Not By Works

I have already shared my experience of falling and walking in the flesh with eternally grateful, so you can rest assured that I don’t have a problem handling that possibility🙂

But we can encourage one another by reminding one another that “He is able to keep you from falling”, right?

I agree with her assertions on salvation. I don’t use terms like Lordship salvation, and I don’t know who she is talking about when she says “prove your salvation”

I’ve never heard anyone say that we have to prove our salvation. I would never say that personally.

And there is not guarantee will walk in the Spirit, and if we die in that state..... we are still saved.

And not "walking in the Spirit" does not always mean a life of rampant sin ... it can simply be not living within the riches of God's grace.... and being good by one's one effort... finishing in the flesh what was started in the Spirit.

i have heard people say that in this thread😅
many times....


never you of course

but others....

I agree with her assertions on salvation. I don’t use terms like Lordship salvation, and I don’t know who she is talking about when she says “prove your salvation”

Trust me, this slave of Jesus Christ - my Lord and Savior - would NEVER laugh at the Gospel.

You mean you really don’t see what I’m laughing at??

Trust me, this slave of Jesus Christ - my Lord and Savior - would NEVER laugh at the Gospel.

You mean you really don’t see what I’m laughing at??

I have read what you have written......the gospel you follow and peddle is not found in scripture....Make no mistake what you peddle is your own carnival cruise false gospel........and I know fully well what you are laughing at.....!!

If you were truly honest with yourself, verse 29 should settle the matter once and for all.

I am speaking in general... and I believe that Jacob Prasch is of that mindset.

And going back to Hebrews 3:16 which is not a descriptive passage of the perseverance of the saints but rather once again an exhortation.

Hebrews 3:1-6 between Christ and believers is not salvation from hell but being a faithful vessel for God in each person’s sphere of priestly service and ministry.

Just as Christ has been faithful as our High Priest in service where the Father placed Him, even so Christians must also persevere in faithfulness in our sphere of service as believers.

Loss of salvation is not in view in verse 28-29.

Hebrews 3:16? I think you mean Hebrews 3:14, right?

Hebrews 3;16 is talking about Israelites who failed to enter the rest

sorry a typo there... Yes it was Hebrews 3:6 you stated demonstrated perseverance correct?

Well lets look at it:

Hebrews 10v28-31
28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” [g]says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Now I realise that this passage doesn't fit your doctrine. That's because your doctrine is wrong.

But don't come and change the plain meaning of this. That would just be disingenuous.

Amen! In Hebrews 3:14, we read - For we have become [past tense Greek verb, gegonamen, meaning we have become already] partakers of Christ, (demonstrative evidence) if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end.

*Notice that the wording is not - "and you will become partakers of Christ (future indicative) if you (future indicative) hold the beginning of your confidence steadfast to the end. It is rather - "you have been, and now are, partakers of Christ, (demonstrative evidence) if in the future you hold fast the beginning of your confidence steadfast to the end.

What about the faltering Hebrews who end up departing from God after beginning with some level of confidence and profession of loyalty, but then later? Future perseverance is proof of genuine conversion.

Not exactly what I said. I agree with the way Dcontroversal and Mailmandan explained Hebrews 3:6.

I think the argument they use here is sanctified does not really mean a saved person. They pick out a definition and usage of sanctified (from Strong's concordance, I guess) that protects their doctrinal presupposition, even though the context plainly defines the meaning and definition of sanctified being used. Very disingenuous indeed! It's hard for me to think a Christian would do that.........close their eyes to obvious truth. But it seems to happen a lot among Christians (thanks again, Calvin). Scary stuff (for them).

Here's lots of context for those of you out there who are interested in seeing what the passage is really saying sanctified means.

8After saying above, “SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS AND WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED, NOR HAVE YOU TAKEN PLEASURE in them” (which are offered according to the Law), 9then He said, “BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, 13waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET. 14For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. 15And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying,

16“THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM
AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:
I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART,
AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM,”
He then says,

17“AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS
I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE.”

18Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.

19Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; 24and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, 25not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

26For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. 28Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know Him who said, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY.” And again, “THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE.” 31It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

32But remember the former days, when, after being enlightened, you endured a great conflict of sufferings, 33partly by being made a public spectacle through reproaches and tribulations, and partly by becoming sharers with those who were so treated. 34For you showed sympathy to the prisoners and accepted joyfully the seizure of your property, knowing that you have for yourselves a better possession and a lasting one. 35Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. 36For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.

Hebrews 10:8-36 NAS

Somehow 'sanctified' doesn't mean a saved person anymore by the time you get to vs.29. Disingenuous indeed.
What are once saved always saved people afraid of that keeps them from acknowledging these plain words of the Bible?

You don't make the fear of the truth of being able to lose your salvation go away by closing your eyes to it in the Bible. You make that fear go away by continuing to believe in Jesus all the way to the end of your life, just as the Bible tells you to do. Do that and you have nothing to fear. On the other hand, change the meaning of what the Bible has to say.....well.....you've got plenty to be afraid of.