The Absence of Free Will

God changed Jacob's name to be no more called Jacob, but his name is to be called Israel. Many times thereafter when the scriptures mention Israel it has reference to Jacob, who is representative of God's elect, Gen 32:28 and Isaiah 45:4, Isaiah 65:9, Mark 13:22 & 27, Rom 8:33, 1 Pet 1:2-3, 2 John 1:1-13. Rom 9:9-11. Jesus instructed his Apostles to go and preach the gospel to the LOST SHEEP (God's elect) of the house. Not all Israel (the nation) are of Israel (Jacob). John 3:16, The word world is translated by Thayer as pertaining to believers only. God so loved the world of believers (his elect) that he gave his Son........ God tells us to love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. Two different worlds. God would not tell us to not love a world that he so loved.

C.S.Lewis once said.

C.S. Lewis, The Case for Christianity

God's foreknowledge and immaterialness explains how God knows who are in the book of life without interfering with free will. He predestined before time that Christ would die for the sins of the world. That was predetermined that all would no longer be separated by a temple veil.

Romans 2:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 For God does not show favoritism.

Time and beyond time

Another difficulty we get if we believe God to be in time is this. Everyone who believes in God at all believes that He knows what you and I are going to do tomorrow. But if He knows I am going to do so—and-so, how can I be free to do otherwise? Well, here once again, the difficulty comes from thinking that God is progressing along the Time-line like us: the only difference being that He can see ahead and we cannot. Well, if that were true, if God foresaw our acts, it would be very hard to understand how we could be free not to do them.

But suppose God is outside and above the Time-line. In that case, what we call ‘tomorrow’ is visible to Him in just the same way as what we call ‘today’. All the days are ‘Now’ for Him. He does not remember you doing things yesterday; He simply sees you doing them, because, though you have lost yesterday, He has not. He does not ‘foresee’ you doing things tomorrow; He simply sees you doing them: because, though tomorrow is not yet there for you, it is for Him. You never supposed that your actions at this moment were any less free because God knows what you are doing.

Well, He knows your tomorrow’s actions in just the same way— because He is already in tomorrow and can simply watch you. In a sense, He does not know your action till you have done it: but then the moment at which you have done it is already ‘Now’ for Him.

C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

The book of life has recorded the elected. How does that interfere with free will?

The "lost sheep of the house of Israel" were the Jews. He came first to them. He came as their expected Messiah. He came to preach the gospel himself to the Jews only. Afterward it was preached to the Gentiles, but the ministry of Jesus was confined almost entirely to the Jews.

John 3:16
16 “For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.


The Greek word for world
Original Word: κόσμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: kosmos
Phonetic Spelling: (kos'-mos)
the inhabitants of the world

The Greek word for everyone
pas: all, every
Original Word: πᾶς, πᾶσα, πᾶν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: pas
Phonetic Spelling: (pas)
Definition: all, every
Usage: all, the whole, every kind of.

Just as Lewis hinted on the concept of evil how do you answer my 6 conclusions?

I answered your 6 conclusions. We will never understand the truth until we first deny our intellectual ability and depend upon the Holy Spirit within us to reveal the truth to us,, and secondly, rightly divide the word of truth, such as the difference in the world that God told us "not to love", and the world "He so loved". God loved the world of his elect, and that included "all" of the inhabitants of his elect world. He did not love the rest of the world and showed that fact by having Jesus to die for only those that he gave to him, and Jesus said that he would not lose any of those that he died for, but raise them up at the last day- John 6:38. God gave all mankind a free will to choose how he wants to live his life here in this world and by his foreknowledge saw that none, no, not one would seek him- Psalms 53:2. That is why he choose an elect people before the foundation of the world and predetermined his Son to adopt them as his children. Jesus paid the price of the adoption on the cross. The adoption process goes as such - God choose his children and the children had no choice in the adoption, Jesus paid the adoption price, and the final act in the process is when Jesus comes back to gather his elect up and take them home. This process is the same process as we use when we adopt children here in this life.

Your basically saying we will never understand truth in less we shut off our brain. We use our intellectual ability at the same time to think and decide on what to do with what the Spirit feeds us.

Yes he saw that none would seek him as to why he first seeks us, all of us so none are without excuse.

The rest of your interpretation if you know it or not is just some Calvinist doctrine that isnt Biblical. I didn't read scripture in view of doctrines. I just read it and fell on this side of the belief. All your scriptures are not contradicting to free will or that Christ died for all. The Calvin doctrine puts so much focus on a few scriptures and tries to morph all others to fit those few.

So do you disagree with C.S. Lewis on free will? And what part?

Let me clarify that even though I do not see that view as Biblical I believe the Free will believer or free will denier are both saved. I just think denying free will causes many illogical conclusions.

