Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.
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Philippians 3:9
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith
Romans 3:22 - Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
____
If you think it is your righteousness that will help you get to heaven...
You are sorely mistaken.
_____
Romans 9
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
romans 10
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith
Romans 3:22 - Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
____
If you think it is your righteousness that will help you get to heaven...
You are sorely mistaken.
_____
Romans 9
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
romans 10
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
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Cant give me a scripture about Obeying God. WOW must be difficult for you
1. I gave you a verse about obeying God
2. I always preach that those who have TRUE faith are obedeint (not might be)
3. You can continue, but in doing so. You just cut your own throat.
The pharisees were actually hypocrites, that disobeyed the Law.
Mark 7:5-23 New King James Version (NKJV)
5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?”
6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of (you hypocrites), as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 (For laying aside the commandment of God), you hold the tradition of men—[a]the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”
14 When He had called all the multitude to Himself, He said to them, “Hear Me, everyone, and understand: 15 There is nothing that enters a man from outside which can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those are the things that defile a man. 16 If[c] anyone has ears to hear, let him hear!”
17 When He had entered a house away from the crowd, His disciples asked Him concerning the parable. 18 So He said to them, “Are you thus without understanding also? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, 19 because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, [d]thus purifying all foods?” 20 And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man.
Mark 7:5-23 New King James Version (NKJV)
5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?”
6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of (you hypocrites), as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 (For laying aside the commandment of God), you hold the tradition of men—[a]the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”
14 When He had called all the multitude to Himself, He said to them, “Hear Me, everyone, and understand: 15 There is nothing that enters a man from outside which can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those are the things that defile a man. 16 If[c] anyone has ears to hear, let him hear!”
17 When He had entered a house away from the crowd, His disciples asked Him concerning the parable. 18 So He said to them, “Are you thus without understanding also? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, 19 because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, [d]thus purifying all foods?” 20 And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man.
The whimper clause
You do not know what I believe, you say ...... but that is not true.
A man murders someone, cold deliberate murder
A believer murder someone, cold deliberate murder
God sees what? The unbelievers murder for which they are judged, and sent to hell.
Is blind to the believers murder and only sees Jesus?
A repentant believer who walks in Gods ways and repents of their sins and accepts Christs
sacrifice for sins.
God sees the murder, and sees the atonement, the healing and the transformation in the believer
so forgives the sin, knowing the believer would not do it again.
But God only sees this if the believer repents of the murder they have committed.
Now there are big differences here in view. One is universalism where the believer though a sinner
is deemed clean even though they are not. How such a believer is transformed, ever is never answered
because nothing in their hearts holds out this promise. It is this question that bothered me, a hole in
my reasoning. The door must be open, the heart ready or such a change would destroy me.
To a degree the Lord completes His work, but some completion will destroy some and others will make
them complete. I think we often have our views wrong. It is not so much a anointing entry into heaven
as not being destroyed by the transformation necessary. How terrified have you ever been? Standing on
the edge of cliff, hanging in mid air ready to fall? This will be much worse and more vast and challenging.
Some talk like truth and reality are tame, easy to cope with. Not so if we are the victim without any power
or defense or even pride in anything we have achieved. What greater irony when we see ourselves, we see
only failure and self indulgence, what will be our own judgement? What if our tensions war until nothing
is left? We are no longer rational beings with a future, just chaff to be burnt up of no value to anyone.
You do not know what I believe, you say ...... but that is not true.
A man murders someone, cold deliberate murder
A believer murder someone, cold deliberate murder
God sees what? The unbelievers murder for which they are judged, and sent to hell.
Is blind to the believers murder and only sees Jesus?
A repentant believer who walks in Gods ways and repents of their sins and accepts Christs
sacrifice for sins.
God sees the murder, and sees the atonement, the healing and the transformation in the believer
so forgives the sin, knowing the believer would not do it again.
But God only sees this if the believer repents of the murder they have committed.
Now there are big differences here in view. One is universalism where the believer though a sinner
is deemed clean even though they are not. How such a believer is transformed, ever is never answered
because nothing in their hearts holds out this promise. It is this question that bothered me, a hole in
my reasoning. The door must be open, the heart ready or such a change would destroy me.
To a degree the Lord completes His work, but some completion will destroy some and others will make
them complete. I think we often have our views wrong. It is not so much a anointing entry into heaven
as not being destroyed by the transformation necessary. How terrified have you ever been? Standing on
the edge of cliff, hanging in mid air ready to fall? This will be much worse and more vast and challenging.
Some talk like truth and reality are tame, easy to cope with. Not so if we are the victim without any power
or defense or even pride in anything we have achieved. What greater irony when we see ourselves, we see
only failure and self indulgence, what will be our own judgement? What if our tensions war until nothing
is left? We are no longer rational beings with a future, just chaff to be burnt up of no value to anyone.
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You have it backwards. We do the word as you put it by being saved. No man can obey without the Holy Spirit to do the work. Only the Holy Spirit can produce the fruit of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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His there OSAS believers I am not a jew, go and give these verses about not being justified by the law of moses to the JEWS. They may have more benefits than me
No I am not a JEW Haha. How ridiculous. You people are confused. I am laughing hard at the moment.
No I am not a JEW Haha. How ridiculous. You people are confused
. I am laughing hard at the moment.
Yet Paul said then, NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Your jewish excuse is not helping.
You will not be aloud to lead others away form the true gospel. If you want to be a modern day pharisee, thats on you.
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There are only two types of righteousness found in scripture
1. By the law - no one meets this standard
2. The righteousness of Christ being added to you.
There is no other standard.. Thats why paul said, for ALL (including you and me) have sinned and FALL SHORT.
The term sin (hamarte) literally means missed the mark..
And yep. You and I STILl to this day, miss that mark.
1. By the law - no one meets this standard
2. The righteousness of Christ being added to you.
There is no other standard.. Thats why paul said, for ALL (including you and me) have sinned and FALL SHORT.
The term sin (hamarte) literally means missed the mark..
And yep. You and I STILl to this day, miss that mark.
E
