Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

Your the one pumping your chest like the pharisee dude not me

you cant even see it

paul said he continued to run yhe race, because he knew he had not yet arrived,

again, i will continue to pray god shows you how sinful you really are and break your pride,

he broke sauls and nicodemus pride and others, he can preak yours too, i have faith

because if you are trying to be justified by works of law you are trying to earn or maintain salvation. like the galatians start in spirit end in flesh.

to keep law of Christ (or strive to do so more realistic) is sanctification not justification. and because your side of camp always mixes these we are up in arms because that.

i love it that God saves us with eternal salvation

It is a commandment. Does that make it a law?



Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with
all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it:
‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Matthew 22:37-41

Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love
one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. Romans 13:8

Thank God you are honest -- you could very well lie and say "yes, I eat my meals in a Sukkah".

The purpose of this thread is to test my interpretation of the differences between Jesus and Paul. I believe that before the cross the Lord Jesus expounded the law of God given to the Hebrews through Moses. After the resurrection, however, the risen Christ used Paul and other apostles to preach salvation by (true) grace through (true) faith, apart from the Mosaic Law.

I will be happy if I am (really) proved wrong because the sooner I abandon a false doctrine the better for myself and for those who hear me.

God forgave me when he said it was finished

i still confess my sins, and bow down at his throne

but as i unconditionally forgive my kids, my heavenly father has forgiven me.

Yes.

Please explain what this means
Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Romans 9:30-32
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;


No matter which way the legalist twists scripture the fact remains that those who WORK at the law are under the curse. Because those who work at the law DO NOT KEEP THE LAW.

Those who work at the law, and attempt to put others under that same yoke, are EXACTLY like the Pharisees of old. They don't attain to what the law says and they ensure that if anyone follows their way they won't attain to it either.


I don't really expect the modern day Pharisee to agree with scripture. If they did, then they wouldn't be a Pharisee to begin with.

So then we must ask the question: Which of these does not "support" or keep the law?;

Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.


And then as a bonus question, Which of these fruit of the Spirit are produced by your work at the law?

Galatians 3:2-3
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?


Is the reader so foolish as to follow the vain janglers, the modern day Pharisees?

Did you know that Peter calls their way the error of the wicked? Growing in Grace and in the Knowledge of the Lord is our solution. Not following a bunch of blind guides.

it means who breaks least of the commandments Jesus said there and teaches others so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven but who does them and teaches others to do them will be called great in the kingdom.

notice they are called least in kingdom, but still in it.

A theocracy means God rules the Civil and Spiritual aspects of a country. A democracy means men have replaced God with a man for the civil, but God still rules our spiritual lives.

Are you inferring that a man is not obliged to the laws of God if they do not live in a theocracy, or ....

I get that, I also want truth and through the years I have realized I am continually learning, I think God for that.

I quoted tis verse before but want to post it again, please consider what Jesus is saying, could we reason upon His words here?

John 14:23-26, " 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. 25 These things have I spoken unto you, being [yet] present with you. 26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy SPirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

In verse 25 He says "These things have I spoken unto you, being [yet] present with you.

SO we know, according to Jesus own words that the words that matter most are the ones He spoke while in the flesh, I would ask how you view this verse?

and in verse 26, Jesus says "the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

The the Holy Spirit will bring THOSE words to memory, so there is not doing away with His teachings while He was in the flesh, I think that is clear, but again I ask your view on this verse?

Also this supports that idea:

Matt 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

Finally I would like to point out there is no seperate doctrine for Jews and Gentiles:

Matthew 28:19-20, “Therefore, as you go, disciple all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you each and every day until the end of the age.”

Acts 1:6-8, " 6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Luke 24:44-49, “44 Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, 47 and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 And behold, I am sending the promise of my Father upon you. But stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”

Marcelo, may we please reason on His words in honesty, please consider His words for what they say. Please do not just go to another verse right away, we can consider all the word indeed, but I ask that we reason togather on is words and seek to understand what they mean. I say this with honesty.

So then breaking "a law" will be forgiven. Once forgiven you are no longer "a breaker of the law". So you don't need to follow perfectly, but you do have to try.
You receive an extra 10 dollars in change, "you say out of "love" you give it back" I say "out of love" I give it back and acknowledge the command of not to steal" Do we both follow the same law? Yes. Do you say it different. Yes. Do we think it different? Yes. In the end is it the same? Yes.