Including who sins when the elect believer sins? I would assume you think your part of the elect? Do you still fall to sin? If so who caused you to sin?

I also believe that the non free will believers and the free will believers both are of the elect. Yes all of the elect do, at times, yield themselves to the temptation of lusting after the things of this world, however when they do, they do not lose their eternal inheritance, because Christ paid for all of their sins. just their fellowship with God until they repent. We all cause ourselves to sin by our natural instincts to sin and by the persuasion of Satan. There are too many scriptures of God telling us to choose certain things to deny free will.

God does not call all mankind, he only calls his elect. only his sheep (elect) hear his voice. Whom the Lord loves, he chastens. I assume that you think that he loves all mankind, right? If the scriptures tell of some of mankind that he does not chasten, would you not think that he did not love them? Psalms 73:5 says The wicked are not PLAGUED (divinely punished) like other men. Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

I think that I have told you before that I do not confer with the writings of other men's interpretations, so I did not read, C. S. Lewis writings. And I have never read John Calvin's writings as you think. I believe that scripture proves scripture and if they all do not harmonize, we cannot understand the doctrine that Jesus taught.

So you dont go to church and listen to a Pastor?

By saying that you are then stating you rely on your own interpretation of the scriptures.

By saying that you are then stating you rely on your own interpretation of the scriptures.
Meanwhile, as a matter of fact, the Bible was written by more than 40 different authors over a period of 1,500 years.

Sola Scriptura, "Scripture Alone", produces doctrinal diversity among all who read the Bible. There can never be a consensus as to what message the Bible's parts are sending because using the Bible to prove the Bible, an artifact of Sola Scriptura, produces diversity of thought on any given message contained in any given passage.
Therefore, what you are seeking in the Bible that harmonizes all scripture is an example of the above as pertains to the diversity Sola Scriptura produces.
Another term for this is pervasive interpretive pluralism .

Pervasive Interpretive Pluralism defined

So is that favoritism? God also doesn't show favoritism.

Acts 10:34
34 Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism

Romans 2:11
11 For God does not show favoritism.

His sheep in that context was the Jewish people. All he meant was that people who had been trying to follow God and not the God that the Pharisees was teaching would respond and notice that Jesus was the Messiah from scripture.

John 10:1
10 “Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber.

They would hear his voice and follow. This by no means excludes anyone. Because

John 10:7-9
7 Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. 8 All who have come before meare thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. 9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture.

Some where sheep before Jesus began his ministry. The sheep was following the Father. But when Jesus was baptized God made it clear that Jesus was His Son. And some would recognize that.

Jesus is the gate and Paul says, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved." He says, "If you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead you will be saved."

Whoever enters through the gate will be saved. You are born again, become of a new flock, no longer a goat but now a sheep.

And Esau I hated doesn't say I hated before time. Your assuming that. It just says and Esau I hated. Could very well mean God speaking in Malachi in past tense to Esua actions in his life.

Malachi 1:2-3
2 “I have loved you,” says the Lord.

“But you ask, ‘How have you loved us?’

“Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the Lord. “Yet I have loved Jacob, 3 but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his hill country into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals.”

Esua literally sold his birthright which is a image of us selling our souls for the material matters of this world.

Hebrews 12:16-17
16 See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son. 17 Afterward, as you know, when he wanted to inherit this blessing, he was rejected. Even though he sought the blessing with tears, he could not change what he had done.

The blessing is the image of salvation. Esua rejected God so God by his just nature hates sin.

Also Jacob is a image of Israel and Esua is a image of the Arab nations. Arab people have responded to Jesus for centuries and have been saved.

Pre election is false in this sense. Most Christians teach from Paul's writings that all children who die early go to heaven.

Pre election folks say no not true one may go to Hell. Its nonsense. Out of context and harmony of scripture pre election in absence of free will is not accurate.

To choose is free will. Your basically teaching a that sin only hurts fellowship. But not according to this scholar writer who must of been a teacher and wrote the letter of Hebrews to Jewish Christians and its purpose was to exhort Christians to persevere in the face of persecution. At this time, certain believers were considering turning back to Judaism.

In context still talking to believers

Hebrews 10:19
A Call to Persevere in Faith
19 Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus,

Hebrews 10:26-30
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”

John 15:6
6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

It's summed up by compatibilism.

This concept is evidenced in the betrayal of Joseph's brothers, and the fact that God's will was achieved through this event. Further, it is illustrated in the use of Assyria to punish Israel, yet God punishes Assyria for doing his will in this regard in a very cruel manner. Additionally, it is evidenced in the Cross.

I would also point to many types that were orchestrated by God, including the Exodus, despite the fact that they were enacted by evil men. The Exodus is typological of the Christian liberation from Satan and sin, and was designed by God to reflect such.

