Is There Forgiveness and Mercy for the Enemies of God

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Oct 24, 2019
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#1
IN HELL?

Roman 8:7
Because the wisdom of the flesh is an enemy to God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither can it be.

James 4:4
Adulterers, know you not that the friendship of this world is the enemy of God? Whosoever therefore will be a friend of this world, becometh an enemy of God.

Matthew 13:25
But while men were asleep, his enemy came and oversowed cockle among the wheat and went his way.

Matthew 13:28
And he said to them: An enemy hath done this. And the servants said to him: Wilt thou that we go and gather it up?

Matthew 13:39
And the enemy that sowed them, is the devil. But the harvest is the end of the world. And the reapers are the angels.

Matthew 25:30
And the unprofitable servant cast ye out into the exterior darkness. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#2
Until any have come to Christ, Yeshua, in spirit and truth for salvation, we are all enemies of God before turning to Him from the ccreated things of this age.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,615
13,020
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#3
1. Now is the accepted time, and today is the day of salvation.

2. There are no second chances after death.

3. There is no such thing as Annihilation.

4. At the Second Coming of Christ He will first destroy all His enemies.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
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#4
IN HELL?

Roman 8:7
Because the wisdom of the flesh is an enemy to God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither can it be.

James 4:4
Adulterers, know you not that the friendship of this world is the enemy of God? Whosoever therefore will be a friend of this world, becometh an enemy of God.

Matthew 13:25
But while men were asleep, his enemy came and oversowed cockle among the wheat and went his way.

Matthew 13:28
And he said to them: An enemy hath done this. And the servants said to him: Wilt thou that we go and gather it up?

Matthew 13:39
And the enemy that sowed them, is the devil. But the harvest is the end of the world. And the reapers are the angels.

Matthew 25:30
And the unprofitable servant cast ye out into the exterior darkness. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Hell is a living tribulation. The wrath of God being revealed from heaven as death.

Cant suffer after the flesh that has no spirit essence of life. God is not without mercy . Two kinds of mercy. Mercy seasoned with grace and mercy as in never to rise to new spirit life, as Annihilation..

Making hell a suffering after one dies simply makes the gift of a new spirit, new faith without effect.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
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#5
Until any have come to Christ, Yeshua, in spirit and truth for salvation, we are all enemies of God before turning to Him from the ccreated things of this age.
Romans 5:10
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,318
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#8
Perhaps a word study would help you understand, since "hell" is a mistranslation, and Paul never once mentioned it while claiming to have given us the whole counsel of God in Acts 20:27~ I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

2 Thessalonians 1:8-10 “He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among those who have believed.”

Galatians 6:8 says, “The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.” Philippians 1:28 and 3:19 teach that non-Christians will be destroyed. 2 Thessalonians 2:10 says, “They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.” One of the best known and most well loved Scripture attests to the unsaved perishing, as do a plethora of others.



The ungodly will be destroyed, but Christians will be given eternal life. Claiming destroy and perish mean something other than being utterly destroyed or perishing completely is a choice many make. They refuse to take words at face value while reprimanding others for not taking words at face value... which is rather blatantly hypocritical, don't you think? Some will even claim that the soul of man is already immortal which goes completely against what Scripture explicitly states, and there are those too who claim that anything God does lasts forever which also goes against the clear teaching of Scripture.
 
Oct 24, 2019
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#9
2 Peter 2
[1] But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there shall be among you lying teachers, who shall bring in sects of perdition, and deny the Lord who bought them: bringing upon themselves swift destruction. [2] And many shall follow their riotousnesses, through whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. [3] And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you. Whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their perdition slumbereth not. [4] For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but delivered them, drawn down by infernal ropes to the lower hell, unto torments, to be reserved unto judgment: [5] And spared not the original world, but preserved Noe, the eighth person, the preacher of justice, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly.

[6] And reducing the cities of the Sodomites, and of the Gomorrhites, into ashes, condemned them to be overthrown, making them an example to those that should after act wickedly. [7] And delivered just Lot, oppressed by the injustice and lewd conversation of the wicked. [8] For in sight and hearing he was just: dwelling among them, who from day to day vexed the just soul with unjust works. [9] The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly from temptation, but to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be tormented. [10] And especially them who walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government, audacious, self willed, they fear not to bring in sects, blaspheming.

