What does sanctification have to do with salvation?

But this theologically biased term and not truth. Your definition of conditional sanctification is justification. Sanctification comes in when we apply the word of God in our lives.

When you eat the sacrament don't you again hunger? How about the bread itself is it unleavened?

for those who seem to think sanctification is some kind of work to be avoided at all costs and that it indicates someone who does not understand salvation, sanctification is actually the process through which a follower of Christ PROVES they are saved

no sanctification = no depth= no change = lip service only

15Beware of false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.16By their fruit you will recognize them. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?17Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20So then, by their fruit you will recognize them.

21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Matthew 7

the fruit is not the works and the works are not self effort

it is life in the Spirit of God and sanctification is not the work of human hands, but the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives

No. My defenition of POSITIONAL SANCTIFICATION is justification, It is called being “set apart” in Christ.

Conditional sanctification is when we use Gods word and his power to change our lives. And even thatis a work of God.



John 6 is not about some sacrament, so I am not sure what your talking about That is a false application of John 6

John 6 is about chewing on the word of God and coming to salvation based on that word. As jesus said, it is the SPIRIT who gives life, the WORDS he SPEAKS are SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE

Even peter understood when he said YOU HAVE THE WORDS of eternal life

Okay so in other words dear one, are you made perfect through your conditional sanctification upon your justification?

YES!

YES!

No

Not even sure how you came to this conclusion my friend.

it has been my experience here that folks seem to mix up works with 'fruit' and sanctification with works. certainly not everyone but those who do are adamant that anyone who does not accept their interpretation are wrong and are depending on their flesh for salvation

no one says that, but they keep insisting it is being said

when the Bible tells us we were or rather are, created do do good works which are in Christ Jesus, it means exactly that

these are the lasting works God ordains and that His Spirit enables us to do

Ephesians 2
6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace,expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.


says exactly that right above

we are saved by God's grace, not our works, we have not done it, it is a gift, no one can boast, BECAUSE it is ALL about God and what HE creates/created IN His Son, (we are) His handiwork (made, designed, produced) for the purpose of continuing the work of Christ on this earth, which purpose we were designed IN ADVANCE to do. God always had a plan.

I believe we have free will; by in advance, I understand that to mean the end result of God's plan and those IN Him through His Son accommodate themselves to that will by His Spirit

does God need our co-operation? yes He does.

no need to confuse sanctification with works at all. it is actually the next logical step but a spiritual one

we cannot be in agreement with God, we cannot accept what He says, if we do not apply the practical things necessary for the sanctification God's desires we walk in

yes we are IN Christ. but we are grafted in to the Vine and if we remove ourselves we will not produce what that Vine produces

that is my understanding

No

Not even sure how you came to this conclusion my friend.

yes we are IN Christ. but we are grafted in to the Vine and if we remove ourselves we will not produce what that Vine produces

It has to do with "... holiness without which no man shall see the Lord"

Hebrews, for by ONE SACRIFICE he HAS PERFECTED FOREVER (also known as justified, born again, redeemed, Positionally sanctified etc etc) those who are being sanctified (conditional sanctification)




Why do you have to eat this food if whoever eats it will never hunger or thirst, and they will never die.

If you have to eat it ever again, It does not what Jesus promised it would do. It did nto endure forever as he promised,


Not sure what you mean here

[qupte]You are sanctified, (set apart) first by the grace, (favor) of God when you believe and trust in the one sent.

When you say remove yourself were you talking about renewing the mind or progressive sanctification where we receive GODs grace through faith when you say “remove yourself did you mean to not receive grace through faith In our walk?

I was asking because I don’t believe a person can remove themselves from being eternally saved but they can removed themselves from getting some rewards.

respond to his drivel,

no

I meant walking by the flesh. not being led by the Holy Spirit

the Bible is very specific on how we are to walk, but so many, as I already stated, confuse doing anything with a work and they will tell you that you are working for your salvation

it seems clear that we progress as long as we stay in the true vine and our fruit...not works...will be pleasing to God

15 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
John 15

Jesus goes on to speak about the commandments, but not the law.

people just seem to get so mixed up over what to follow and what sanctification is

one thing it is not, is self effort and thinking you have to do something to continue in salvation

the way I see it, is you will do the good works you were created to do if you remain in Christ...led by His Spirit

so many churches have programs to bring people in or make money. while I do not necessarily see a problem there, it becomes one if that is the summation of how your church operates

could say much more but no, I was not saying what you though so thanks for asking to clarify

What happens if the Disciple begins to ignore this? See John 6:66

I don’t agree with the part that says If you remain In CHRIST,I believe that HE started a good work In us and HE shall ComPlete It.
HIS promise are yes and amen.

no

I meant walking by the flesh. not being led by the Holy Spirit

the Bible is very specific on how we are to walk, but so many, as I already stated, confuse doing anything with a work and they will tell you that you are working for your salvation

it seems clear that we progress as long as we stay in the true vine and our fruit...not works...will be pleasing to God

15 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
John 15

Jesus goes on to speak about the commandments, but not the law.

people just seem to get so mixed up over what to follow and what sanctification is

one thing it is not, is self effort and thinking you have to do something to continue in salvation

the way I see it, is you will do the good works you were created to do if you remain in Christ...led by His Spirit

so many churches have programs to bring people in or make money. while I do not necessarily see a problem there, it becomes one if that is the summation of how your church operates

could say much more but no, I was not saying what you though so thanks for asking to clarify

Amen sister!

Listening to some baptist preachers, its almost a sin to stop sinning! (Its a joke, relax!)

The Bible is clear on the subject, for every and all proof-texts for OSAS there is surrounding context completely refuting the idea. The doctrine is debunked in every single N.T. book. Even the famous Galatians one which is twisted to teach a "do nothing" gospel.

Galatians 6:8
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

respond to his drivel,
Thats not works-salvation, thats BIBLE. I dont know about you sis, but I know many people who were genuinely in the faith and then fell away.

I dont belong to this group, but the article is interesting to say the least, the esoteric gnostic dual-nature connection is present today, repackaged: http://churchofchristarticles.com/b...ncient-doctrine-of-once-saved-always-saved-2/

Now that opens a whole can of worms where the esoteric interpretation is put on all the warning texts and so it goes: "The TRULY regenerated/saved/justified will sow to the Spirit and the unsaved will sow to the flesh". The problem with this spin on it is: This is written to the church in Galatia, just like all the other epistles are adressed to believers, if this was the case this verse and all others alike would be completely void of all meaning, since its automatic that the truly saved WILL persevere. I got no problem with people believing that, I just dont think its true, but if they persevere praise the Lord

I'm actually not familiar with Baptists other then what I have heard and read around here. so do I laugh? LOL! dunno

I agree with what you say about OSAS. another thing that confirms it to me, is the vengeful spirit with the rhetoric that accompanies it. I mean, what are you folks so angry about if it's all good?



well of course. if someone leaves, they were never saved to begin with blah blah blah...and then John is quoted like so:

18Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they did not belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But their departure made it clear that none of them belonged to us.

ripped out of context from the rest of the chapter and John's general warnings to Christians

well it's 'drivel' if you don't believe it and how would you not believe it if it is in scripture? mix 'n match verses until you get what you believe I guess.

the entire OT should be redacted ... the behavior of the Israelites is nothing at all like modern day Christians so no need to bother with it. shame on them anyway nothing to learn there (it's a joke. relax)

I'll check out that link.