100% Election 100% of the time.
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maybe like language -- words aren't anything in themselves, but representations of something else.
maybe all these physical things are pictures and symbols of spiritual things - like projections into a physical space of a higher meta-reality, like a shadow on a sidewalk: the shadow isn't you, and it only exists in 2d, but it looks like you, moves like you, represents you.
how does infinite God fit in a human body? this is the mystery of Christ, in the flesh, all over again.
these things are not easy
maybe all these physical things are pictures and symbols of spiritual things - like projections into a physical space of a higher meta-reality, like a shadow on a sidewalk: the shadow isn't you, and it only exists in 2d, but it looks like you, moves like you, represents you.
how does infinite God fit in a human body? this is the mystery of Christ, in the flesh, all over again.
these things are not easy
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U
I know that people hear the truth and are persuaded that it is true....I think those with your belief system have the problem.
Faith is the passive result of being persuaded, convinced, and convicted that something is true.
One cannot determine faith......this is essential to understanding how people come to believe and being dead in their sins does not mean people cannot be persuaded.
Faith is not an act of the will....we cannot will ourselves to believe.
Faith is the passive result of being persuaded, convinced, and convicted that something is true.
One cannot determine faith......this is essential to understanding how people come to believe and being dead in their sins does not mean people cannot be persuaded.
Faith is not an act of the will....we cannot will ourselves to believe.
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God’s Memorials
Rev. 14:9-11 “And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”
Some things are preserved in God's memory that is just as good as having them on file or archived digitally. His recall is 100%. Here is a case for something in God's memory:
Mark 9:47, 48 "And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." Come on, a maggot that never dies. What is that?
Be aware that Sheol and Hades simply refers to the grave. Our doctrine of a dwelling place of the dead is inserted into Strong's Concordance as a reference. The reference in Revelation where they are tormented day and night forever, their smoke ascending forever could refer to something captured on film, therefore forever preserved. The reference in Mark 9:44: "Where their worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched" I believe is another example of that. It just does not make sense of a maggot that never dies. Anyway, hades is finally tossed into the lake of fire. You can't do that with a dwelling place.
All said, as I stated before all scripture has to fit together, in what we teach, or none of it is valid. Some things were presented in parables with figurative speech. Some things maybe we don't quite understand yet. God will not reveal some things until He is ready for us to know. I feel Lazarus and the rich man is a parable despite the proper names.
When God is finished with purging the universe of evil: all the demons and evil people will be completely destroyed.
Eze. 28:14: "Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire." This establishes identity.
Eze. 28:18: "Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee."
Eze. 28:19: "All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more." This tells of the fate of Satan. Which is also the fate of those that reject the Holy Spirit anointing by the end of the judgement period.
What about this verse:
Rev. 20:10 “And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”
The “are” in many translations was added for ease of reading but changed the meaning. Below is the NIV version which renders it correctly. They were cast. Again, this is just another memorial preserved for the future.
NIV Rev. 20:10 "And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
Rev. 14:9-11 “And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”
Some things are preserved in God's memory that is just as good as having them on file or archived digitally. His recall is 100%. Here is a case for something in God's memory:
Mark 9:47, 48 "And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." Come on, a maggot that never dies. What is that?
Be aware that Sheol and Hades simply refers to the grave. Our doctrine of a dwelling place of the dead is inserted into Strong's Concordance as a reference. The reference in Revelation where they are tormented day and night forever, their smoke ascending forever could refer to something captured on film, therefore forever preserved. The reference in Mark 9:44: "Where their worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched" I believe is another example of that. It just does not make sense of a maggot that never dies. Anyway, hades is finally tossed into the lake of fire. You can't do that with a dwelling place.
All said, as I stated before all scripture has to fit together, in what we teach, or none of it is valid. Some things were presented in parables with figurative speech. Some things maybe we don't quite understand yet. God will not reveal some things until He is ready for us to know. I feel Lazarus and the rich man is a parable despite the proper names.
When God is finished with purging the universe of evil: all the demons and evil people will be completely destroyed.
Eze. 28:14: "Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire." This establishes identity.
Eze. 28:18: "Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee."
Eze. 28:19: "All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more." This tells of the fate of Satan. Which is also the fate of those that reject the Holy Spirit anointing by the end of the judgement period.
What about this verse:
Rev. 20:10 “And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”
The “are” in many translations was added for ease of reading but changed the meaning. Below is the NIV version which renders it correctly. They were cast. Again, this is just another memorial preserved for the future.