[11] Whereas angels who are greater in strength and power, bring not against themselves a railing judgment. [12] But these men, as irrational beasts, naturally tending to the snare and to destruction, blaspheming those things which they know not, shall perish in their corruption, [13] Receiving the reward of their injustice, counting for a pleasure the delights of a day: stains and spots, sporting themselves to excess, rioting in their feasts with you: [14] Having eyes full of adultery and of sin that ceaseth not: alluring unstable souls, having their heart exercised with covetousness, children of malediction: [15] Leaving the right way they have gone astray, having followed the way of Balaam of Bosor, who loved the wages of iniquity,

[16] But had a check of his madness, the dumb beast used to the yoke, which speaking with man's voice, forbade the folly of the prophet. [17] These are fountains without water, and clouds tossed with whirlwinds, to whom the mist of darkness is reserved. [18] For, speaking proud words of vanity, they allure by the desires of fleshly riotousness, those who for a little while escape, such as converse in error: [19] Promising them liberty, whereas they themselves are the slaves of corruption. For by whom a man is overcome, of the same also he is the slave. [20] For if, flying from the pollutions of the world, through the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they be again entangled in them and overcome: their latter state is become unto them worse than the former.

[21] For it had been better for them not to have known the way of justice, than after they have known it, to turn back from that holy commandment which was delivered to them. [22] For, that of the true proverb has happened to them: The dog is returned to his vomit: and, The sow that was washed, to her wallowing in the mire.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,318
26,345
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#10
2 Peter 2
[1] But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there shall be among you lying teachers, who shall bring in sects of perdition, and deny the Lord who bought them: bringing upon themselves swift destruction. [2] And many shall follow their riotousnesses, through whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. [3] And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you. Whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their perdition slumbereth not. [4] For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but delivered them, drawn down by infernal ropes to the lower hell, unto torments, to be reserved unto judgment: [5] And spared not the original world, but preserved Noe, the eighth person, the preacher of justice, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly.

[6] And reducing the cities of the Sodomites, and of the Gomorrhites, into ashes, condemned them to be overthrown, making them an example to those that should after act wickedly. [7] And delivered just Lot, oppressed by the injustice and lewd conversation of the wicked. [8] For in sight and hearing he was just: dwelling among them, who from day to day vexed the just soul with unjust works. [9] The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly from temptation, but to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be tormented. [10] And especially them who walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government, audacious, self willed, they fear not to bring in sects, blaspheming.

[11] Whereas angels who are greater in strength and power, bring not against themselves a railing judgment. [12] But these men, as irrational beasts, naturally tending to the snare and to destruction, blaspheming those things which they know not, shall perish in their corruption, [13] Receiving the reward of their injustice, counting for a pleasure the delights of a day: stains and spots, sporting themselves to excess, rioting in their feasts with you: [14] Having eyes full of adultery and of sin that ceaseth not: alluring unstable souls, having their heart exercised with covetousness, children of malediction: [15] Leaving the right way they have gone astray, having followed the way of Balaam of Bosor, who loved the wages of iniquity,

[16] But had a check of his madness, the dumb beast used to the yoke, which speaking with man's voice, forbade the folly of the prophet. [17] These are fountains without water, and clouds tossed with whirlwinds, to whom the mist of darkness is reserved. [18] For, speaking proud words of vanity, they allure by the desires of fleshly riotousness, those who for a little while escape, such as converse in error: [19] Promising them liberty, whereas they themselves are the slaves of corruption. For by whom a man is overcome, of the same also he is the slave. [20] For if, flying from the pollutions of the world, through the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they be again entangled in them and overcome: their latter state is become unto them worse than the former.

[21] For it had been better for them not to have known the way of justice, than after they have known it, to turn back from that holy commandment which was delivered to them. [22] For, that of the true proverb has happened to them: The dog is returned to his vomit: and, The sow that was washed, to her wallowing in the mire.
Yes, even Peter teaches destruction of the wicked, and them perishing. I hope you realize, too, that the use of the word "hell" in 2 Peter 2:4 is also a mistranslation, for the word should be Tartarus. It is the only place in Scripture that word is used, and relates ONLY to rebellious angels.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,791
13,422
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#11
Hell is a living tribulation. The wrath of God being revealed from heaven as death.

