Was Adam Made Holy

Yes just as the Son of God was in a lower position than the Father when he said the Father of greater. It did not make him not equal with the father. Position not persons.

The hair covering woman and non covering for the man is all about positions.

speculation?

why does God speak to Adam, not Woman, when He comes to the garden & they are hiding?
why does He interrogate Adam before Woman?
why does Adam change her name to Eve, but Eve not change Adam's name?
why does 1 Corinthians 11:3 say the head of the woman is man? in Hebrew, "Adam" means "man" and "the woman" is Eve's former name. does Paul know this when he writes a letter in Greek? does God know this when He puts that in His scripture?

other examples:


this doesn't indicate proximity in space or time. it indicates sharing an attribute: death, and life


this doesn't indicate proximity in space or time of the beginning of Adam & Woman. it indicates sharing a common attribute: their relationship with each other

Genesis 2:25 - Genesis 3:1
how much time elapses between these verses?

Genesis 2:8-2:9
4 event recounted in two verses. how much time passes between each? are the events even listed in chronological order?
Genesis 2:15 repeats one of the events in 2:8 - does time pass in verses 9-14?

Genesis 1:1- 1:2
how much time passes between the first two statements in the Bible?

Genesis 4:7-8
how much time passes between these two verses?

it is not uncommon for the Bible to omit periods of time between consecutive things being recorded - hours, days, even thousands of years - just as it's not uncommon for recurrence to be employed; stating the same narrative or giving the same principles multiple times from different perspectives or highlighting different key elements of it - as Genesis 1 compared with Genesis 2; not two separate creations of the cosmos, but 1, given twice in a row.
which is to say, Genesis 3:6 as it is written is not at all definitive in placing Adam side-by-side with Eve when she is lied to, tempted & deceived, and drawn away by her desires into eating. "with" indicates mutual participation, but not necessarily simultaneity. "and" indicates sequence but not necessarily immediacy. James 4:17, Ezekiel 33:6, Leviticus 19:17, Luke 17:3, Psalm 94:16 etc indicate that if Adam was present, undeceived, watching Woman sin without raising his voice, that would be sin for him - but this is never charged against him. there is much weight to the argument that he was not present there, and there is only an ambiguity in the language to support that he was.
what you keep presenting as tho 'conclusive' is not at all conclusive.

if you are calling Satan 'not a real being' but only a 'code word' for our own personal, sinful nature, then it raises the question about Judas of whom it is said, "Satan entered him" when he left the meal in the upper room, did Judas have no sinful nature before Satan 'entered' him?

I disagree; I don't believe that the relationship between Jesus and the Father is represented by or indicative of the exemplary of between Adam and Eve.

I disagree; I don't see any connection between those two ideas. I think you're arguing from the assumption that men are positionally superior rather than building that view from the Scriptures.

Those are good questions. I would have to do some research into the Hebrew of Genesis 3 to answer them adequately.

posthuman said:

why does 1 Corinthians 11:3 say the head of the woman is man?

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This is a curious one. Some have suggested that the word kephale ("head") can mean "source" (or "origin"); this is supported by verses 11 and 12, though the rest of the passage seem to mean either brain bucket or authority. "Woman" and "man" are singular in this verse, which suggests the marital relationship, not all males and all females. Pointing back to Genesis 3, it is plausible that the connection is one of role, but I would resist the meaning of authority without seeing some much stronger evidence.

posthuman said:

in Hebrew, "Adam" means "man" and "the woman" is Eve's former name. does Paul know this when he writes a letter in Greek? does God know this when He puts that in His scripture?

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Of course they knew these things.

Yes, but that is not what Garee was asserting.

I don't believe that the order of creation, by itself, conveys any authority or preeminence (Paul's reference to the creation order in his letter to Timothy counters the belief of a false religion). What I can agree with is that God gave the information and command to Adam, and therefore held Adam accountable. God also had a relationship with Adam prior to making Eve, and as such may have chosen to communicate with him first on that basis; that however is speculative.

I think that much of the confusion on this issue goes straight back to the word "helpmeet". I see it written "helpmate" often, and that is how most people seem to interpret it; as a subordinate or inferior role. The Hebrew term doesn't mean that at all, and is used of God Himself elsewhere in Scripture.

Further, I believe that the vast majority of inter-gender dynamics are a direct result of the fall. Genesis 3:16 supports this; the man will rule over the woman. That's a statement of certain consequence, not God's desire or command.

Regarding Christ and His Church, I think we need to be cautious not to assume that the type perfectly represents the referent, or that the referent perfectly embodies the type.