NIV Rev. 20:10 "And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
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I think we were here once before about a year ago 
... feels like deja vu!!
This is not the God of the Bible, He does select people just willy nilly and leaves others out of luck as @dcontroversal so aptly put it ....let's just leave it there.
... feels like deja vu!!This is not the God of the Bible, He does select people just willy nilly and leaves others out of luck as @dcontroversal so aptly put it
....let's just leave it there.-
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Yes people cannot see the internal process that occurs when one is born again, like the wind we cannot see the wind....this is not about the wind/Holy Spirit choosing people LOL
The context makes it quite clear, the Will of the Spirit is sovereign and does as He pleases and saves whomsoever He pleases. Precisely the same modus operandi as God the Father and Jesus the Word and Son. Inescapably consistent IMO.
I think we were here once before about a year ago ... feels like deja vu!!
This is not the God of the Bible, He does select people just willy nilly and leaves others out of luck as @dcontroversal so aptly put it ....let's just leave it there.
... feels like deja vu!!This is not the God of the Bible, He does select people just willy nilly and leaves others out of luck as @dcontroversal so aptly put it
....let's just leave it there.
....let's just leave it there."God does his Will in the manner He chooses. And we are in no position to so much as comprehend it let alone criticize it.
Paul understood this well. Very well. And did his best to inform us in his writings.
Read what Paul wrote on this matter and mark it well....
All this speculation about people's salvation and God's calling or lack thereof, is moot. Nobody is going to burn forever just because God did not call them. In fact, nobody is going to burn forever: period. Romans 6:23 tells us the wages of sin is death. Death is death, finito.
God's true salvation plan is laid out in the scriptures, but antichrist jumped on Christianity in the fourth century and gave you a counterfeit church. You are still trying to come out from under that church but your Protestant Reformers won't let you. Keep digging, maybe you'll learn the truth.
God's true salvation plan is laid out in the scriptures, but antichrist jumped on Christianity in the fourth century and gave you a counterfeit church. You are still trying to come out from under that church but your Protestant Reformers won't let you. Keep digging, maybe you'll learn the truth.
Matt 25:41
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."
Rev 20:10
"and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
I think we were here once before about a year ago ... feels like deja vu!!
This is not the God of the Bible, He does select people just willy nilly and leaves others out of luck as @dcontroversal so aptly put it ....let's just leave it there.
... feels like deja vu!!This is not the God of the Bible, He does select people just willy nilly and leaves others out of luck as @dcontroversal so aptly put it
....let's just leave it there.
It is my understanding that Jesus is drawing all men to Himself.
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Roman Catholic heresy.
"The doctrine of universal salvation (also known as Apokatastasis or Apocatastasis ) has usually been considered through the centuries to be heterodox but has become orthodox. It was maintained by the Second Vatican Council and by Pope John Paul II and it is promoted in the new Catechism of the Catholic Church and in the post-Vatican II liturgy. "
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All this speculation about people's salvation and God's calling or lack thereof, is moot. Nobody is going to burn forever just because God did not call them. In fact, nobody is going to burn forever: period. Romans 6:23 tells us the wages of sin is death. Death is death, finito.
God's true salvation plan is laid out in the scriptures, but antichrist jumped on Christianity in the fourth century and gave you a counterfeit church. You are still trying to come out from under that church but your Protestant Reformers won't let you. Keep digging, maybe you'll learn the truth.
God's true salvation plan is laid out in the scriptures, but antichrist jumped on Christianity in the fourth century and gave you a counterfeit church. You are still trying to come out from under that church but your Protestant Reformers won't let you. Keep digging, maybe you'll learn the truth.
Does that include Satan, the Beast and False prophet?
Rev 20:10
"and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
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How are either of those references RELEVANT to what I posted?
And since the moving of the Spirit is mentioned in John 3:8, we must note from Scripture (Rev 22:17) that THE SPIRIT COMPELS NO ONE to be saved:
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
"COME" IS AN INVITATION.
"WHOSOEVER WILL" MEANS THAT NONE ARE EXCLUDED.
And since the moving of the Spirit is mentioned in John 3:8, we must note from Scripture (Rev 22:17) that THE SPIRIT COMPELS NO ONE to be saved:
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
"COME" IS AN INVITATION.
"WHOSOEVER WILL" MEANS THAT NONE ARE EXCLUDED.
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