Cant suffer after the flesh that has no spirit essence of life. God is not without mercy . Two kinds of mercy. Mercy seasoned with grace and mercy as in never to rise to new spirit life, as Annihilation..

Making hell a suffering after one dies simply makes the gift of a new spirit, new faith without effect.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
It would really help if you learned how to write in English. The above is meaningless word salad. Take a class.
 

DB7

Junior Member
Dec 29, 2014
283
138
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#12
Hi JadenS, to answer your initial question, which, by the way, is a little ambiguous, yes, the 'Enemies of God' can be saved, ...provided that they become 'Friends of God' before they die. For Paul was once an enemy of God, 'the worst of the sinners' who persecuted Christians. But God showed mercy to him, revealing to us that all can be saved (1 Tim. 1:15-16).

But, to your 'other' question, annihilation or eternal punishment, ...i sometimes prefer the idea of annihilation (seems more merciful), but i personally feel the scriptures in favour of eternal punishment outweigh annihilation. Jesus constantly spoke of perpetual 'weeping and gnashing of teeth', and 'where the flame never goes out'. To me 'perishing' and 'destruction' are figurative for the eternal demolition of the life that was offered to them, not their souls.

My understanding of hell is like this, the fire is analogous to Paul stating that treating evil people with kindness, is like putting burning coals on their heads, it's figurative, it's their conscience that is burning. Hell is the same, the guilty are punishing themselves by their regretful conscience, for they forsook the grace that was so easy to attain. All they had to do was say 'sorry', and 'thank you'. Repentance and forgiveness. They will be weeping and gnashing their teeth for the crimes that they committed against God's children, but God will not be stoking the fire, their consciences will not let them be at peace, when they witness on Judgement day the glory for God's people that they showed nothing but contempt and indignation towards..
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,248
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#13
Ephesians speaks extensively on how we were one time walking in darkness serving the flesh and not God. It also speaks of our having been enemies of God but now are made fellow heirs with Israel to the Kingdom.

Ephesians also touches upon how we were children of disobedience but now are made children of obedience. I am not good at numbering what I post, but I do understand what I post.

In full reality the entire Bible teaches us the same. god bless you and if you wish, give me the numbers onthe post. God bless youalways...j
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,001
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#14
Wondering how there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth if the person is annihilated....
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#15
Wondering how there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth if the person is annihilated....
Amen.....I still love how they have Jesus using an imaginary place that does not exist and deceit to teach truth in Luke 16.........and make no mistake, this is exactly what they do!
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#16
Wondering how there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth if the person is annihilated....

Good question.

A couple of verses to look at.

Ecclesiastes 12:Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. (the breath of life.)

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

In that way nothing moves nothing. Cause and affect.

There can be no gnashing of ones teeth when they have no spirit essence that could direct and empower the body to move.

Anger towards the will of God. . . Hell is a living suffering.

James says that man's anger cannot bring on the imputed righteousness of Christ. We do deny him in unbelief . . but he cannot deny us if he has provided all the suffering needed . He declared it is finished.

Jonas is used with the Son of man, Jesus. They are used as comparisons (parables) Jonas denied the will of God. The last sign as a wonder fulfilled in the coming of the Son of man, Jesus.

Jonah 2:1-2 King James Version (KJV) Then Jonah prayed unto the Lord his God out of the fish's belly, And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice. For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me

Moving Jonas according to the unseen will that worked in Jonas to both will and do the good pleasure, ended . And Jonas' heart again became hard not mixing faith in what he did hear. . I would say as Hebrews 4 declares today (timeless) if we hear his voice harden not ones heart .

Jonah 4: 1-3 King James Version (KJV) But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was very angry. And he prayed unto the Lord, and said, I pray thee, O Lord, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil. Therefore now, O Lord, take, I beseech thee, my life from me; for it is better for me to die than to live.

Do be like the murmurers signified by Jonas. Rejoice that we are yoked with Christ he can make the load lighter. In Hebrew 6 he informs us of the better things of salvation. He will not forget the good works we offer toward his name. like with the parable of the laborers we all agreed on the same amount .One penny.

