Which gospel?

The CONTEXT of this Hebrews 12 verse...

"7 Endure suffering as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father? 8 If you do not experience discipline like everyone else, then you are illegitimate children and not true sons.…"



["discipline" is for one's OWN CHILDREN]

In reference to the OP.

I think it sums it up nicely.

Praise the Lord Jesus Christ for what He has done in my life. I thank Him for redeeming me by His blood, freeing me from captivity. He is our Passover Lamb and He has become my Lord. No longer enslaved by Satan I have become a slave to God and the benefit I reap leads to holiness the result of which is eternal life. In Him now I live and move and have my being. Now, the Lord really is my Shepherd. Only a modern Pharisee with a heart of stone would hate what He has done in my life. The world just thinks we're strange. Only certain groups of Christian's actually hate us. Jesus said it would be this way. As He commanded, so shall I rejoice!! Blessed be Thy holy name!

Well by your own words you are not even secure in what He has done?

Don't fail to read vv.10 and 14, in this ^ verse's CONTEXT, in order to understand that verse aright:


[quoting Wm Kelly]

"There meanwhile He sits [presently seated at the right hand of the Father], having done and suffered all for His friends, once His foes but now believing in Him. And the reason assigned for His continuous seat there is full of blessing for us: "For by one offering hath he perfected [PERFECT tense] continuously the sanctified."* [v.14]

"* It is singular that any believer should fail to see that τοὺò ἁãéáæïìέíïõς here [v.14] must be "the sanctified" as a class apart from time, because the same persons are in ver. 10 declared to be already ἡãéáóìέíïι ["having been sanctified" - PERFECT tense]. For this means that they were now sanctified, and therefore not a process going on. Both could not be true if ἁãéáæïìέíïõς were taken in its temporal usage. But they are both true without doubt all the same where the abstract force of the present is seen, as every scholar ought to know.

"It is not enough then to assure the Christian that he has been sanctified [PERFECT tense] or set apart by Christ's effectual offering once for all, though this surely is immense in itself. By the same one offering has He perfected [PERFECT tense] in perpetuity the sanctified. [...<snip>...] Perfected Himself as risen and glorified, He has perfected [PERFECT tense] those set apart to God. Both the perfecting here and the sanctification in verse 10 are completed actions, the effect of which does not pass away. They err who teach that either is a process going on. Both are blessed effects of Christ's offering, to which nothing can be added for their end. Nor is this at all weakened, as some argue, from the form of "the sanctified" in verse 14; because this expresses the class in an abstract way, not at all as to time: if it did, it would contradict the form of the statement in verse 10, which does express time, and declares that we enjoy the settled result of God's having thus set us apart ["having been sanctified" - PERFECT tense]. Such a contradiction is not, and could not be, in the inspired word. Our bodies of course await the glorious change at Christ's coming again."

--William Kelly, Commentary on Hebrews 10 [source: BibleHub; bold mine; bracketed inserts mine]

[end quoting Wm Kelly]

____________

Perfect Tense -

"ACTION COMPLETED at a SPECIFIC POINT of TIME in PAST (●) with results CONTINUING into the PRESENT (▬►). In certain contexts the results are PERMANENT."

Exactly!!

I know you don't have to obey Him or take any of His warnings to us seriously, but I do. I remember His Word regarding those who will not accept our testimony about Him. I need to do what He said. There's no problem. Arguing and being insulting - not likely His will. As it's only those who do the will of the Father in Heaven that will enter Heaven, that needs to be my concern. Sincerely, in the name of Jesus Christ.

I know that many people think that the word "lukewarm" in Revelation 3:16 means something like "lazy Christians," "milquetoast Christians," "so-so [not-so-good/not-as-good-as-other-]Christians," "spineless Christians," etc... No.

[recall my Q of you earlier... do you believe those in 1Cor3:1-4 are "believers"/"saints"/"SAVED"??]

Recall, the two chpts (Rev2-3) are addressed [overall] especially to "the churchES," which is NOT the same thing as saying "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY".

"the churchES" are made up of both believers AND those who come in His name but who are not actually vitally-connected with HIM/CHRIST (that is, they are NOT SAVED)... whereas "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" consists ONLY of "believers" (those who have trusted in Christ and His finished work, alone, for salvation--thus are vitally connected with HIM/CHRIST [these ARE SAVED]).

