Not By Works

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SoulWeaver

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
#106,401
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
113
#106,401
VCO said:
This question is for anyone who believes you can Lose your Salvation.
WHAT MAKE YOU SO SURE THAT YOU HAVE NOT ALREADY LOST YOUR SALVATION ? ? ?
Click to expand...
Very good question. I will add another:
Can the person who's lost salvation, hear and obey and repent, and be restored?
It would seem like they preach to people, which are hearers but not doers, and have "lost" salvation, to start obeying, so that they are "saved" again. But the Scriptures say that this is mission impossible:

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

If so, to whom are you preaching? If those who have strayed from the Way cannot be restored, to WHOM are you then preaching? Who do you think YOU are saving, if the Scriptures say they can't be saved? Think about it. Don't open your mouth to immediately answer, I mean really think about it.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#106,402
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#106,402
SoulWeaver said:
Very good question. I will add another:
Can the person who's lost salvation, hear and obey and repent, and be restored?
It would seem like they preach to people, which are hearers but not doers, and have "lost" salvation, to start obeying, so that they are "saved" again. But the Scriptures say that this is mission impossible:

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

If so, to whom are you preaching? If those who have strayed from the Way cannot be restored, to WHOM are you then preaching? Who do you think YOU are saving, if the Scriptures say they can't be saved? Think about it. Don't open your mouth to immediately answer, I mean really think about it.
Click to expand...
I know this is an absolute statement, but NO one will ever convince me that salvation can be lost or forfeit by what we do or don't do.......we may have our butts whipped off for disobedience, we may forfeit physical life, we may lose reward, we may face disease and we may even be put into the proverbial wilderness until our carcass drops in death after "40" years of suffering, but our eternal destiny and salvation is secure in Christ....!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#106,404
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#106,404
blue_ladybug said:
MY carcass is ready to drop.. LOL

View attachment 203408
Click to expand...
HAHAHAHHAHA hilarious....I am still going good after splitting, hauling and stacking about a cord of wood today, mowed about a half acre, bush hogged a food plot, hauled a riding lawn mower on a trailer with a UTV about a mile, checked on loggers logging some of my property and went all day on a smoothie made with 1 apple, 1 banana, almond milk, vanilla instant breakfast and a teaspoon of some powder that has a few things in it at 10:30 AM........... ;)
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#106,406
#106,406
dcontroversal said:
HAHAHAHHAHA hilarious....I am still going good after splitting, hauling and stacking about a cord of wood today, mowed about a half acre, bush hogged a food plot, hauled a riding lawn mower on a trailer with a UTV about a mile, checked on loggers logging some of my property and went all day on a smoothie made with 1 apple, 1 banana, almond milk, vanilla instant breakfast and a teaspoon of some powder that has a few things in it at 10:30 AM........... ;)
Click to expand...
That is the best way to do it.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#106,408
#106,408
SoulWeaver said:
Do expound. I do feel like I really don't understand people who are talking about losing salvation or what their point is.
Click to expand...
Not sure what you mean ... do you want me to expound on Hebrews 6:4?
 
SoulWeaver

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
#106,409
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
113
#106,409
UnderGrace said:
Not sure what you mean ... do you want me to expound on Hebrews 6:4?
Click to expand...
No, I'd want to understand that if the Bible says they cannot be restored, what is the purpose of people preaching at them and "warning" them to "repent" and "get back on track"?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#106,410
#106,410
SoulWeaver said:
No, I'd want to understand that if the Bible says they cannot be restored, what is the purpose of people preaching at them and "warning" them to "repent" and "get back on track"?
Click to expand...
The writer is not speaking being restored to salvation but being restored to a right understanding of what it means to be under grace and not the law.
 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#106,411
Mar 13, 2014
42,597
17,062
113
69
Tennessee
#106,411
dcontroversal said:
You guys talking food......now I am starving....been on a three day smoothie diet (forced) by some dental work that resulted in like 12 shots in my jaw and now so freaking sore cannot take a bite of anything....normal response and will take like 2 to 3 weeks to go away.......thanks a lot.....I would love to eat a juicy greasy cheese burger and some fries with a chocolate shake........... :geek:
Click to expand...
I had surgery in my gums to reshape jawbone in preparing for dentures. I lost count on how many shots but it was probably more that 12, even then it was very painful and the surgery lasted 1 1/2 agonizing hours. Smoothie diet don't sound too bad. I ate a lot of ice cream for 2 or 3 days and Jello. Greasy cheese burger, fries an chocolate shake sound good right now.
 
SoulWeaver

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
#106,412
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
113
#106,412
UnderGrace said:
The writer is not speaking being restored to salvation but being restored to a right understanding of what it means to be under grace and not the law.
Click to expand...
That would make sense, but they use verses such as these to preach the law.

So I am asking them, from what is their point of understanding, if these verses mean that you permanently lose salvation because of disobedience, then WHOM ARE THEY WARNING when they preach to "repent" and "get back on track"? In their understanding, these people have already lost their salvation because they haven't been "working their salvation out". But, in this same understanding, getting back on track will not restore these people unto salvation. So why preach to them? It's meaningless.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#106,413
#106,413
SoulWeaver said:
That would make sense, but they use verses such as these to preach the law.

