shown here)

4. Paul tells us that our spiritual circumcision done by the hand of God, this is accomplished by being baptized by the one who raised Jesus from the dead (again the spirit)

So baptism of the spirit in biblical context is Jesus using the spirit to baptize or immerse us into these things, were we are spiriotually circumcised (cleansed or washed) and placed into vital union with christ, as the children of israel were baptized into moses.

They mistake it because

1. The word is transliterated not translated
2. They misunderstand what the words mean
3. They think one action (speaking in tongues) is a direc t reasult of the other (baptism of the spirit) which is wrong. Yes, Those people were baptised by the spirit (meaning they are completely clean washed and saved) but the gifts came because of the HS being placed our poure out into you.


If one thinks about it. The HS was baptized INTO YOU, not the other way around.. You were not baptised INTO the spirit. He was baptized INTO you