God is sovereign, and accomplishes his will, period.

Personally, I find it amusing that individuals believe in libertarian free will, and the power of contrary choice, given how well all of these events are orchestrated by God. Additionally, he says that he will cause the enemies of Israel to leave their land alone while the men attend festivals.

Here's a decent explanation of compatibilism:

https://www.gotquestions.org/compatibilism.html

Since I have no issue with God selectively redeeming people, I can read Scripture in a coherent manner. Those who won't accept God as he is will have problems with it, and attempt to re-cast him into their image. I worship a God who does not fail to accomplish his purposes, and is truly sovereign.

By the way, in regards to charges of "favoritism", my position would be that the verses about God not showing "favoritism" are:

1) references to the Jew/Gentile distinction

2) do not disallow God showing grace to some individuals, whereby passing over other individuals.

The grounds for election, though, are not what I would call "favoritism" because often God chooses those who are least esteemed in man's eyes. I would refer to I Cor 1 in this regard. Not may wise, mighty, noble are chosen.

Additionally, God does love all of mankind in a non-redemptive sense. This is common grace. He does not love all mankind in a redemptive sense. In fact, non-redeemed mankind is under God's wrath and condemnation until they are regenerated and brought to repentance and faith.

One must be able to navigate through the different "loves" of the Bible, and to realize that God does, in fact, hate those who are unredeemed, in a redemptive sense, and his wrath abides on them.

The tendency of some is to conflate the different types of love and to ignore these distinctions. You really can't make sense of the Bible without understanding these different senses.

Yes, I do attend church and listen to preachers for the purpose of refreshing and reviving of the truth of the scriptures that the Holy Spirit has revealed unto me, and also for the purpose of being in fellowship with like minded brothers and sisters.

I hope you are not saying that once you are saved eternally, that you never commit sin thereafter, are you? If you think that we lose our eternal destination when we turn back to sin, then that thought will not harmonize with John 6:38.

I rely upon the understanding of the scriptures by depending upon the Holy Spirit's revelation to guide my thoughts and my mind. and that is called "denying yourself" which, evidently, you do not do.

Could it be that free will is an evolving situation? Much of our life is biologically determined. Breathing happens without conscious effort. However, I may choose to hold my breath, or not. But my choice is limited, because if I hold my breath there will come a point at which the determined biological response will reassert itself over my will to ensure I survive. Much of our thinking is determined by our environment (language, culture and the meanings we are exposed to). Humans uniquely appear to have an ability for self reflection, so we can have some conscious choice over our thought processes, but this is not total. Emotions too motivate us, and there free will is limited. My view is that as we grow in knowledge, experience and consciousness we have more and more freedom. But it is never an absolute freedom, but a relative one. Hope I have been clear. D x

Well regardless of if you think your right there are 3 beliefs on this issue.

Libertarian free will - compatibilism - Hard determinism.

And every Christian from every background has took sides on this issue. I can read scripture just as coherently as you think you can. I can counter any of the restrictive free will beliefs.

I believe Gods will can be done without restricting free will. How? Take Joseph for example. The sins of his brothers put him into slavery. God can work in the bad to bring about the good. God works in us and with us to bring about good for those who abide in him. Joseph listened and lived out the teachings of his youth. God moved in that and inspired that.

Same way the Spirit works in us. We can ignore it, quench it and miss opportunities to learn, grow, or act. But God can also still act in our disobedience as we experience the affects of disobedience we could grow even closer to God or have a powerful testimony that God can work through in others hearts that his Spirit simultaneously is also working in.

God of course can cause Armies to rise up against Israel. Does that restrict anyone's free will? God can protect Israel and kill off its enemies because God is the holder of life. But dealing with choices. The Armies that rose against Israel was pagan sinful Armies. They more than likely wanted to attack Israel for a long time. And because of Israel's disobedience God finally lifted its protection.

John 7:17
17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.

Every generation has had someone willing to do God's will even if it was one man named Noah. Noah chose to do the will of God despite the fallen world around him. God was able to move in that, God inspired that and out of it saved the human race.

Compatibilism is boiled down to determinism and determinism for man means man cannot be held responsible for sin.

Jesus was God in the flesh. Jesus still had free will just as God does. Jesus ultimately said by your will it will be done. Jesus wanted the cup to pass from him but he ultimately chose the Father's will. Even though technically before creation the triune of God predestined that God would sacrifice himself. Technically God chose a plan before time.

If God causally determines everything, we’d have to conclude that the apparent offer to choose between the one true God and pagan gods was insincere. Is God insincere? Surely not!

I think people just fail to understand how can God work in the midst of free will as if he isnt omnipotence, omniscience, and Omnipresence.