So grasping the overall context (of Rev2-3, to "the churchES"),... the "lukewarm" are those NOT vitally-connected with Christ (they ARE NOT SAVED PERSONS). The passage shows us that both "hot" and "cold" are favorable/"positive" things from God's perspective (reflective of water-flows which are connected to a SOURCE); "lukewarm" is the sole "negative" (reflective of water NOT connected with a SOURCE... think of drinking: mud-puddle... BLEH!!!)


____________

As for the epistle to the Hebrews (and its overall context), consider the following post I made in the past, quoting a good article by a writer from the late 1800s:


"Perfection; Where Is It? and What Is It?" by Charles Stanley [1821-1890; (not the one today in GA! ) ]

https://bibletruthpublishers.com/pe...t/charles-stanley/pamphlets/c-stanley/la61576

[quoting from article]

" “Let us go on to perfection.” This whole epistle to the Hebrews is on this subject. The going on from that which made nothing perfect, to that which forever perfects.
[...]
"The perfect one is first set before us. Yes, God’s way is very simple. The law made nothing perfect; all perfection is found in Christ, the perfect one. Thus God begins. In Hebrews 1 the glories of the perfect one, the Son of God, shine forth. God had borne with the church at Jerusalem in tender grace. He knew how hard it was for them to give up all that was visible. The glorious temple in which they still worshipped its sacrifices and ritual; its ancient priesthood; what a power all this had; and then the reign of their Messiah postponed (Acts 3:19-21) — I say, all that glorious reign postponed; for a time every earthly promise set aside. And then we should remember, the worship of the early church was purely spiritual. No place of worship on earth; no separate priesthood; positively nothing for the natural eye to rest upon: even Jesus was gone up to heaven. And more, the Roman armies were now soon to come, and utterly destroy the temple, trample under foot the city of Jerusalem, and after fearful slaughter of the rejecting Jews, the remnant were to be scattered amongst all nations. All this was present to the mind of God. Now was it not most tender and gracious of our God to give them this very epistle, to draw them from the shadows to Christ?
"The destruction of Jerusalem was near, they knew it not; but God knew it. [...]"
____________

[…(cont)...]

"But what is this in Hebrews 12 — THE RACE? The race, that which man puts at the beginning of his books on perfection, God puts at the end. This is very striking. In all the books I have read on perfection, there is the race, sometimes long, and sometimes short, but the race first, and perfection at the end of the race, the race to get it. Just so. Now note this contrast: we have ten chapters, to show out the perfections of Christ; and how we are forever perfected by His work; then another chapter to show the immense importance of believing this — then comes the practical race. God’s way is right; all other ways are wrong. Now if you have been traveling after holiness the wrong way, backwards, is there any wonder you should have been so disappointed?
"Now for the race. This must be run with patience -not an impatient leap of faith. Israel did not leap into Canaan. No, there must be, mind, not the eye on one another; but the eye on Jesus. Oh what patient endurance! Consider Him — looking off everything else, to Jesus."

--Charles Stanley [1821-1890]; Bible Truth Publishers

[more at link, above]

[end quoting]

You rather follow this prescription for salvation instead of 1 Cor 15:1-4 now?

All sinners among my people will die by the sword; all those who say disaster will never meet or come upon us. And surely God will crush the heads of His enemies, the hairy crowns of those who go one in their sins. Psalm 15 shows us who will dwell in God's presence and the effect of God's grace in our lives. One of the points of our Passover being sacrificed was so that the Word of God would be on our lips. Growing up as a good modern Christian, these Scriptures meant nothing to me. I had my theological idols I bowed down to based on my 24 page Bible, as we see many doing here. God keeps His covenant of love with those who love Him and obey His commands. There's another Scripture my Antichrist made void when I was growing up. Spiritual warfare is alive and well. So many Christians drank the Kool-Aid flowing from the seminaries and theologians and commentators quoted here. Jesus has been so good to me and my family. We have worked for the food that does not perish, just as the Jesus commanded. His food is to do the will of Him who sent Him and to finish His work. We live by Him just as He lived by the Father. Lazarus died. Jesus didn't move until the Father said to. What a living, moment by moment relationship we have with Him through the Holy Spirit, bringing Him glory which we could not do before when we were our own heads. Why do modern Pharisees never testify? They gnash their teeth in hatred very well though.