Mankind men and woman as one creation. God preparing for his eternal bride when two literal will become one new creation.

Two working together in mutual submission and perfect harmony to one another was the design as made in the image of God. .

Mankind men and woman as one represent the government as the peace of God. . . working as a father and Son .The father as the loving authority the greater did not lord it over the Son .Thre times during the three day demonstration their relationship was challenged

As a living sacrifice .No dead sacrifices.

Jesus suffered unto death a living hell in his agony of the pouring of the wrath of the father. . he cried out, the father submitted and sent him spirit life all three times needed to finish the work of God.. Three denoting the end of a matter. We have a parallel parable using Jonas suffering the living pangs of hell. The last sign as a wonder given.


Sorry. . . .Not superior. Position not person. Just in a greater place with a greater responsibility. The goal to strengthen the bride is represented by the beautiful woman both inward and out.. The man represents the unseen head Christ, our husband. In many cases they take that literally and put the burden on the bride. Absentee fathers and husbands is becoming the new fad. The need for the care of the widows and fatherless is on the rise.

James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

It would seem the church is hiding the privilege as a representative glory of the new ceremonial law "glory covering" and part of that ...celebrating the up coming wedding supper in the new order, the bread and blood of grapes..

My wife is like the prophetess Deborah hoping for a strong love of her savior to communicate .At times that role is switched to show no difference in the working of the Holy Spirit. .God is not served by human hands in any way shape or form. He moves men by working in them ..always in need of prayer and the gospel .

Your statements are mutually contradictory.

You are conflating unrelated concepts. A woman whose husband died or abandoned her is a "widow" and worthy of the church's support if her family is unable to help her. A woman who slept around and had kids by men to whom she wasn't married is not, nor is a woman who abandoned her husband. Her kids are unfortunate victims, but she needs to step up and own her responsibility, not dump it on the church. Such cases aren't "putting the burden on the bride".

PS said:

If eve was not born with a disobedient nature, then she soon developed one.

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What was the cause of Eve having "soon developed" a "disobedient nature"?

In reading through the discussion, it seems to me that you believe Eve eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil was a result of her own thoughts ... not because there was an outside influence (satan) whereby she was deceived.

That is why I asked if you believe God has an adversary. It is unclear to me whether you are aware of the adversary (the devil, aka satan).

You say "yes, God has an adversary" and then you clarify your answer by stating:


Some people believe in God but do not believe there is a devil (aka satan) ... they believe satan is nothing more than the selfish will of man/woman which chafes against God.

I believe in God and I also believe there is an adversary who opposes God. The adversary is subordinate to God and will never overpower God. The adversary knows he is inferior in every respect and there is nothing he can do to injure God or be superior to God. That is why satan is so focused on mankind. He can do nothing to God, nor to the angels who did not follow satan in his folly. satan tries to get us to turn away from God and once we turn, he swipes at us. It worked with Eve. Adam then joined Eve. satan tried with the Lord Jesus Christ (Matt 4) but was unsuccessful. God has given us everything we need to overcome and, hopefully, we follow the example of the Lord Jesus Christ, resist the devil, and he eventually leaves.

Does God want emotionless robots who do exactly as he wants, or does He want us to love Him of our own freewill, because that is how he made us with the ability to choose our destiny for ourselves. I chose Christ, and I am glad I did while eve chose instant gratification and never mind the consequences. Live for today and never mind tomorrow, but let us have a good time together, so she took Adam along with her. Thankfully we have the freewill to make our own choice for God, the saints did, so did the disciples and many more. It is good to be on the winning team and choosing Christ is the best decision we can ever make.

i don't see how 'nevermind the consequences' / 'nevermind tomorrow' is congruent with the fact that she was deceived..?
when she looked at the fruit and ate it she did it exactly because she wanted the consequences - what she thought the consequences would be, at the time.
this is not at all about her saying 'who cares about the consequences' - the scripture is clear; she was lied to about the consequences, and deceived, and what she did was in order to bring about the consequences she had been deceived about. then her eyes were opened; she knew she had been deceived, and being naked = shame not hidden/covered, she was afraid.

First, Adam was a man and as a man he had the things true about him that are true of all men. Adam was just like you and me. There was one Law don”t eat the knowledge of good and evil. When Adam ate it he became fallen man. This did not mean Adam had never sinned before the Fall because he had. Scripture tells where there is no Law sin is not taken into account. Of course this means man sins and doesn’t know he sinned without the Law defining sin for us. When this happened Adam and Eve ate the knowledge and the Law opened their eyes showing them with uncovered, naked, sins.that is why the tried covering the sins. Now the Lord had two lost sheep and that brought Him as the Good Shepherd and He called His sheep they responded (Jn: 10) the Lord then performed the Good news by slaying the Innocent and taking the skin with the shed blood and making clothes for them, a picture of our being covered by His righteousness. We learn what kind of animal the Innocent is fromAbel’s offering the Lamb.all of this is the first revelation of the Gospel, the Good News of Jesus Christ.