Like with Jonas' work of suffering. . a living hell . Anger (gnashing of teeth) does not help you live the way God wants.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings: Philipians 2:13-14
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,791
13,422
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#17
Jonas is used with the Son of man, Jesus. They are used as comparisons (parables) Jonas denied the will of God. The last sign as a wonder fulfilled in the coming of the Son of man, Jesus.
Comparisons are not parables.
 
Sep 29, 2019
394
170
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#18
IN HELL?

Roman 8:7
Because the wisdom of the flesh is an enemy to God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither can it be.

James 4:4
Adulterers, know you not that the friendship of this world is the enemy of God? Whosoever therefore will be a friend of this world, becometh an enemy of God.

Matthew 13:25
But while men were asleep, his enemy came and oversowed cockle among the wheat and went his way.

Matthew 13:28
And he said to them: An enemy hath done this. And the servants said to him: Wilt thou that we go and gather it up?

Matthew 13:39
And the enemy that sowed them, is the devil. But the harvest is the end of the world. And the reapers are the angels.

Matthew 25:30
And the unprofitable servant cast ye out into the exterior darkness. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
"Father, forgive them. For they know not what they do"
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
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#19
Amen.....I still love how they have Jesus using an imaginary place that does not exist and deceit to teach truth in Luke 16.........and make no mistake, this is exactly what they do!
And the literalist it would seem does not search for the gospel understanding hid in the parables.. as contest. Some would call it cherry picking.

The place is not imaginary one but rather one seen by faith according to the unseen eternal understanding.

In a series of parables beginning in the previous chapter 15 That some how the idea of out of no where he sneaks in a literal interpretation it seems out of place..

Rightly dividing the word of God (sola scriptura) by which he can believe is the context of the whole discourse .

Verse 13. No man can serve two teaching masters as the things of God not seen, and the temporal things of mankind seen . The faithless Pharisees' mocked Jesus according to a law of their fathers.. oral traditions of men.

He declared if they do not believe the law and prophets. . the two witness of God.(sola scriptura ) It would be easier to make every thing the eyes see disappear. Sola scriptura is the reforming, restoring authority in any generation.

The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail. Luke 16: 16-17

The dialog concerning no man can serve two teaching masters both walking after the things of men seen and that of God the eternal not seen continues . .. Showing it is impossible to seek after God any other way. . . . "That they which would pass from here to you cannot; neither can they pass to us'. No seeking after disembodied worker witha famailar spirit as did Saul in the Old testament. . an abomination. It was what the Rich man was hoping to do.

Not after necromancy seeking the dead to do the work of the living shown by desiring he sent Lazarus

And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. (sola scriptura) And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, (sola scriptura) neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. Luke 16: 26-31

Jesus arose and still they remined faithlesss.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#20
And the literalist it would seem does not search for the gospel understanding hid in the parables.. as contest. Some would call it cherry picking.

The place is not imaginary one but rather one seen by faith according to the unseen eternal understanding.

In a series of parables beginning in the previous chapter 15 That some how the idea of out of no where he sneaks in a literal interpretation it seems out of place..

Rightly dividing the word of God (sola scriptura) by which he can believe is the context of the whole discourse .

Verse 13. No man can serve two teaching masters as the things of God not seen, and the temporal things of mankind seen . The faithless Pharisees' mocked Jesus according to a law of their fathers.. oral traditions of men.

He declared if they do not believe the law and prophets. . the two witness of God.(sola scriptura ) It would be easier to make every thing the eyes see disappear. Sola scriptura is the reforming, restoring authority in any generation.

The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail. Luke 16: 16-17

The dialog concerning no man can serve two teaching masters both walking after the things of men seen and that of God the eternal not seen continues . .. Showing it is impossible to seek after God any other way. . . . "That they which would pass from here to you cannot; neither can they pass to us'. No seeking after disembodied worker witha famailar spirit as did Saul in the Old testament. . an abomination. It was what the Rich man was hoping to do.

Not after necromancy seeking the dead to do the work of the living shown by desiring he sent Lazarus

And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. (sola scriptura) And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, (sola scriptura) neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. Luke 16: 26-31

Jesus arose and still they remined faithlesss.
And he spake unto them in a parable <--- show me that before the ACCOUNT of the rich man and Lazarus.....I will wait!

and to say that we cannot take the word of God literally is idiotic!