So I am asking them, from what is their point of understanding, if these verses mean that you permanently lose salvation because of disobedience, then WHOM ARE THEY WARNING when they preach to "repent" and "get back on track"? In their understanding, these people have already lost their salvation because they haven't been "working their salvation out". But, in this same understanding, getting back on track will not restore these people unto salvation. So why preach to them? It's meaningless.
Click to expand...
They do not define the limit on disobedience typically.
That state that at some point one's willful disobedience will cause them to loose their salvation... that has been the typical stance here on this thread.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#106,414
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#106,414
UnderGrace said:
They do not define the limit on disobedience typically.
That state that at some point one's willful disobedience will cause them to loose their salvation... that has been the typical stance here on this thread.
Click to expand...
SoulWeaver said:
That would make sense, but they use verses such as these to preach the law.

So I am asking them, from what is their point of understanding, if these verses mean that you permanently lose salvation because of disobedience, then WHOM ARE THEY WARNING when they preach to "repent" and "get back on track"? In their understanding, these people have already lost their salvation because they haven't been "working their salvation out". But, in this same understanding, getting back on track will not restore these people unto salvation. So why preach to them? It's meaningless.
Click to expand...

What I find interesting is two fold....

a. The verses they blather on about to teach the loss of Salvation actually supports eternal security
b. NONE will say they have lost their salvation (maybe one in my almost 6 years here)
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#106,415
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#106,415
BillG said:
This is my favourite verse.

John 17:23
23 I am in them and you are in me. May they experience such perfect unity that the world will know that you sent me and that you love them as much as you love me.

God loves us as much as he loves Jesus.

I read that verse many times but always overlooked it.
Not sure if it was conscious or subconscious.

Aftertall how could the creator love me as much as he loves Jesus.
Dirty rotten sinner who had no way of reconciliation to the Father.
Well this dirty rotten sinner thought he could.
Work for it, be perfect that will save me.
Alas I couldn't achieve the perfection required from God or Jesus.
Therefore I am doomed.

Then one day when laid up with a bad back God asked me to spend time with him.
I said "no" three times.
You see I couldn't come before God because of guilt, fear of rejection.
God saying "Sorry Bill but now you are out, off to hell with you"

So the 4th time I opened the Bible and said "Ok let's talk"

God said go to

Romans 5:1-5

1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; 4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

So I read the above and was confused.
I had no peace with God.
My anxiety was so severe.
If my anxiety was so severe how could I have faith?
So I looked up the Greek for peace.
It has nothing to do with anxiety.
Basically it means that there is no longer an emnity between God and me.
The war has ended, he has initiated this peace.
Ok I thought.
This peace is as a result of faith.
So I looked up the meaning of faith.
When I saw what it meant I thought "I have this faith"

I believe in Jesus and want to be like him.

Then I looked up this word love.

AGAPE.

That then led me to my favourite verse above.

But I then read

Genesis 3:15
15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”

From the beginning of time the Father had a plan in place.
This was as a result of his Agape love

This was fulfilled

John 19:30
30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

Matthew 27:51
51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split,
Click to expand...
I really like these;

Romans 8:38-39
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

But I think this one is my favorite;

Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

(He doesn't say 'thee'.... He says 'you'... But maybe He said 'thee' to someone from the 1600's...)
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#106,416
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
#106,416
SoulWeaver said:
Very good question. I will add another:
Can the person who's lost salvation, hear and obey and repent, and be restored?
It would seem like they preach to people, which are hearers but not doers, and have "lost" salvation, to start obeying, so that they are "saved" again. But the Scriptures say that this is mission impossible:

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

If so, to whom are you preaching? If those who have strayed from the Way cannot be restored, to WHOM are you then preaching? Who do you think YOU are saving, if the Scriptures say they can't be saved? Think about it. Don't open your mouth to immediately answer, I mean really think about it.
Click to expand...


I am SO GLAD that I am a OSAS Believer from the beginning and on into eternity.

All of those who THINK they can LOSE THEIR SALVATION, must have a hard time falling asleep at night, because WHAT IF THEIR IS A SIN I HAVE NOT CONFESSED, AND I DIE IN MY SLEEP ? ? ?
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#106,417
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#106,417
VCO said:
I am SO GLAD that I am a OSAS Believer from the beginning and on into eternity.

All of those who THINK they can LOSE THEIR SALVATION, must have a hard time falling asleep at night, because WHAT IF THEIR IS A SIN I HAVE NOT CONFESSED, AND I DIE IN MY SLEEP ? ? ?
Click to expand...
From the discussions I have had with people who think that salvation can be lost, they are not so concerned that they will lose salvation.

They just want to convince you that you can lose yours.
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#106,418
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
#106,418
VCO said:
I got it narrow down to four about 50 bucks apiece but still have not made up my mind.
Click to expand...

Found a fifth one that was on sale for about half the price, and ordered it. I will tell you about it, if works on tethered to my Phone, it only said Android in the add, and I have a Samsung Galaxy S6.
 
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