You are confusing the decision to choose Christ with the Christian walk/ life

The verse in The Book of Genesis chapter three does indicate proximity. That is what I was addressing. Adam's proximity to Eve. Adam was with Eve when the serpent was encountered in the forbidden tree.

Adam was not said to be the head of the woman until the fall.
The Book of Genesis chapter 3
To the woman he said, “I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire hall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.”

Adam and Eve were one flesh, being "married".
The Book of Genesis chapter 2: 24"Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh."

Source:The Hebrew word for man is Adamah.
By examining a few other words derived from the child root אדם we can see a common meaning in them all. The Hebrew word אדמה (adamah) is the feminine form of אדם meaning "ground" (see Genesis 2:7). The word/name אדום (Edom) means "red". Each of these words has the common meaning of "red". Dam is the "red" blood, adamah is the "red" ground, edom is the color "red" and adam is the "red" man. There is one other connection between adam and adamah as seen in Genesis 2:7 which states that "the adam" was formed out of the adamah.

Entry for Strong's #2332 -
"Eve"=Gesenius' Hebrew and Chaldee Definition
חַוָּה i.q. חַיָּה (from the root חָוָה = חָיָה, comp. הַוָּה and הַיָּה), f.
(1) life. Hence [Eve], pr.n. of the first woman, as being the mother of all living (אֵם כָּל־חַי), Genesis 3:20, 4:1. LXX. Εὔα (comp. חִוִּי, Εὐαῖος ). Vulg. Heva.
(2) i.q. חַיָּה No. 2, Arab. حَىُّ a family, a tribe, especially of Nomades, hence a village of Nomades, a village [“prop. place where one lives, dwells, so Germ. leben in pr.n. Eisleben, Afchersleben”], (as on the contrary אֹהֶל, أَهْلُ properly a tent, hence a family, men), Numbers 32:41; Deuteronomy 3:14; Joshua 13:30; Judges 10:4; 1 Kings 4:13. Another etymology has commonly been sought from Arab. حوى to collect, to gather together, V. to roll oneself in a circle; which is altogether needless.

List of Word Forms
חַוָּ֑ה חַוָּ֣ה חוה chavVah ḥaw·wāh ḥawwāh





After their fall, the woman was named Eve, mother of all living, by Adam. But before this she was called woman. The change in name was due to the change in identity. Now, after the fall, Adam and Eve knew both good and evil, as God did. And when God cursed the woman saying she would suffer pain in childbirth, that was what made her mother of all living. She was the first woman who would give life to human life on earth.

Woman, ishshah in Hebrew.
The woman was already female and wife to Adam, after the fall she was going to bear children, so naturally her name, identity, would be that of Eve.

I am speaking of no other verse than that which is in the Book of Genesis chapter 3. And it is clear, Adam was with her because the scripture tells us this. It doesn't say, after the woman ate of the fruit she sought her mate and bid him to eat also.

English Standard Version: 6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise,[b] she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate.

Young's Literal Translation: 6 And the woman seeth that the tree [is] good for food, and that it [is] pleasant to the eyes, and the tree is desirable to make [one] wise, and she taketh of its fruit and eateth, and giveth also to her husband with her, and he doth eat;

King James Version: 6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Butterflyyy said:

You are confusing the decision to choose Christ with the Christian walk/ life

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No, I am asking PS if he believes God has an adversary (aka satan, aka the devil). I am uncertain whether he believes that satan exists and that it was satan who deceived Eve and who seeks to devour us in our day and time. PS has stated:



On the one hand, PS says "satan is the adversary"

On the other hand, PS says "the serpent in the woodpile were her own disobedient thoughts", "if eve was not born with a disobedient nature, then she soon developed one" as if satan did not deceive Eve.

Some people do not believe there is an adversary ... the devil ... satan. Scripture plainly tells us the devil does exist and he relentlessly attacks every good thing God designed for mankind. If we do not believe satan exists, and we think everything satan does to ensnare us is inherent within ourselves, we do not watch out for the bait satan uses to ensnare us.


I am glad and thankful that PS follows the Lord Jesus Christ ... the only way we have to overcome and become victorious over everything satan throws at us is by abiding in the Lord Jesus Christ.