Two things, regarding the above ^ :

1) "arguing and being insulting" can sometimes be subjective (I mean, some try to accuse Jesus of this, in viewing His words in Matthew 23... but we don't wanna go there, like the mockers do, do we?) Besides, judging from merely ppl's outward actions is not always a good barometer of "truth," coz there are lots of ppl (who don't love Jesus, who don't love God) who, by outward appearances can seem like they do an awful lot of "good deeds"... So just be careful of that, because of what 2Cor11:14 tells us about things like that: "And no wonder [<--this phrase is concerning what was said in the previous v.13], for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light." [see then v.15 also]. Appearances can be deceiving; and

2) if you are talking about what is said in Matthew 7:21, the phrase in that verse is: "...[not...] shall enter into the kingdom OF THE heavenS" (not saying "[up in] Heaven"... THAT "Heaven," but this is INSTEAD referring to "the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom" [promised especially to Israel, per the OT prophecies], and which will commence upon His "RETURN" to the earth [not at our Rapture, per context])


God bless all readers.

It would have been fascinating to hear trying to correct Jesus during His Earthly ministry had you been a Jewish Scribe 2000 years ago.

What, may I ask, is this ^ in reference to? My saying that "the kingdom OF THE heavenS" is not [what we call] "UP IN Heaven"?? do you mean that part of my comment?


[ https://biblehub.com/text/matthew/7-21.htm - every mention of "the kingdom OF THE heavenS" is phrased just this way (ALL mentions of this!)... not sure that is what your response is in reference to, tho]

Just watched about 10 minutes of one of his born again children of God can lose their salvation and have their Heavenly Father toss them into Hell videos.

He used the 10 virgins parable to prove you could lose your salvation, and actually said that all 10 virgins had the Holy Spirit in them, but 5 just didn’t have enough!!!

I mean it would be beyond laughable if it wasn’t so sad.

They ran out of Holy Spirit like a guy forgetting to fill his Hummer before a long trip!

Agree... tragic to understand scripture so poorly and then put it out there for others to be fooled by.

The phrase 'read in context' is nowadays used when one wants to change the meaning to fit a particular doctrine.

Vs 36 is clear even on its own, you must persevere in doing the will of God and then after doing, you'll get God's promises.
No other verses, in context or out of context will change the meaning of vs 36 to teach that one gets God's promises first by thinking hard about Jesus and then does the will of God.

Correct but it says later on, righteousness. Not righteousness first and later on perseverance. It is same as:

Rom 6:16Do you not know that when you offer yourselves as obedient slaves, you are slaves to the one you obey, whether you are slaves to sin leading to death, or to obedience leading to righteousness?

or
Matthew 10:22You will be hated by everyone on account of My name, but the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.

or
Luke 21:19By your patient endurance, you will gain your souls.

And, we are all children of the most high because we were all created by Him:

Acts 17:
26From one manc He made every nation of men, to inhabit the whole earth; and He determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their lands.

27God intended that they would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. 28‘For in Him we live and move and have our being.’d As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are His offspring.’e 29Therefore, being offspring of God, we should not think that the Divine Being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by man’s skill and imagination.

But believing is not sitting in a couch and thinking hard about Jesus and what He did, believing is doing. Twice in the NT it has been said that only doers of the word are the ones that are considered righteous.

Do not be shallow like the Jews who wanted Jesus to declare that He was the Messiah so that they can believe yet Jesus told them His works had already declared. So if the Jews also had worked in love towards Jesus, they it would have been said that they believe Jesus but the works of hate towards Jesus showed their unbelief:

John 10:
22At that time the Feast of Dedicationb took place in Jerusalem. It was winter, 23and Jesus was walking in the temple courtsc in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24So the Jews gathered around Him and demanded, “How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”

25“I already told you,” Jesus replied, “but you did not believe. The works I do in My Father’s name testify on My behalf. 26But because you are not My sheep, you refuse to believe. 27My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me. 28I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand. 29My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

31At this, the Jews again picked up stones to stone Him. 32But Jesus responded, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone Me?”

It is the works that tell the story and not thoughts or proclamations. Belief is also works and not proclamations.

While I agree with this definition of the perfect, it is only true in the Indicative. There is no time in the Subjunctive, imperative, etc.

"Aspect" is more important in Koine Greek, than time. In other words, how you are viewing it. The Aorist tense is more like sitting on the sidewalk watching the parade go by. Whereas the perfect is more like view the parade from start to finish from above.