Now let us move past US and move on to the command given us to
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost

" to a "baby" Christian. Over simplified but If you do not teach "don't steal", he keeps the change not knowing he is breaking a command. I teach "God says don't steal is a command of God" ALONG WITH the love we are to walk in.

What happens to the one who only knows to love and walk in love? He walks in love in his own imagination.
What happens to the one who is "taught" Gods commands? He walks in love following and obeying God.

The law of Moses was made for use within the only true theocracy that ever existed. If it is fully applied elsewhere it will conflict with local laws. For example: What country today would permit the killing of adulterers? Only a few Islamic countries, maybe.

No, I'm not inferring that the laws of God are applicable only within the geographical boundaries of a theocratic state. But, as I said above, the Old Covenant laws cannot be fully applied in any country whereas the New Covenant laws can. What country requires citizens to be liars, thieves, slanderers, fornicators, adulterers, etc? What country will prohibit citizens to love one another?

Never said this

please do not put words in my mouh.

you know what i have been saying, sad you even asked,

No, you did not, you are correct. I went back and read it and it did come off that way. That was not my intention. I apologize for the poor communication.

Please let me rephrase. If you break a law and repent is it forgiven? If it is, are you still considered a "law breaker with a sentence of death"?

Hey

i did that almost 40 years ago, when like the tax collector i got on my knees and cries out,

then i became an arrogant christian legalist who tried to live by rules and mocked people who did not, and judged them

then i found true grace, and have been fighting for it ever since because i have seen first hand what phariseeism does not only to a person, but the church. And its not goof.

No, my version of grace owns the fact i am a sinner, who still needs Christ, and now matter what the sin is, or how small i think it is, it is worthy of death. So my eyes are always focused up and not in


your version of whatever you call it lies to yourself saying you obey the law. Says your sin does not stink, and keeps you focused in, not up....

And lest we forget, as we have witnessed in here, claims your sin is not even sin.

As God’s fellow workers we urge you not to receive God’s grace in vain. 2 Corinthians 6:1

For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. Jude 1:4

We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6

Being under the grace of God gives us hope and a chance to live according to the Spirit and His perfect will by dying to our old sinful nature with It's sinful desires.



For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:10

For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. Romans 8:1-17

you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 1 Peter 2:5

Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will. Romans 12:1-2

A person under grace does not nullify the law by their faith, they uphold the law by their faith through the power of the Holy Spirit that is leading and helping them meet the righteous requirements of the law.

But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 2 Corinthians 12:9-10

The Master's word/s is a law to His servants, written on their hearts.

Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and walk in Love.

God is good and His Love endures forever. Amen.

it means who breaks least of the commandments Jesus said there and teaches others so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven but who does them and teaches others to do them will be called great in the kingdom.

notice they are called least in kingdom, but still in it.

Sorry, but I have to log off now and will be back only tomorrow.

I get that, I also want truth and through the years I have realized I am continually learning, I think God for that.

I quoted tis verse before but want to post it again, please consider what Jesus is saying, could we reason upon His words here?

John 14:23-26, " 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. 25 These things have I spoken unto you, being [yet] present with you. 26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy SPirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

In verse 25 He says "These things have I spoken unto you, being [yet] present with you.

SO we know, according to Jesus own words that the words that matter most are the ones He spoke while in the flesh, I would ask how you view this verse?

and in verse 26, Jesus says "the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

The the Holy Spirit will bring THOSE words to memory, so there is not doing away with His teachings while He was in the flesh, I think that is clear, but again I ask your view on this verse?

Also this supports that idea:

Matt 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

Finally I would like to point out there is no seperate doctrine for Jews and Gentiles:

Matthew 28:19-20, “Therefore, as you go, disciple all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you each and every day until the end of the age.”

Acts 1:6-8, " 6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Luke 24:44-49, “44 Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, 47 and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 And behold, I am sending the promise of my Father upon you. But stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”

Marcelo, may we please reason on His words in honesty, please consider His words for what they say. Please do not just go to another verse right away, we can consider all the word indeed, but I ask that we reason togather on is words and seek to understand what they mean. I say this with honesty.

it means who breaks least of the commandments Jesus said there and teaches others so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven but who does them and teaches others to do them will be called great in the kingdom.

notice they are called least in kingdom, but still in it.